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2006-11-29 07:53:11
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|6840
http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?for … tentId=387

The USA is in the middle of making an estimated $128 million dollar facility to research the manipulation of deadly biological pathogens and the technology required to effectively use them. This facility will be using the highest grade of containment, biosafety level 4. They are actually therefore planning to take dangerous and deadly pathogens and tinker with them to make them even more deadly. They are also planning on studying aerosol dispersion and other delivery systems. They claim that this is being done so protective measures can be developed. The work they will be doing has the potential to threaten the entire human race, could spark a new arms race and if the information they gather was ever stolen or sold would be the creator of the threat they are supposedly trying to counter.

This goes directly contravenes the 1972 Biological and Toxic Weapons Convention.

Add to this the fact that the US still use white phosphorus, which is a chemical weapon in all but name.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 440664.stm

Oh and they're still developing the ballistic missile interceptor program which goes against the Anti-Ballistic missile treaty.

They also tried to develop `bunker-buster` mini-nukes.



They then throw a fit at Iran for developing nuclear technology against international treaties........
2006-11-29 07:56:36
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|6749|Omaha, Nebraska
But this is US OF A... we can do whatever we want right?

Me personally I would rather see the 1 billion dollar missles and this 128 million go to cancer research. Instead of chasing shadows.

Last edited by splixx (2006-11-29 07:58:10)

2006-11-29 08:03:26
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6377|Columbus, Ohio
Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
2006-11-29 08:09:43
JahManRed
wank
+646|6638|IRELAND

Who said 9/11 was the last act by a bunch of terrorists on American soil.
2006-11-29 08:10:18
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6745|California

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
Yeah, kind alike we did with nuclear research.

We develop them as our own weapons first, then think of defense afterwards.

Nothing wrong with it, but be realistic when you label something.

Ie; in order for us to create a missile shield, we had to first develop missiles. Defense arose from an offensive weapon.
2006-11-29 08:11:09
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|6840

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
So when China follows suit and sets up it's own biological weapon development and testing centre you'll be just fine with that?

When some bloke decides to defect with the information from the centre and sells it to terrorists who use the information to make then set off a biological weapon in times square, that's not much of a problem to you? Bioweapons are a complete s**t to develop, study and deploy, well outside the means of most countries, let alone individual nutjobs. The most realistic way for a nutjob to gain the ability to do this is to nick the information from somewhere....
2006-11-29 08:13:30
JahManRed
wank
+646|6638|IRELAND

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
Jessuuus man can you not admit that maybe your government........... just maybe does somethings wrong? Blind-patriotism is the opposite to patriotism. You should be questioning everything your government does (I do to the UK). Its a citizens job. Not to follow blindly, nodding your head to everything they say and do.
2006-11-29 08:14:27
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6377|Columbus, Ohio

JahManRed wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
Jessuuus man can you not admit that maybe your government........... just maybe does somethings wrong? Blind-patriotism is the opposite to patriotism. You should be questioning everything your government does (I do to the UK). Its a citizens job. Not to follow blindly, nodding your head to everything they say and do.
Fine.  Don't research the shit.  Let someone else figure it out in a uncontrolled enviroment.  You people are such cunts.
2006-11-29 08:18:51
JahManRed
wank
+646|6638|IRELAND

usmarine2007 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
Jessuuus man can you not admit that maybe your government........... just maybe does somethings wrong? Blind-patriotism is the opposite to patriotism. You should be questioning everything your government does (I do to the UK). Its a citizens job. Not to follow blindly, nodding your head to everything they say and do.
Fine.  Don't research the shit.  Let someone else figure it out in a uncontrolled enviroment.  You people are such cunts.
Why do you post this in the debate and serious talk? If you want people to agree with you, you have come to the wrong place buddy. There are people here from outside the cocoon you live in that have different view points to yourself. Why bother even starting this thread if you are going to label anyone who disagrees with you a cunt?
Very Mature.
2006-11-29 08:20:38
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6377|Columbus, Ohio

JahManRed wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:


Jessuuus man can you not admit that maybe your government........... just maybe does somethings wrong? Blind-patriotism is the opposite to patriotism. You should be questioning everything your government does (I do to the UK). Its a citizens job. Not to follow blindly, nodding your head to everything they say and do.
Fine.  Don't research the shit.  Let someone else figure it out in a uncontrolled enviroment.  You people are such cunts.
Why do you post this in the debate and serious talk? If you want people to agree with you, you have come to the wrong place buddy. There are people here from outside the cocoon you live in that have different view points to yourself. Why bother even starting this thread if you are going to label anyone who disagrees with you a cunt?
Very Mature.
I did not start this thread.  Are you blind?  I do live outside of a cocoon.  Saying that I am not thinking and just blindly following my govt. is calling me stupid and talking down to me.
2006-11-29 08:34:50
D34TH_D34L3R
Member
+48|6827|Belgium

