_lecro_
Banned
+4|6837
I'd just like to say that people who are saying, oh USA did more they better ZOmG!!

It was a joint operation that all nations fought to achieve


Russia coming in at the Germans from the East, The British Empire (Australia, India , Countless other places }  the USA the Canadians an French fighting on all fronts an the Norwegians stopped Hitler from creating a nuclear bomb, not to mention all the risistence movements in all other countrys
Superslim
BF2s Frat Brother
+211|7048|Calgary

Stormscythe wrote:

{BMF}*Frank_The_Tank wrote:

I believe the US, UK, Canada and Australia deserve just as much credit as the Soviets do.  If it werent for all of us, the Soviets would have collapsed most likely (no pun intended, because they did anyway later on).

And because of this -

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Mmm, yes Britain and thre US do deserve credit because they were also fighting a war with Germany on one of a few fronts.
The US and UK were fighting on more than just one front.  North Africa and Italy were some major points of battle as well.
IMHO, the US deserve no credit for any war they've been waging. They never had their mother land attacked by foreigners until 9/11/2001 - which in some way would justify the war on terrorism, but still not in this way. In WWII, the US sent hundreds of thousands of soldiers to die, only because they knew they could - later on - make profit from the money they had given to the denazified countries. Today, Germany would still have to pay compensational fees to the winning forces if this part of the contract hadn't been nullified.
Also, Italy doesn't deserve eny credits for they (once again) sold themselves and traited a regime with similar policies. (That doesn't mean it was wrong to fight against the 3rd Reich, neither is it hard ro understand why they didn't go with Germany, now that we know the outcome - but it's strange in comparison to what the 'politicians' in Italy did at the same time...)
The UK, however, do indeed deserve credits, for they were also attacked and more or less had to fight.

But this author may be right, I'm quite certain that WW2 was at least decided in Russia, either by Russian soldiers or by Russian land.
Forgot about pearl habour?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6761|North Carolina

venom6 wrote:

To Turquoise: Nope your wrong in some things.A lot of german,hungarian professors scientists were taken by the US troops to USA.They kinda stole them...they offered them to work for them in the usa for more money etc and ofc all professors said ok.Is Oppenheimer or Ede Teller american ?
Guess not..so clearly Usa did what he allways have done...brain stealing.
You're saying offering better work is a bad thing?  Sorry buddy, but if I can pay better than someone else, then I deserve better workers.

venom6 wrote:

All big american scientists are from some european country...
That's a very easy sentence to disprove, but I'll just throw one of them at you.  Carl Sagan.

venom6 wrote:

And about the Soviet Union you cant say your opinion coz u dont livd in it.You dont know how it was.
My country was pushed several times into mud....ww1,ww2,germans,soviets,communist dictature for over 40 years...so you have no idea what things happend here...
Oh really?  So, even though I've studied the Soviet Union for a few years, I can't comment on it?  Look, I know you have the advantage because of where you live, but can you honestly say that you think the Nazies would be significantly better rulers than the Communists?  I'm guessing you're not Jewish, are you?
ShowMeTheMonkey
Member
+125|7058
The way I see it evry single damn country won the war apart from Nazi Germany.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6761|North Carolina

_lecro_ wrote:

I'd just like to say that people who are saying, oh USA did more they better ZOmG!!

It was a joint operation that all nations fought to achieve


Russia coming in at the Germans from the East, The British Empire (Australia, India , Countless other places }  the USA the Canadians an French fighting on all fronts an the Norwegians stopped Hitler from creating a nuclear bomb, not to mention all the risistence movements in all other countrys
I can live with that.
D34TH_D34L3R
Member
+48|7173|Belgium

venom6 wrote:

To D34TH_D34L3R: Remember that France capitulated in 1940 and the german troops moved along the streets of Paris.
I know. There are even pictures of Hitler with some of his generals in front of the Eifel Tower.
And pictures of his troops marching down the Champs-d'Elysees (pardon me if I wrote it wrong, too lazy to look it up).

https://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/images/hitler_eiffel.jpg
What a ruining of a nice view..

Last edited by D34TH_D34L3R (2006-12-02 16:17:15)

l=l-Oneill-l=l
Member
+27|7193|Dundas, ONT, Canada
Being raised in USSR and learning history that been given to you over the years, you'll get a different perspective on who won the war over Nazi Germany.

In 1941 Germany attacked Soviet borders in mid July, about a few month they've signed non-aggression treaty with Stalin. Soviets where taking by a surprised, cause we thought we where safe. Some believed that war was inevitable but they expected to start around 43 or 44. But never the less we where at war. By the end of that year Hitler was on the steps of Capital of Soviet Union, Moscow. I've seen footage from that era when on November 7, 1941 soldiers of Red army marching on the parade and going straight to front lines to defend their home land from aggressors. And hungry, unequipped, disarmed solders stop a whole German Tank army right there and then. After that Red army start pushing  Germans back. US was helping with some equipment like cars plains, to be honest I don't know any thing about helping with weapons so I;m not going to say anything about it.

