.99999999~ = 1!!!!

2006-11-30 13:52:05

#176

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6991|St. Andrews / Oslo

jimmanycricket wrote:
if 33.3* recuring is what we aretaking about right, if you are taking about 33.33333 then that is whjere you are going wrong,

33.3333333 recuring x 3 =99.9999 recuring

and as aready proved in many, many ways 99.9999recuring =100

=> 33.3 recuring x 3 = 100

that is where you guys are wrong. I will use the OPs version of proof

x = 0.99999~
10x = 9.9999~
9x = 9.000000
x = 1

This is wrong.

Why?

No matter how many 9's you have after the 'dot' on the first line, you will ALWAYS have one less when multiplying by 10 (second line).

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png

2006-11-30 13:58:05

#177

-=raska=-: Canada's French Frog; +123|6884|Quebec city, Canada

I think that people deny that 0,99~ = 1 because they dont understand limits. I dont know how to explain it, but in 0,99~, the difference between 1 and 0,999... is infinitely small, not "PRETTY SMALL OMG IVE NEVER SEEN THAT SMALL" or "omg the difference is microscopic!!", its infinitely small, therefore, the difference is zero, if you understand the concept of limits.

so 0,99~ = 1

if you still deny this, try to read a bit about limits, I think you will accept the fact then.

2006-11-30 14:01:58

#178

zeidmaan: Member; +234|6673|Vienna

Jenspm if you have an infinite number of, lets say 9s. And you "remove" a gazzilion of gazzilions of 9s. You will still have infinite number of 9s.

Think of it like this.
If you substract one number with the same number you get 0
1-1=0
2-2=0
3-3=0 etc.
1-0.99999...(infinite number of 9s) = 0,0000000000...(infinite number of 0s)1

Since there is an infinite number of zeroes than the result is 0. Doesnt that mean they have the same value?

It is hard to accept but so is the fact that you can have an INFINITE ammount of numbers (all positive, >0) added together that will never equall 1. No mather how much time you keep adding they will always be <1.

Last edited by zeidmaan (2006-11-30 14:09:59)

2006-11-30 14:06:51

#179

jimmanycricket: EBC Member; +56|6914|Cambridge, England

zeidmaan wrote:
Jenspm if you have an infinite number of, lets say 9s. And you "remove" a gazzilion of gazzilions of 9s. You will still have infinite number of 9s.

Its useless zeidmaan, i said that like 10 posts ago, but some people are just not willing to accept they are wrong.

2006-11-30 14:07:08

#180

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6991|St. Andrews / Oslo

zeidmaan wrote:
Jenspm if you have an infinite number of, lets say 9s. And you "remove" a gazzilion of gazzilions of 9s. You will still have infinite number of 9s.

1 = 1.00~

0.99~ is definately not the same as 1.00~

Even if the difference is smaller than you can ever imagine, there is still a difference

Last edited by Jenspm (2006-11-30 14:08:12)

2006-11-30 14:08:50

#181

Gawwad: My way or Haddaway!; +212|6943|Espoo, Finland

Jenspm wrote:
Gawwad wrote:
Jenspm wrote:
Urm, no it is not.

look at it this way -

When you divide 100 by 33.333 you get 3,0003 something something (aka not a whole number).
When you divide 33.333 by 11.111 you get 3. a whole number; no infinities.

1/3 means that the "bottom number" is exactly 3 times as big as the "top number" (sorry, can't remember the names for these in english). 33.333 is exactly 3 times as big as 11.111. As I said above, 100 is not exactly three times as big as 3.33333~
Why would you want to change the number we're talking about completely?
100/33.333~ can never equal to 1/3 nor 0.333~ or 3.333~

And 1/3 is 0.333~

I would like to know where you get your facts.
I was trying to show that 33.33333~ x 3 IS NOT 100 and therfore 33.3333/100 IS NOT 1/3*

33.333~ x 3 is 99.999~ = 100
1/3 = 0.333~
10/3 = 3.333~
100/3 = 33.333~

Get a calculator and check it out your self for fucks sake...

1/3 = 0.333~ (depends on calculator how many digits are shown)
Store the answer. In this case it will be stored to the letter A
A/1 (0.333~/1) = 0.333~ convert to fractions -> 1/3

*Multiply the whole thing with 100 for the fun of it!

