BF2S Forums Why I Now Support the Patriot Act

usmarine wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

In all honesty, says who?

The 1st Amendment?

look at that the definition of the last word in your reply and think again

Your point?

sergeriver wrote:

Your point?

we can do what we want

yay for propaganda changing minds

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

wahabi fundamentalist are one little drop in a bucket full of assholes.   If you think wahabis are behind most of the world's islamic terror, you dont know jack.   quit singling them out as if they are the ones to defeat and everything will be gravy afterwards.  thats just not the case.

I agree that it won't solve the problem entirely, but it will send the message that if you fuck with us, you die.

pretty sure we sent that message in 2001.  didnt quite work out the way we wanted.  Sure they got the message and their reply was "So".

it wont solve any problem at all.  wahhabis are not the source of our problems.

you are too fixated with wahabis, its like you have tunnel vision.   its big bad world out there.  wahabis just seem to be the easier talking points on video game forums.

Let me ask this then.  How do you propose to solve this?  Staying in Iraq isn't really doing much other sucking away funds.

Turquoise wrote:

The time has come to stop trusting Saudi Arabia, and to point the guns at them with a simple ultimatum.  "Help us destroy Wahhabism, or we will destroy you."

While I agree, chances of that are pretty slim, considering we just gave them $20 Billion in smart bomb tech and other weapons.

Hard to pull a gun on your bed fellow.

But back to the OP
The only thing that separates Terrorists from any other psycho killer is we are scared shit-less of them. And now we let that fear completely take over our rational thought.

Why is it such a hassle for a federal agent to get a warrant? This isn't 24, a bomb is not on the line, and the time it takes a judge to sign a warrant won't determine life or death. If anything, the decider is whether people decide to act on all the intel they have. Maybe we should overhaul that before we start hacking at the constitution.

We had the intel we needed before 9/11, before we had the Patriot Act, but no one bothered to look into it. That was our problem, not lack of intel, but lack of the intelligence to use the intel.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

so taking control of all the muslims world most valued holy site is not significant.  you are being too ethnocentric.

Maybe I am.  Maybe I do believe that our culture is better than theirs, but that's another discussion altogether.

missing my point. 

but, since you agree that you are.  how can you enter a debate with an admitted ethnocentric point of view.   kinda setting yourself up for failure.   

and I like the way you imply that I believe their culture is better than ours, real slick, buts thats not the fucking point I was trying to make, at all.  look up the definition of ethnocentrism and look up the definition of debate and maybe, MAYBE youll understand what Im talking about.

Explain to me how we aren't better.  We have a better economy, we don't abuse our women to the same degree, we have more freedoms.

Seriously...  how are they better than us?  How are they even equal in a cultural sense?

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Maybe I am.  Maybe I do believe that our culture is better than theirs, but that's another discussion altogether.

missing my point. 

but, since you agree that you are.  how can you enter a debate with an admitted ethnocentric point of view.   kinda setting yourself up for failure.   

and I like the way you imply that I believe their culture is better than ours, real slick, buts thats not the fucking point I was trying to make, at all.  look up the definition of ethnocentrism and look up the definition of debate and maybe, MAYBE youll understand what Im talking about.

Explain to me how we aren't better.  We have a better economy, we don't abuse our women to the same degree, we have more freedoms.

Seriously...  how are they better than us?  How are they even equal in a cultural sense?

highlighted for the intellectually impaired.

chittydog wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

chittydog wrote:

Another point that I think needs to be made here is that you can't support Freedom of Religion and barring Muslims from immigrating at the same time.

Immigration restrictions have nothing to do with Freedom of Religion.  I'm not saying we should bar Muslims from practicing their faith, I just want to limit how many come here.

I don't see how that's unrelated. Let's bar all Protestants from immigrating too. This selective discrimination would be a direct, blatant violation. It's almost as bad as barring an entire race.