usmarine2007 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Fine.  Don't research the shit.  Let someone else figure it out in a uncontrolled enviroment.  You people are such cunts.
Why do you post this in the debate and serious talk? If you want people to agree with you, you have come to the wrong place buddy. There are people here from outside the cocoon you live in that have different view points to yourself. Why bother even starting this thread if you are going to label anyone who disagrees with you a cunt?
Very Mature.
I did not start this thread.  Are you blind?  I do live outside of a cocoon.  Saying that I am not thinking and just blindly following my govt. is calling me stupid and talking down to me.
That doesn't give you the right to call someone "a cunt" for critizising you.
You might want to try and act a bit mature and recognize that other people have other opinions than you?
And many people are of the opinion that over 50% of the Americans just blindly follow their leader.
(I'm not saying I am of that opinion, I 'm just saying that a lot of people say that.)

Last edited by D34TH_D34L3R (2006-11-29 08:35:24)

2006-11-29 08:39:43
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6456|The Land of Scott Walker
Seems to me usmarine2007 is right.  Studying these things in a controlled environment in an attempt to develop defense against such attacks is the only prudent thing to do.  It has nothing to do with anybody blindly agreeing with anything. 

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
So when China follows suit and sets up it's own biological weapon development and testing centre you'll be just fine with that?

When some bloke decides to defect with the information from the centre and sells it to terrorists who use the information to make then set off a biological weapon in times square, that's not much of a problem to you? Bioweapons are a complete s**t to develop, study and deploy, well outside the means of most countries, let alone individual nutjobs. The most realistic way for a nutjob to gain the ability to do this is to nick the information from somewhere....
China will not follow suit, they don’t have the technology.  Until some Democrat president sells it to them.  Example: Clinton giving missile technology to China.  They could hardly get a missile off the ground before that.  Newsflash, bioweapons already exist.  If we don’t research how to protect against them, we’re beyond stupid. 

Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-11-29 08:40:38)

2006-11-29 08:44:08
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6377|Columbus, Ohio

D34TH_D34L3R wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:


Why do you post this in the debate and serious talk? If you want people to agree with you, you have come to the wrong place buddy. There are people here from outside the cocoon you live in that have different view points to yourself. Why bother even starting this thread if you are going to label anyone who disagrees with you a cunt?
Very Mature.
I did not start this thread.  Are you blind?  I do live outside of a cocoon.  Saying that I am not thinking and just blindly following my govt. is calling me stupid and talking down to me.
That doesn't give you the right to call someone "a cunt" for critizising you.
You might want to try and act a bit mature and recognize that other people have other opinions than you?
And many people are of the opinion that over 50% of the Americans just blindly follow their leader.
(I'm not saying I am of that opinion, I 'm just saying that a lot of people say that.)
Insult me by saying I am incapable of thought and blindly follow my govt, and I will call you a cunt.  I think that is fair.
2006-11-29 09:02:01
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6592|SE London

I think it's a bad idea. It's illegal. By not following international law and conventions the US makes a mockery of them. Then they have the audacity to criticise other nations who don't follow the rules. If you are going to impose sanctions on countries who develop nukes etc. you can't flout the same laws yourself, it's unspeakable hypocrisy.

Developing weapons to devlop countermeasures to them is nonsense. There is no need to research delivery systems for biological and chemical weapons from a defense perspective. Studying the substances themselves would be sufficient.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-11-29 09:02:35)

2006-11-29 09:04:49
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6529|Πάϊ

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
Oh yeah? How would you react if you heard this on Al Jazeera then?

Ahmadinejad wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in jalalabad square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
"NUKE the mofos!!!!" (wild guess)
ƒ³
2006-11-29 09:12:25
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6377|Columbus, Ohio
Not sure I understand all this " What if China or Iran did this" stuff.  Who says they don't already?  The Japs experimented on American POW's with chemical weapons during WWII, so to think China and Iran are not doing research on this is a little irresponsible.
2006-11-29 09:14:59
Stealth42o
She looked 18 to me officer
+175|6682
no
2006-11-29 09:15:57
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6529|Πάϊ

usmarine2007 wrote:

Not sure I understand all this " What if China or Iran did this" stuff.  Who says they don't already?  The Japs experimented on American POW's with chemical weapons during WWII, so to think China and Iran are not doing research on this is a little irresponsible.
Nobody says they do, and nobody says they don't. Let me break it down for you.

According to your thinking, if you do it it's ok. If they do it its bad.

That does not make any sense.

PS: There, you ruined my joke (^^^2 posts up)  Happy now?