100/3 = 33.333~
Store it again.
B/100 (33.333~/100) = 0.333~ -> 1/3

Last edited by Gawwad (2006-11-30 14:09:22)

2006-11-30 14:09:28

#182

-=raska=-: Canada's French Frog; +123|6884|Quebec city, Canada

Jenspm wrote:
zeidmaan wrote:
Jenspm if you have an infinite number of, lets say 9s. And you "remove" a gazzilion of gazzilions of 9s. You will still have infinite number of 9s.
1 = 1.00~

0.99~ is definately not the same as 1.00~

Even if the difference is smaller than you can ever imagine, there is still a difference

You dont understand limits, thats all...

Last edited by -=raska=- (2006-11-30 14:10:37)

2006-11-30 14:11:43

#183

Chief_(OwNaGe): Member; +46|6702

jenspm.. this symbol: ~ means infinite numbers...so you cant use the number 33.333 because it ends right there

2006-11-30 14:13:51

#184

jimmanycricket: EBC Member; +56|6914|Cambridge, England

Jenspm wrote:
jimmanycricket wrote:
if 33.3* recuring is what we aretaking about right, if you are taking about 33.33333 then that is whjere you are going wrong,

33.3333333 recuring x 3 =99.9999 recuring

and as aready proved in many, many ways 99.9999recuring =100

=> 33.3 recuring x 3 = 100
that is where you guys are wrong. I will use the OPs version of proof

x = 0.99999~
10x = 9.9999~
9x = 9.000000
x = 1

This is wrong.

Why?

No matter how many 9's you have after the 'dot' on the first line, you will ALWAYS have one less when multiplying by 10 (second line).

OK,OK assuming you are correct 1/3 multiplyed by 10 dosn't equal 10/3 When this is obviously true.

Why YOU are wrong ( this is the world of maths as you put it)

land of Jenspm wrote:
1/3 = 0.333~
0.333~ x 10 = 3.333 with lots of zeros but not an infinate amount of them
10/3 =3.333~
as 3.333 with lots of zeros on dosnt equal 3.333~
1/3 x 10 dosnt equal 10/3

You are wrong
0.333~ x 10 = 3.333 ~

2006-11-30 14:15:00

#185

zeidmaan: Member; +234|6673|Vienna

(I added this to my previous post but there were already bunch of replies)
Think of it like this.
If you substract one number with the same number you get 0
1-1=0
2-2=0
3-3=0 etc.
1-0.99999...(infinite number of 9s) = 0,0000000000...(infinite number of 0s)1

Since there is an infinite number of zeroes than the result is 0. Doesnt that mean they have the same value?

It is hard to accept but so is the fact that you can have an INFINITE ammount of numbers (all positive, >0) added together that will never equall 1. No mather how much time you keep adding they will always be <1.

2006-11-30 14:16:37

#186

Gawwad: My way or Haddaway!; +212|6943|Espoo, Finland

-=raska=- wrote:
Jenspm wrote:
zeidmaan wrote:
Jenspm if you have an infinite number of, lets say 9s. And you "remove" a gazzilion of gazzilions of 9s. You will still have infinite number of 9s.
1 = 1.00~

0.99~ is definately not the same as 1.00~

Even if the difference is smaller than you can ever imagine, there is still a difference
You dont understand limits, thats all...

Yes, that's the problem with him.

Mathematics is a sience that is created by man and is based on rules and agreements. One of the agreements is how infinity works in mathematics. An example of it is that 0.999~ = 1. That IS it. You cannot prove it wrong since it is a made up rule. Math wasn't there, it was CREATED.

2006-11-30 14:18:27

#187

Mong0ose: Will it blend?; +24|6744|UK

"If you subtract x from 10x, you get 9.00000~, as in the equation 10x - x = 9.00000~"

Theres the flaw: 10x-x = 9x not 9.00000~ - there is a difference

Mathematically, it is impossible to prove that 1 = 0.99999, unless of course you break all the laws of algebra, including basic BODMAS

2006-11-30 14:21:34

#188

Chief_(OwNaGe): Member; +46|6702

Mong0ose wrote:
Theres the flaw: 10x-x = 9x not 9.00000~ - there is a difference

thats right according to algebra...but from common sense wouldnt you think that x - x = 0 ?

2006-11-30 14:25:13

#189

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6991|St. Andrews / Oslo

Gawwad wrote:
Jenspm wrote:
Gawwad wrote:

Why would you want to change the number we're talking about completely?
100/33.333~ can never equal to 1/3 nor 0.333~ or 3.333~

And 1/3 is 0.333~

I would like to know where you get your facts.
I was trying to show that 33.33333~ x 3 IS NOT 100 and therfore 33.3333/100 IS NOT 1/3*
33.333~ x 3 is 99.999~ = 100 Wrong. 100 > 99.999~
1/3 = 0.333~ On a calctulator, yes, but you will never get enough 3's to make a third
10/3 = 3.333~ See above.
100/3 = 33.333~ See above.

