san4
The Mas
+311|6738|NYC, a place to live

Kmarion wrote:

The Palestinians worst enemy is Hamas.
That is a key point that everyone always overlooks. No reasonable person could think Hamas is trying to help the Palestinians by shooting rockets into Israeli towns.

lowing wrote:

san4 wrote:

If only the Israelis would accept a two-state solution.
Yeah, as if the rest of the Arab and Islamic world would simply leave Israel alone then huh?/

Just what would your defense of the constant bombardment of Israel be, after Israel stipulates?
Please tell me you knew I was being sarcastic. Israel accepted a two-state solution 60 years ago. The conflict can't end until the Arabs do too.
san4
The Mas
+311|6738|NYC, a place to live

lowing wrote:

Just what would your defense of the constant bombardment of Israel be, after Israel stipulates?
People hate Jews. Oh wait, I forgot that anti-semitism began and ended with the holocaust.

Edit: /sarcasm (just in case )

Edit 2: only the second sentence is sarcastic.

Last edited by san4 (2008-02-28 20:25:17)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6701|USA

san4 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

The Palestinians worst enemy is Hamas.
That is a key point that everyone always overlooks. No reasonable person could think Hamas is trying to help the Palestinians by shooting rockets into Israeli towns.

lowing wrote:

san4 wrote:

If only the Israelis would accept a two-state solution.
Yeah, as if the rest of the Arab and Islamic world would simply leave Israel alone then huh?/

Just what would your defense of the constant bombardment of Israel be, after Israel stipulates?
Please tell me you knew I was being sarcastic. Israel accepted a two-state solution 60 years ago. The conflict can't end until the Arabs do too.
nope, i thought you were talking about all the land lost during the 6 day war.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6335

Kmarion wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Deaths from Israeli/Palesinian coflict from OCHoPT. Figures in brackets are under 18s

Year     Palestinian deaths   Israeli deaths   

2005     216 (52)                     48 (6) 
2006     678 (127)                   25 (2) 
2007     396 (43)                     13 (0)

Anyone who thinks this conflict is equally going in either direction has no idea about what's happening. US media coverage has been endlessly denounced across the entire world as being unbelievably biased towards Israel. Israeli media is less pro-Israel than US media. Remember that the Palestinians are living in what has been described by Israelis as the worlds largest and most overcrowded prison. They are denied basic human rights and have put up with it for decades without significant violence. Having been utterly shat upon for over 40 years with any hope of a realistic solutions being endlessly blocked by the world superpower they are obviously giving up any hope and resorting to fighting back. If you were living under a 40 year brutal military occupation what would you do? Their attacks, especially on civillian targets are utterly reprehensable, but every day of the military occupation and apartheid inflicted on the Palestinians is utterly reprehensable too.
Here's a newsflash. Every bit of media coverage you get we most likely get as well. Welcome to the internet. Come on in and take a seat.

Israeli media is less pro-Israel than US media.
Seriously?
Yes, seriously.

Worldpress.org wrote:

On Aug. 25 the headline on CNN.com read, "Israel: Five Militants Shot in Raid." The article claims the militants were suspected of being involved with a suicide bombing; they were armed and exchanged fire with the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF), and five Palestinians were shot. The report also mentioned the town, Netanya, where the suicide bombing referenced in the article took place, was a frequent site for suicide bombings. No Palestinian quote, no witnesses giving an alternative perspective, and no mention that three of the victims shot were under the age of 18.


The Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, covered the same event including Palestinian quotes and some Palestinian claims. The paper reported that the IOF killed five Palestinians on Aug. 25, three of whom Palestinian sources claim to be between the ages of 14 and 17 with no known links to militant organizations. Four of the victims died at the scene, while one of the young victims died later that night.


A number of Palestinian reporters cited witnesses claiming all five Palestinians were unarmed, including the two militants killed. This was the first fatal attack since the "disengagement" of the Gaza Strip.


The contrast in coverage between CNN and Haaretz is staggering. The CNN headline was written in absolutes: "5 militants shot in raid." Their article continues by stating only the Israeli claim that five militants were killed, making the headline biased and misleading. The Haaretz headline read: "U.S. urges restraint after IDF raid that killed 5 Palestinians." This headline refers to the people who were shot as Palestinians and not solely as "militants." The Haaretz article covers conflicting Israeli and Palestinian claims, which made it impossible to determine whether or not all five killed were militants or civilians

Kmarion wrote:

Take a look at what you wrote and think about it:

PureFodder wrote:

Anyone who thinks this conflict is equally going in either direction has no idea about what's happening.