Last edited by oug (2006-11-29 09:17:03)

ƒ³
2006-11-29 09:17:53
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6377|Columbus, Ohio

oug wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Not sure I understand all this " What if China or Iran did this" stuff.  Who says they don't already?  The Japs experimented on American POW's with chemical weapons during WWII, so to think China and Iran are not doing research on this is a little irresponsible.
Nobody says they do, and nobody says they don't. Let me break it down for you.

According to your thinking, if you do it it's ok. If they do it its bad.

That does not make any sense.

PS: There, you ruined my joke (^^^2 posts up)  Happy now?
I did not say that.  I said we should so we can respond better to an attack, in the US or anywhere in the world.
2006-11-29 09:25:11
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6501|Northern California

splixx wrote:

But this is US OF A... we can do whatever we want right?

Me personally I would rather see the 1 billion dollar missles and this 128 million go to cancer research. Instead of chasing shadows.
Yep.  And to quote a wise and witty bumper sticker "When the schools get all the funding they need and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to fund their bombs.."

But seriously...  I imagine this world and it's warfare changing drastically in a non-compulsive way.  Imagine if we did use our defense funding to cure the top 3 diseases of the world...and then gave it away for FREE to everyone??  Holy cow, right??  What if we used the hundreds of billions of dollars we blow and defense to flood the earth with free examination stations, treated and cured cancer for the millions around the world...What if we stopped AIDS and vaccinated everyone in Africa?  What if we showed genuine good will like that around the world..FREE of charge?  Would it be answered with terror?  What if some little group attacked us after that..do you think we'd even have to deploy our own troops to put down that threat?  Or would 100 nations around the world say "UH uh!! Oh no you didn't!!" and lay the smack down on them for us?  lol


Ok, so I dream too much.  BUt how about this?  Instead of focusing the spending on bio/chem/conventional/nuclear warfare, we start focusing on EMP warfare.  I'm trying to think of the movie....CORE I think it was where they had an EMP warfare device in Alaska that could be aimed through the planet and strike anywhere in the world and disable it.  While that's a joke, more realistic versions of it would be good.  If there's any city trying to attack us, imagine if we removed their ability to operate any vehicles, make any communications, or launch any weaponry requiring current.  Imagine instead of raining bombs down on a country for days or weeks before sending in ground forces, we put them into submission via EMP attacks that fry electronics, crippling them for a long, long time..while not killing anyone?

I'm sure hoping this is a pursuit of our government..it's the humane "taser" kind of warfare we need.  The best battles are the ones where nobody dies.  History is full of examples where unmatched, outnumbered forces find the achilles heel of their adversary and exploit it (like Iraq has done to us, like Russia did to Afghanistan).
2006-11-29 09:28:27
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6592|SE London

usmarine2007 wrote:

Not sure I understand all this " What if China or Iran did this" stuff.  Who says they don't already?  The Japs experimented on American POW's with chemical weapons during WWII, so to think China and Iran are not doing research on this is a little irresponsible.
What's irresponsible is flouting international law and agreements. You expect other nations to abide by international law when the US does not? Saying "They broke the rules, we're going to break them too" is a very childish approach. I have seen no evidence that Iran or China have been conducting chemical and biological weapons research (although I haven't looked for any).

Irresponsible is a very poor choice of wording for the end of your statement as well. Although it does seem very fitting considering your stance on the issue. Naive, would be a nicer word.
2006-11-29 09:29:45
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6377|Columbus, Ohio
I don't know why, but this discussion reminds me of this chick I knew a few years ago.  She was always going to protests to get rid of nukes and stuff like that.  Yet, she lived in a neighborhood which is suppled by nuclear power and drives a mustang.  Don't know why this made me think of that, but it did.
2006-11-29 09:29:59
Colfax
PR Only
+70|6654|United States - Illinois

oug wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Not sure I understand all this " What if China or Iran did this" stuff.  Who says they don't already?  The Japs experimented on American POW's with chemical weapons during WWII, so to think China and Iran are not doing research on this is a little irresponsible.
Nobody says they do, and nobody says they don't. Let me break it down for you.

According to your thinking, if you do it it's ok. If they do it its bad.

That does not make any sense.
Sure it does.  We aren't going to sell the technology to terrorists who in turn use it on civilians.  Iran shouldn't be trusted with this technology since they already support insurgent activities in Iraq.  Yeah lets let them research bio weapons to then use on our troops.  Great idea.  Or worse let the research and get the technology and use it on U.S. or European soil.
2006-11-29 09:33:27
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6657|Peoria
Protection against a bioweapon is kinda pointless. The point of a bioweapon is to make a germ so deadly you can't protect against it.

And here's the worst part. Even if the US is doing this to try and find a defense, that would be TERRIBLE, because it means the US would have the ability to prevent that weapon from being used against it's population, but could use it against others without fear.
2006-11-29 09:35:31
herrr_smity
Member
+156|6638|space command ur anus
grate make a new dooms day weapon, i guess nukes aren't good enuff

 

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