It all depends in what you believe in. I believe in that there is never a too small ammount. The calculator returns the answer 3.333~ when 10 is divided by 3 because it can't just say error.

If you believe that it is possible to reach an amount so small that there is absoutely no deferance (what raska is talking about), you guys are right. But I don't believe in that. I believe that 0.00~1 is still bigger than 0. Mathematics probably can't give you an exact answer, you have to chose what you believe in. Kinda like 'Who/what made the first thing in the universe?" "what came first? the egg or the chicken?". Pick an answer and believe in it

anyways, I'm off to bed...

2006-11-30 14:25:27

#190

Mong0ose: Will it blend?; +24|6744|UK

Chief_(OwNaGe) wrote:
Mong0ose wrote:
Theres the flaw: 10x-x = 9x not 9.00000~ - there is a difference
thats right according to algebra...but from common sense wouldnt you think that x - x = 0 ?

Of course x - x equals 0 - thats the most basic algebra EVER

However lets say x=1

x-0.9999~ does not equal 0, hence by definition 0.9999~ does not equal 1

Game over

Edit - To give this cotext i am talking from a purely mathematical perspective - for all practical purposes 0.9999~ is equal to 1. Unless you define the number of significant figures you are working to, you could nver prove 1 = 0.9999~ mathematically

Last edited by Mong0ose (2006-11-30 14:28:02)

2006-11-30 14:27:05

#191

Gawwad: My way or Haddaway!; +212|6943|Espoo, Finland

Mong0ose wrote:
"If you subtract x from 10x, you get 9.00000~, as in the equation 10x - x = 9.00000~"

Theres the flaw: 10x-x = 9x not 9.00000~ - there is a difference

Mathematically, it is impossible to prove that 1 = 0.99999, unless of course you break all the laws of algebra, including basic BODMAS

1 =/= 0.99999
0.999~ = 1

x = 0.999~
10x = 9.999~
10x - x = 9x
9.999~ - 0.999~ = 9

[Infinity - Infinity = 0]

0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ - 0.999~ = 9
^ 9x ^

2006-11-30 14:27:55

#192

zeidmaan: Member; +234|6673|Vienna

ok here gous again
x = 0,99999...
10x = 9,999999...

10x - x = 9,9999999...
- 0,9999999....
-------------------
= 9,0000000....

Last edited by zeidmaan (2006-11-30 14:28:33)

2006-11-30 14:32:24

#193

Gawwad: My way or Haddaway!; +212|6943|Espoo, Finland

Jenspm wrote:
Gawwad wrote:
Jenspm wrote:
I was trying to show that 33.33333~ x 3 IS NOT 100 and therfore 33.3333/100 IS NOT 1/3*
33.333~ x 3 is 99.999~ = 100 Wrong. 100 > 99.999~
1/3 = 0.333~ On a calctulator, yes, but you will never get enough 3's to make a third Should have added that the calculator uses the number 0.333~. The number shown on the screen is limited by the screen size. Thought it was obvious already.
10/3 = 3.333~ See above.
100/3 = 33.333~ See above.
It all depends in what you believe in. I believe in that there is never a too small ammount. The calculator returns the answer 3.333~ when 10 is divided by 3 because it can't just say error.

If you believe that it is possible to reach an amount so small that there is absoutely no deferance (what raska is talking about), you guys are right. But I don't believe in that. I believe that 0.00~1 is still bigger than 0. Mathematics probably can't give you an exact answer, you have to chose what you believe in. Kinda like 'Who/what made the first thing in the universe?" "what came first? the egg or the chicken?". Pick an answer and believe in it

anyways, I'm off to bed...

Mathematics is a sience that is created by man and is based on rules and agreements. One of the agreements is how infinity works in mathematics. An example of it is that 0.999~ = 1. That IS it. You cannot prove it wrong since it is a made up rule. Math wasn't there, it was CREATED.

I could compare your arguments to arguing the rules of footbal.

If you still continue to argue. I will leave you at it, since I don't really care.
You will find out later if you study math.