While Red army was fighting Germans on Easter front, Japan saw the opportunity to attack USSR from their side. So as you can see Red army was fighting two fronts too.

We also where helping Spain to fight their Fascists, in 1939 but where over powered by a strong support from Germans war machine.

I would like to say that wining that war was a effort of one particular Nation, but I would be wrong. US, Brits, Canadians and Australians made an sizable contribution to defeating Nazi Germany. Even though US, Canada and Britain didn't start European campaign till June of 1944, when at that time Red Army was already fighting in the middle of eastern Europe.

I'm not trying to blame any western nation for interring the war on Western front that late. England is a small county and realistically if they did that they would of been crashed in the instant. US and Australia was busy on their side of the world fig thing Japan. And also trying to kick Hitler out of Africa.

If any of you search the forums here on the same subject, you'd find that I said it before Hitler's worst mistake was attacking USSR. As any other aggressors who was trying to capture that land. We are just to big and there are more of us.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6761|North Carolina

l=l-Oneill-l=l wrote:

If any of you search the forums here on the same subject, you'd find that I said it before Hitler's worst mistake was attacking USSR. As any other aggressors who was trying to capture that land. We are just to big and there are more of us.
You make some good points, and I agree with this part the most.
BVC
Member
+325|7052
The Allies won the war.

That is all.
Mr.Casual
p-n*|3eergogglz
+136|6865|Minnesota eh

Pubic wrote:

The Allies won the war.

That is all.
Amen.
cl4u53w1t2
Salon-Bolschewist
+269|6829|Kakanien
And remember that Hitler lost 1/4 of his forces of the Eastern front only in the battle of Stalingrad, approx. 850k.
omg! where did u get your information from? there is so many bs in this thread but i will correct only one point:

in the battle of encirclement of stalingrad, 250.000 german soldiers had been encircled. 34.000 soldiers were flown out, 130.00 (by soviet allegation) went into war captivity.

and, the battle of stalingrad was NOT the decisive battle of ww2. nethertheless, it had huge psychological effects to both the axis and the allies.
cl4u53w1t2
Salon-Bolschewist
+269|6829|Kakanien

l=l-Oneill-l=l wrote:

While Red army was fighting Germans on Easter front, Japan saw the opportunity to attack USSR from their side. So as you can see Red army was fighting two fronts too.

japan never attacked the ussr in ww2!
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6937|the dank(super) side of Oregon

l=l-Oneill-l=l wrote:

While Red army was fighting Germans on Easter front, Japan saw the opportunity to attack USSR from their side. So as you can see Red army was fighting two fronts too.
sorry sweetie, the Soviets had a nonaggression pact with Japan.  It wasn't until the US developed and used and atomic weapon on Hiroshima that the Soviets broke the pact and attacked Japanese forces in China.  As I recall it was August 8th or 9th.
ReTox
Member
+100|6855|State of RETOXification
The retaking of Stalingrad helped turn the tide of the war for the Russians, but I think the actual eastern front was lost as soon as Hitler tried to fight in the winter.  The Russians were used to that, Germany... not so much.  The Tigers and Panzer tanks couldn't hack the cold, let alone the soldiers, and the Russians knew exactly how to deal with it and took the advantage easily.  After Stalingrad the Russians were able to pick up steam and push Germany way back.  Hitler lost all the ground it had taken years to gain in months.  The Barbarossa offensive, militarily, was a disaster, although it started out just as the axis planned it.

The fight on Russia's front was monumental in winning the war and millions of people lost there lives fighting it between 41 and 44.  Regardless of politics, without Russia, the second world war would have turned out a lot different and likely would have taken many more years.

With that said though, the invasion at Normandy is the largest and most impressive landing of any fighting force in Earth's recorded history.  Stop and think about that so the scope of it sinks in.  The largest invasion force in History!  More than the Romans, more than the Mongols, more than any other time.  Don't forget that within a year of that landing, the war was over.  The British, Canadian, and US lead fight on the western European front caused the Hitler Elite a lot of panic because of how fast they were able to make, and more importantly keep, ground.  A major part of that ability was from the underground via the French and Belgian resistance cells.

Bottom line is that all forces played pivotal and remarkable roles in winning the war.

Last edited by ReTox (2006-12-02 19:01:11)

Heavy_Guns_91
I hand out purple hearts like candy
+72|6759|Alberta, Canada
I know this is pretty vague... but try to think of it this way.
If a hockey team wins a game, there's not just one person getting the credit. The whole team worked as a team and won the game. Sure, people may say that one person did most of the work, but they were all trying to do the same thing.... No?



back on track with WWII
Yes. The Russians did do alot of fighting with the Germans.

But in my opinion, and probably many other's...

If Hitler did not decide to fight Russia, therefore keeping the fight on one front, he would have had a MUCH greater chance of winning the war.
R0lyP0ly
Member
+161|7010|USA

Stealth42o wrote:

The Russians had more causalities than the American, UK, France and Germans combined.  I think they get a lot of credit for what they did.  The war would have been lost without them.
And? Sorry that Americans and British don't make large, mostly unarmed, charges at enemy bunkers. Just because they had more casualties doesn't mean it wasn't, in part, their fault.
R0lyP0ly
Member
+161|7010|USA

ShowMeTheMonkey wrote:

The way I see it evry single damn country won the war apart from Nazi Germany.
exactly. especially Japan.
ReTox
Member
+100|6855|State of RETOXification

Heavy_Guns_91 wrote:

But in my opinion, and probably many other's...

