BF2S Forums European-Constitution now one step closer to fullfillment

Belgium voted "yes" ..
LOL, no seriously; I think that an "All-European constitution" would be overall a good thing.
It will probably make Europe stronger and more unified than it is now.
As I said before in many other posts; Europe has got to start coming out to the world as one voice.
As least if we truly want to be heard.

D34TH_D34L3R wrote:

Belgium voted "yes" ..
LOL, no seriously; I think that an "All-European constitution" would be overall a good thing.
It will probably make Europe stronger and more unified than it is now.
As I said before in many other posts; Europe has got to start coming out to the world as one voice.
As least if we truly want to be heard.

Now if thats the case, Why have Different countries with different laws? Just wondering, because this sounds like Almost another USSR, you know, other countries within the whole, abideing to one set of standards. Will each country still have there own constitutions or whatever? Does this mean that seprate countries constitutions will be null and void? If so, Then why would this be a good idea?

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

D34TH_D34L3R wrote:

Belgium voted "yes" ..
LOL, no seriously; I think that an "All-European constitution" would be overall a good thing.
It will probably make Europe stronger and more unified than it is now.
As I said before in many other posts; Europe has got to start coming out to the world as one voice.
As least if we truly want to be heard.

Now if thats the case, Why have Different countries with different laws? Just wondering, because this sounds like Almost another USSR, you know, other countries within the whole, abideing to one set of standards. Will each country still have there own constitutions or whatever? Does this mean that seprate countries constitutions will be null and void? If so, Then why would this be a good idea?

Of course each country should keep on governing it's own people.
But I do not think that an "All-European constitution" is a bad thing.
This doesn't necissarily means that the nations can't keep on governing it's own, with their own leaders etc.
But I do think it would be a good thing if the Europeans would become more unified, and that Europe's voice into the world would become rather something more as one voice. Than all different voices.
Because now, America seems to have some sort of monopoly on deciding what to do with the rest of the world.
If Europe would come out as one voice. At least then, America would have to start truly listening what we say.
At least, that 's my opinion..
Of course you could never predict what would happen until it happens.

wo does anyone have a cliff's notes version? what exactly does it do?

TigerXtrm wrote:

We (Netherlands) are negative about it because so far we've always been the bitch of Europe (for some odd reason for have to contribute almost twice as much as other countries to the EU for example) and with the constitution many feel that it will only make things worse. Europe has been doing fine so far but for some reason the people in the high chairs want us to be a second America. United under one flag and one currency and one law. IMO that's a very bad idea and it shouldn't be done.

I'm glad that I can tell you, your fears are not valid. The Netherlands may have been bitched the one or the other time, since they are in from the very beginning onward and they're not the poorest country to contribute.
And: Europe will never be like the US of A, rather like the UN just smaller and geographically of a higher density. Also, Europeans usually don't got that strong feeling of being Europeans above everything else - we're still independent countries.
As to your fears about the common laws: The European constitution is an advantage, concerning political development and stability, as well as economical unification making it easier to overview standards of law and trade making the EU a more balanced market.
Believe me, usually they don't send the fools to make decisions within the EU. All new achievements would of course be based on reasonable arguments, with unification here or there, but not many of us would really lose their 'freedom' - whereas a lot of people could win comfort.
All in all, I think it's not just a business matter. About 60-70% of all laws we're having are being made by the EU anyway, so why shouldn't we put the same fundamentals to the rest of our own decisions, that wouldn't make our current constitutions invalid - but enhance them.

PS: Of course, the French had to be against it, pas vrai?

All the EU is doing is creating a whole new bunch of fucking politicians debating whether they should have fizzy or still water at their meetings about bla, which they will obvious have to have a meeting and debate about the meeting. Talks about talks about talks about fizzy water.

The socialist in me says its a good idea to bring the other poorer countries up to the same levels as the rest of us. Making us a stronger region who can compete with the new emerging supper powers of Russia and China and end the UK's Neo Con ass kissing.
The cynical capitalist in me, the capitalist who just got a huge tax bill this week says fuck you all, charity starts at home!!!!
The only benefit I saw to me was not having to use a passport within Europe and free trade in goods between countries. With the terror hysteria I can't even fly within the UK without a fucking passport and forget about transporting goods, there is limits on everything.
I'll be raising my confederate flag in my front garden!!, no sorry ill be getting my Polish slave/min wage worker to do it for me. /sarcasm.

yeah, technically each state even garrisons it's own armies and air forces. not just weak shit either,  talking B1-B bomber wings and all.

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-12-05 06:42:58)

CameronPoe wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Think of it like the US - a federation with federal laws and state laws.

US states have never existed as separate countries with their own sovereign constitutions like the members of the EU have.  I see the EU as a much larger undertaking than dividing states and provinces inside a single sovereign nation.

It's not a directly applicable analogy but close. In the veeerrrryyy beginning of the US of A there were individual states and territories that did band together as one single entity - E Pluribus Unum. The EU should be like a version of hte US where state control within is far far more powerful than the control that states have in the US, but will be loosely bound together by federal regulations nonetheless.

PS The EU is probably just a cynical ploy to surround Switzerland for the purpose of an invasion... nazi gold FTW!

Good point, I see where you're coming from.

Bernadictus wrote:

And we (the dutch) are against the law, because it would render our vote in Europe null.

a) no
b) you would be powered after the number of Dutch people, which is still the double of Austria. And even we wouldn't be nullified. You'd just lose some benefits (dunno which ones, and if there exist any) that you had since you were one of the founding nations.

kr@cker wrote:

so all it really is is just a trade agreement?

Well, there's more to the whole thing..

The Trade union is EEA (European Economic Area), EFTA is included in this.
Then there's the EMU (European Monetary Union) aka countries using the Euro.
And of course the Schengen Agreement (which enables travel without passport).
and many more..

What a constitution would do here would be to sum most unions and agreements up, right?

Last edited by DonFck (2006-12-05 09:32:42)

i love flawed reasoning.

Bernadictus wrote:

and generally annoy the European union

...you're saying this isn't the current state of affairs???