PureFodder wrote:

Their attacks, especially on civillian targets are utterly reprehensable, but every day of the military occupation and apartheid inflicted on the Palestinians is utterly reprehensable too.
Palestine is fighting back against opression. The US media will report stories based on the narative 'Israeli forces blew up 20 people in response to a rocket fored from Palestine' Then the next day 'Israeli forces bombed a building killing 4 in response to a suicide bombing' Israel always responds to Palestinian action, never the other way around. Take the Israeli attack on Lebanon. It was presented as an Israeli response to the kidnapping of a couple of Israeli troops. The day before Israeli forces kidnapped 2 Gaza residents. Hamas openly stated that their intention was to secure a hostage swap for the two civillians kidnapped and for some of the esimated hundred or so other civillians that have been kidnapped by Israeli forces. The geneva convention specifies that kidnapping civillians is a greater crime than kidnapping soldiers.

http://www.fair.org/activism/network-retaliation.html

Israeli crimes vastly eclipse Palestinian crimes.
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6536|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
But you know the Hamas mandate about wiping Israel off the face of the Earth is just a small miss understanding.

If the just pulled their heads outta their asses and learned to live in peace and not send suicide bombers into crowded market places, maybe they wouldn't get air striked.
dimascurtu
Member
+5|5961
"Edit: /sarcasm (just in case wink)

Edit 2: only the second sentence is sarcastic."

lmao hahahaha
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6536|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
Well its not really. Let me see, "I want to end oppression oh my people, so lets fire a bunch of rockets at a city."

That doesn't make sense. If the contained their attacks to military targets they would get a little more support.

Screw this, I'm going to bed.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6650|132 and Bush

PureFodder wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Deaths from Israeli/Palesinian coflict from OCHoPT. Figures in brackets are under 18s

Year     Palestinian deaths   Israeli deaths   

2005     216 (52)                     48 (6) 
2006     678 (127)                   25 (2) 
2007     396 (43)                     13 (0)

Anyone who thinks this conflict is equally going in either direction has no idea about what's happening. US media coverage has been endlessly denounced across the entire world as being unbelievably biased towards Israel. Israeli media is less pro-Israel than US media. Remember that the Palestinians are living in what has been described by Israelis as the worlds largest and most overcrowded prison. They are denied basic human rights and have put up with it for decades without significant violence. Having been utterly shat upon for over 40 years with any hope of a realistic solutions being endlessly blocked by the world superpower they are obviously giving up any hope and resorting to fighting back. If you were living under a 40 year brutal military occupation what would you do? Their attacks, especially on civillian targets are utterly reprehensable, but every day of the military occupation and apartheid inflicted on the Palestinians is utterly reprehensable too.
Here's a newsflash. Every bit of media coverage you get we most likely get as well. Welcome to the internet. Come on in and take a seat.

Israeli media is less pro-Israel than US media.
Seriously?
Yes, seriously.

Worldpress.org wrote:

On Aug. 25 the headline on CNN.com read, "Israel: Five Militants Shot in Raid." The article claims the militants were suspected of being involved with a suicide bombing; they were armed and exchanged fire with the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF), and five Palestinians were shot. The report also mentioned the town, Netanya, where the suicide bombing referenced in the article took place, was a frequent site for suicide bombings. No Palestinian quote, no witnesses giving an alternative perspective, and no mention that three of the victims shot were under the age of 18.


The Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, covered the same event including Palestinian quotes and some Palestinian claims. The paper reported that the IOF killed five Palestinians on Aug. 25, three of whom Palestinian sources claim to be between the ages of 14 and 17 with no known links to militant organizations. Four of the victims died at the scene, while one of the young victims died later that night.


A number of Palestinian reporters cited witnesses claiming all five Palestinians were unarmed, including the two militants killed. This was the first fatal attack since the "disengagement" of the Gaza Strip.


The contrast in coverage between CNN and Haaretz is staggering. The CNN headline was written in absolutes: "5 militants shot in raid." Their article continues by stating only the Israeli claim that five militants were killed, making the headline biased and misleading. The Haaretz headline read: "U.S. urges restraint after IDF raid that killed 5 Palestinians." This headline refers to the people who were shot as Palestinians and not solely as "militants." The Haaretz article covers conflicting Israeli and Palestinian claims, which made it impossible to determine whether or not all five killed were militants or civilians

Kmarion wrote:

Take a look at what you wrote and think about it:

PureFodder wrote:

Anyone who thinks this conflict is equally going in either direction has no idea about what's happening.