If Hitler did not decide to fight Russia, therefore keeping the fight on one front, he would have had a MUCH greater chance of winning the war.
Absolutely!

If Hitler had of listened to his council he never would have attacked Stalin and the war would have changed drastically.

The horror book of Hitler's final solution would sickeningly have contained many many more pages of names for one thing.  The Russians knew what the Nazi driven German troops were capable of, their own commissars used many of the same tactics for motivation and "troop morale".  The Barbarossa offensive was barbaric in many senses, woman and children (even babies) were butchered, some raped and then killed.  It was nasty.  This was one of the reasons the Germans were determined to surrender to the allies, the Russians took a lot of revenge, and many say justly deserved.  It was also one of the reasons the Russians fought so hard

Still I'd like to think that even if Russia hadn't been attacked, that the allies would have found a way to reach Berlin and take care of business.  Maybe a million man "Market Garden" right onto Berlin after weeks of shelling and bombing?  It's also totally plausible that Hitler would have won the war and invaded and conquered Britain. 

If that had happened he could have then turn to aiding Japan in the Pacific as his U-Boats pretty much owned the Atlantic, even up to the end of the war they were still effective fighting machines.  Then the west would be looking at war on two fronts, the Pacific and Atlantic.  Hitler's decision to attack Russia may have cost him his 1000 year empire.

I'm glad we never followed that time-line.
R0lyP0ly
Member
+161|7010|USA

Turquoise wrote:

venom6 wrote:

To Turquoise: Nope your wrong in some things.A lot of german,hungarian professors scientists were taken by the US troops to USA.They kinda stole them...they offered them to work for them in the usa for more money etc and ofc all professors said ok.Is Oppenheimer or Ede Teller american ?
Guess not..so clearly Usa did what he allways have done...brain stealing.
You're saying offering better work is a bad thing?  Sorry buddy, but if I can pay better than someone else, then I deserve better workers.

venom6 wrote:

All big american scientists are from some european country...
That's a very easy sentence to disprove, but I'll just throw one of them at you.  Carl Sagan.

venom6 wrote:

And about the Soviet Union you cant say your opinion coz u dont livd in it.You dont know how it was.
My country was pushed several times into mud....ww1,ww2,germans,soviets,communist dictature for over 40 years...so you have no idea what things happend here...
Oh really?  So, even though I've studied the Soviet Union for a few years, I can't comment on it?  Look, I know you have the advantage because of where you live, but can you honestly say that you think the Nazies would be significantly better rulers than the Communists?  I'm guessing you're not Jewish, are you?
lol Turquoise. you didnt live it (apparently he did)
1) How do you steal people? Can you return them if they are defective? Or did we just steal their brain, leaving their body back in....Hungaria?
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7041|United States of America

Mr.Casual wrote:

Pubic wrote:

The Allies won the war.

That is all.
Amen.
What the crap. I said that like 2 or 3 pages ago and didn't get an "Amen".
R0lyP0ly
Member
+161|7010|USA
Back to a more self-centered thought -- i do think that America played the most vital role in the winning of the war-- not that of throwing the grenade, that of making sure its there in the first place. Supply was key.

UK fans: fewer pilots, fewer planes. Year or two more, and you guys would most likely be conquered or devastated
France / Resistance Fans: Pretend guns don't kill. US-supplied did.
FrankieSpankie3388
Hockey Nut
+243|6886|Boston, MA
Well I just think that the USA and UK people have the mentality, "We won the war" because we did. There was an alliance between USA, UK, and the USSR. We ALL won it. However, Americans just think "We won the war" not "All three of us won the war." Same with UK and I bet same with USSR, but how many Russian people do you honestly talk to about WWII?
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6836|Somewhere else

Look at the name "World War" 2..... as in a Global war. In one way or another, alot of different nation were involved...See again "world war".  Nuff said.

It was a global effort. Besides, who gives a shit. the point of the result of WW2 was the end of a fascist empire that slaughtered millions of innocent people. The haulocaust was ended. The Nazis were destroyed. Who needs the credit?
CyrusTheVirus
E PLURIBUS UNUM
+36|6829|United States of America
Look, it's like this: if it wasn't for the sacrifice made by Americans throughout the war, but particularly on D-Day and thereafter, all you Brits would be speaking either German or Russian right now. The US was the saviour. God bless America.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6957|132 and Bush

Mr.Casual wrote:

Who cares what the awnser is. They all helped, doesnt matter if one helped more.
We played a bigger part in defeating the Japanese.. "Kaboom" if you know what I mean.
It's not something to brag about by no means, but do you think the Germans would have continued after seeing what fell on Nagasaki?

Last edited by Kmarion (2006-12-02 20:06:26)

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