You see it as bad, I see it as practical.  Besides, look at how strict immigration is in most First World countries.  We could stand to follow their example.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

missing my point. 

but, since you agree that you are.  how can you enter a debate with an admitted ethnocentric point of view.   kinda setting yourself up for failure.   

and I like the way you imply that I believe their culture is better than ours, real slick, buts thats not the fucking point I was trying to make, at all.  look up the definition of ethnocentrism and look up the definition of debate and maybe, MAYBE youll understand what Im talking about.

Explain to me how we aren't better.  We have a better economy, we don't abuse our women to the same degree, we have more freedoms.

Seriously...  how are they better than us?  How are they even equal in a cultural sense?

highlighted for the intellectually impaired.

Be as snide as you like GS, but I've caught you.  You agree with me on the cultural thing, so where's your argument?

Protecus wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

The time has come to stop trusting Saudi Arabia, and to point the guns at them with a simple ultimatum.  "Help us destroy Wahhabism, or we will destroy you."

While I agree, chances of that are pretty slim, considering we just gave them $20 Billion in smart bomb tech and other weapons.

Hard to pull a gun on your bed fellow.

But back to the OP
The only thing that separates Terrorists from any other psycho killer is we are scared shit-less of them. And now we let that fear completely take over our rational thought.

Why is it such a hassle for a federal agent to get a warrant? This isn't 24, a bomb is not on the line, and the time it takes a judge to sign a warrant won't determine life or death. If anything, the decider is whether people decide to act on all the intel they have. Maybe we should overhaul that before we start hacking at the constitution.

We had the intel we needed before 9/11, before we had the Patriot Act, but no one bothered to look into it. That was our problem, not lack of intel, but lack of the intelligence to use the intel.

Solid points, but this is why we need a change of government.  We cannot have any oil men in power.

chittydog wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

chittydog wrote:

I don't see how that's unrelated. Let's bar all Protestants from immigrating too. This selective discrimination would be a direct, blatant violation. It's almost as bad as barring an entire race.

You see it as bad, I see it as practical.  Besides, look at how strict immigration is in most First World countries.  We could stand to follow their example.

That first sentence makes me sad. I think the founding fathers would be sad too. On the other hand, I agree with tightening up immigration. I just want it to be tightened based on some standard, not just on fear.

Perhaps.  I know I will have likely saddened quite a few people by the end of this thread, but I refuse to adhere to political correctness.  We see very solid patterns of trouble among certain ethnic groups.  I would rather we adapt our policies to acknowledge the negative influences of Islam on the West than ignore them for the sake of PC.

sergeriver wrote:

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Shouldn't the Patriot Act include the US ally Saudi Arabia?  And how can you support a law that violates a lot of your civil liberties?

First question I dont know. Second one... It hasnt affected my life in one aspect.

I have a point, Im sure its been raised before:

Show one fact how the Patriot Act Has infringed upon my rights as an American Citizen, to prove your claim.

I hope it's a sincere reply.

I find it funny when most people complain about the government being too big, and they don't care if the government infringes their right to privacy controlling what you say, read or even your mail, just in the name of security.

I didn't think you would address my statement.

Fact, I dont want a bigger government. I dont want my annominity and personnel life scrutnised by FBI, CIA NSA, etc analysts, but guees what they have a profile on pretty much every one with a SSN and any connection to government work. I have been through many FBI background checks working for the govt. I have nothing to hide except my choice to smoke an occasional joint.

I have not had one right infringed since the Patriot act went in to effect. The Govt. dosen't tell me what what I can and cant say, what I can and can't read... Seriously show some fact from Argentina or any other source where any of the US Forum members' rights' have been infringed.

One. Get Real.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

pretty sure we sent that message in 2001.  didnt quite work out the way we wanted.  Sure they got the message and their reply was "So".

it wont solve any problem at all.  wahhabis are not the source of our problems.

you are too fixated with wahabis, its like you have tunnel vision.   its big bad world out there.  wahabis just seem to be the easier talking points on video game forums.

Let me ask this then.  How do you propose to solve this?  Staying in Iraq isn't really doing much other sucking away funds.

solve what?  the patriot act? staying in iraq? fighting terrorism world wide?  perception of islam?

tighten up your shot group, killer.

You tell me what staying in Iraq is solving then.