Last edited by Gawwad (2006-11-30 14:32:58)

2006-11-30 14:32:24

#194

Mong0ose: Will it blend?; +24|6744|UK

Gawwad wrote:
Mong0ose wrote:
"If you subtract x from 10x, you get 9.00000~, as in the equation 10x - x = 9.00000~"

Theres the flaw: 10x-x = 9x not 9.00000~ - there is a difference

Mathematically, it is impossible to prove that 1 = 0.99999, unless of course you break all the laws of algebra, including basic BODMAS
1 =/= 0.99999
0.999~ = 1

x = 0.999~
10x = 9.999~
10x - x = 9x
9.999~ - 0.999~ = 9

[Infinity - Infinity = 0]

0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ - 0.999~ = 9
^ 9x ^

Techincally that is not true - by definition infinity is an undefinable number, hence infinity - infinity does not equal 0 - you are just assuming it does

As a result, 9.999~ - 0.999~ does not equal 9 by the same logic, since you are assuming an infnite number of 9's follows the decimal point

2006-11-30 14:34:55

#195

Gawwad: My way or Haddaway!; +212|6943|Espoo, Finland

Mong0ose wrote:
Gawwad wrote:
Mong0ose wrote:
"If you subtract x from 10x, you get 9.00000~, as in the equation 10x - x = 9.00000~"

Theres the flaw: 10x-x = 9x not 9.00000~ - there is a difference

Mathematically, it is impossible to prove that 1 = 0.99999, unless of course you break all the laws of algebra, including basic BODMAS
1 =/= 0.99999
0.999~ = 1

x = 0.999~
10x = 9.999~
10x - x = 9x
9.999~ - 0.999~ = 9

[Infinity - Infinity = 0]

0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ - 0.999~ = 9
^ 9x ^
Techincally that is not true - by definition infinity is an undefinable number, hence infinity - infinity does not equal 0 - you are just assuming it does

As a result, 9.999~ - 0.999~ does not equal 9 by the same logic, since you are assuming an infnite number of 9's follows the decimal point

x - x = 0 Always. EDIT: Infinity - Infinity is undefined

You can only understand math if you study it. The rules are created, they didn't exist before humans. It's like the rules of footbal, you can't argue them.

I splitted the numbers apart to make it easier for you to see that 0.999~ - 0.999~ = 0

Last edited by Gawwad (2006-11-30 14:39:45)

2006-11-30 14:36:20

#196

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6840|SE London

Mong0ose wrote:
Gawwad wrote:
Mong0ose wrote:
"If you subtract x from 10x, you get 9.00000~, as in the equation 10x - x = 9.00000~"

Theres the flaw: 10x-x = 9x not 9.00000~ - there is a difference

Mathematically, it is impossible to prove that 1 = 0.99999, unless of course you break all the laws of algebra, including basic BODMAS
1 =/= 0.99999
0.999~ = 1

x = 0.999~
10x = 9.999~
10x - x = 9x
9.999~ - 0.999~ = 9

[Infinity - Infinity = 0]

0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ + 0.999~ - 0.999~ = 9
^ 9x ^
Techincally that is not true - by definition infinity is an undefinable number, hence infinity - infinity does not equal 0 - you are just assuming it does

As a result, 9.999~ - 0.999~ does not equal 9 by the same logic, since you are assuming an infnite number of 9's follows the decimal point

It is true. In exactly the same way that infinity*0=1.

2006-11-30 14:37:34

#197

-=raska=-: Canada's French Frog; +123|6884|Quebec city, Canada

I think so, that infinity - infinity = 0

but infinity - "(omg big number ive never seen that big)^googleplex" = infinity.

2006-11-30 14:38:26

#198

Mong0ose: Will it blend?; +24|6744|UK

"It is true. In exactly the same way that infinity*0=1."

LMAO - i wont dignify that with a mathematical response

2006-11-30 14:38:35

#199

Gawwad: My way or Haddaway!; +212|6943|Espoo, Finland

Uhmm.. I correct one thing. I blame my memory Infinity - Infinity cannot be calculated
But still 0.999~ - 0.999~ = 0

Last edited by Gawwad (2006-11-30 14:40:46)

2006-11-30 14:41:04

#200

Mong0ose: Will it blend?; +24|6744|UK

-=raska=- wrote:
I think so, that infinity - infinity = 0

but infinity - "(omg big number ive never seen that big)^googleplex" = infinity.

Thats the point - becuase there is no mathematical limit to infinity you can assume infinity - infinity = 0

If that were true, infinity * infinity^googleplex would not equal infinity

BF2S Forums .99999999~ = 1!!!!

jimmanycricket wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Gawwad wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

jimmanycricket wrote:

land of Jenspm wrote:

-=raska=- wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

Mong0ose wrote:

Gawwad wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Gawwad wrote:

Chief_(OwNaGe) wrote:

Mong0ose wrote:

Mong0ose wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Gawwad wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Gawwad wrote:

Mong0ose wrote:

Mong0ose wrote:

Gawwad wrote:

Mong0ose wrote:

Mong0ose wrote:

Gawwad wrote:

Mong0ose wrote:

-=raska=- wrote:

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