BF2S Forums Obama Pastor's 'Hate U.S.' Sermon

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

I would buy that argument if it were children's clothes, meat, fruits and vegetables that they were stealing, instead of cars, plasma tv's, and stereos for drug money or to pay off a booky.

Absolutely.  You can often determine quite clearly what is motivating a theft by what is stolen.  Materialistic and drug-related thieves get very little sympathy from me, but if the case actually does involve selling something for the money to provide for a family, then the act is certainly more understandable.  I'm not saying that it should be legal or permitted in any way, but it at least provides a context by which the actions can be understood.

I am sorry turquoise, i do not mean to be a pain in the ass with you tonite but I still gotta disagree.

If you have children and you still can't seem to find any motivation to do something with your life but choose to steal from someone else's children instead, you are still just as big a piece of shit not worth the cell you should inhabit.

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Masques wrote:

Even going beyond that (and I'm wearing my Social Scientist hat here) all you can say is that more individuals of a particular group are actually convicted of a crime. For it to be true that members of said group are more criminal you would have to believe that every person convicted of a crime in our criminal justice system is in fact guilty.

Touche...  another often overlooked principle.

nope, the ratio is the same unless you are saying there are NO other groups falsely imprisioned other than the one in question.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

my thing is this: what does it have to do with a discussion on barack obama. he brought it up on his own accord. why even bring up this statistic.

Kmarion wrote:

Booya? http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/ … wsletters/

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

couple this with the fact that he seems to be vehemently against barack obama for because of the racial views of those in his inner circle, but he has no problem supporting ron paul and and white supremacist baggage that brings along.  its not that hard to figure out the reasons why he doesnt like Obama.

Turquoise wrote:

The only thing I would suggest Obama do at this point is to further distance himself from this pastor.

Turquoise wrote:

The only reason I mention it is because it doesn't seem like Obama is doing that.

Turquoise wrote:

I know he denounced what the pastor said, but he still goes to that church, right?

Kmarion wrote:

san4 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You are right, what else would he say. You would be happier if he didn't speak out against his remarks? This type of attack is weak. When you can't finf anything real to smear a candidate, smear the people around him. Everyone is susceptible this type of asymmetrical attack.

This type of attack is very strong because Obama attended this crackpot's church for 20 years. That is a long time, and such a long association says something about Obama. The fact that Obama denounced everything his pastor said does not explain why he spent 20 years following a radical pastor.

No one else is susceptible to this type of attack because no one else running for President has such a long and close relationship with someone who has such radical views.

The statements in the OP were made recently.

It is weak because you are using the words of another person to make ambiguous conclusions about Obama's character. This is despite his open denouncement of the Pastor's statements. You are suggesting (by using another persons remarks) that Obama is racist.
Spoiler (highlight to read):
His Mom is White
If your line of logic wasn't so tragic it would be funny. The rest of your argument is based on presumptions. If you think that this is a "strong attack" then this discussion is a lost cause.
Spoiler (highlight to read):
Obama expanded his lead this weekend
I am really surprised at how easily people are manipulated during election season. Is it really that difficult to use common sense and to think for yourself? Ask yourself why these statements only surface when Barack is nearing the finish line... you know since a United States Senator has been listening to racist remarks for 20 years .

Kmarion wrote:

san4 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

The statements in the OP were made recently.

It is weak because you are using the words of another person to make ambiguous conclusions about Obama's character. This is despite his open denouncement of the Pastor's statements. You are suggesting (by using another persons remarks) that Obama is racist.
Spoiler (highlight to read):
His Mom is White
If your line of logic wasn't so tragic it would be funny. The rest of your argument is based on presumptions. If you think that this is a "strong attack" then this discussion is a lost cause.
Spoiler (highlight to read):
Obama expanded his lead this weekend
I am really surprised at how easily people are manipulated during election season. Is it really that difficult to use common sense and to think for yourself? Ask yourself why these statements only surface when Barack is nearing the finish line... you know since a United States Senator has been listening to racist remarks for 20 years .

I have suggested that Obama has radical views. The statements in the OP were made recently but they did not come out of nowhere. Obama's pastor didn't say "God Bless America" for 19 years and then all of a sudden say "God damn America" one day. Those comments came from his underlying radical and anti-American views, and I don't think he only developed those views in the last five years of his 40 year career.

This says something about Obama because he has been appreciating his pastor's radical views for 20 years. Why did he decide this church was the right one for him? The answer has to include the fact that he was comfortable with the pastor's radical and anti-American views. There were lots of other churches he could have identified with.

Obama can denounce his pastor's statements now, but that doesn't change the fact that he spent 20 years appreciating a pastor with radical views. Twenty years of commitment says more about Obama than his recent efforts to denounce the dozen or so "appalling" statements that we know about.

"Obama's pastor didn't say "God Bless America" for 19 years and then all of a sudden say "God damn America" one day.
Prove they were continuously made in Obama's presence.


You still haven't addressed the timing of this. You are adamantly standing by the idea that this has been happening for a long time, yet it goes completely unnoticed until now. Senators are very powerful people and they are constantly susceptible to political attacks. Give the voters of Illinois a little more credit.

..."but that doesn't change the fact that he spent 20 years appreciating a pastor with radical views.", you make jumps and conclusions without a single glance at Obama's own personal character. If this debate were in a court of law it would be tossed out in an instant due to lack of corroborating evidence. If you are going to suggest that a Senator is a "radical" and liar then you should really build your argument around a stronger foundation. Assumptions and hearsay are not enough to destroy a man character. Everyone deserves a chance to say how they personally feel on the issues.

The very idea that (any) elected United States Senator is Anti-American is a joke. Why would you serve a nation that you hate? Just pause for a minute and think about it.