PureFodder wrote:

Their attacks, especially on civillian targets are utterly reprehensable, but every day of the military occupation and apartheid inflicted on the Palestinians is utterly reprehensable too.
Palestine is fighting back against opression. The US media will report stories based on the narative 'Israeli forces blew up 20 people in response to a rocket fored from Palestine' Then the next day 'Israeli forces bombed a building killing 4 in response to a suicide bombing' Israel always responds to Palestinian action, never the other way around. Take the Israeli attack on Lebanon. It was presented as an Israeli response to the kidnapping of a couple of Israeli troops. The day before Israeli forces kidnapped 2 Gaza residents. Hamas openly stated that their intention was to secure a hostage swap for the two civillians kidnapped and for some of the esimated hundred or so other civillians that have been kidnapped by Israeli forces. The geneva convention specifies that kidnapping civillians is a greater crime than kidnapping soldiers.

http://www.fair.org/activism/network-retaliation.html

Israeli crimes vastly eclipse Palestinian crimes.
It takes more than a few articles of misreporting to trump absolute common sense and logic (As if Israelis aren't as interested in their survival and image). If anything CNN would be the last media outlet to intentionally show bias in this situation. In case you hadn't been paying attention the United States has been pushing Israel for a deadline and talks.

Why in the hell would you even attempt to interject the Geneva convention into this argument? Hezbollah's broken virtually every provision of the Geneva Convention. Are you so blind to not take note when they send their own children into combat and strap suicide belts to them?

What you insinuated in your second statement was that the conflict is not going in either direction. You then contradicted yourself by condemning Palestinians as well. You did not reference the degree in your ambiguous "Everyone else doesn't have any idea of what's going on" remark.

Where is the distraught over the Kurds of Turkey, who have also faced decades of violent military oppression? Turkey should be viewed as occupied territory by your logic as well.

Palestinians have been afforded the opportunity on more than one occasion to self rule. They had 13 centuries to make a go of Palestine. There idea of governing has been to provoke Israel and kill other Palestinians that they don't agree with.

Borders change. Get over it. These borders were drawn by self serving Europeans.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6807|Argentina
Fuck Israel, fuck Hamas and fuck Hezbollah.  I'm tired of reading the same BS from Israel, Palestine, Lebanon and all the [insert here first part]tans.  Israel has no excuse for this.  Four kids?  Fuckers.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-02-29 01:48:57)

Shadowolf
Member
+9|6291|Israel
Thats what happens when terrorists and civilians live a few meters next to each other...
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6599|CH/BR - in UK

PluggedValve wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

It is happening on BOTH sides and they are both wrong and that is why it needs to stop sooner or later. The two sides have to stop the killing and the vicious cycle of death and violence. Whet I get tired of is the one sided attack against Israel when terrorists keep lobbing bombs into Israel on a daily basis. Do you think it is okay when an innocent Israeli dies from a missile or suicide attack? IT GOES BOTH WAYS AND THEY BOTH NEED TO STOP.

The Palestinians have a legitimate right and cause to have their own land and so does Israel. The main problem is that you have Islamic terror organizations using this conflict and high jacking a legitimate cause to further their effort to totally wipe out Israel. That is a FACT. If the Palestinian people could clean house and get rid of the extremism then something positive could happen.

STOP BLAMING ONE SIDE.......THE BOTH DESERVE CONDEMNATION!!!!!!!!!!!
Its ALWAYS against Israel.  Maybe Israel should use a little more humanity when deciding how to react to a terrorist.  Terrorists dont have nationality but Israel does, therefor Israel has to act ALOT more responsibly.  Its the old "do as i say not as i do" thing.

The reason there are no "Israeli terrorist's" is because they are called the "IDF".  Its the same thing just a different name.
Well.... to be honest, that's because Israel started the whole conflict by intruding on another country's territory. When Israel was created, 70% of the Palestinian population was made homeless... Imagine that in the USA.

-konfusion
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6890|Cologne, Germany

there are times when I wish we had made the jews settle in Madagascar or s.th.
Why did it have to be palestine, damn it ?

anyway, it's a vicious circle. People will keep dieing, and Palestinians and Israelis will continue to blame each other.
We have long moved past the point when we could actually tell who started it.

The sad part about this is that - on the local level - it is well possible for palestinians and israelis to live next to each other peacefully. Unfortunately, politics tend to get in the way...
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6698

Kmarion wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Deaths from Israeli/Palesinian coflict from OCHoPT. Figures in brackets are under 18s

Year     Palestinian deaths   Israeli deaths   

2005     216 (52)                     48 (6) 
2006     678 (127)                   25 (2) 
2007     396 (43)                     13 (0)

Anyone who thinks this conflict is equally going in either direction has no idea about what's happening. US media coverage has been endlessly denounced across the entire world as being unbelievably biased towards Israel. Israeli media is less pro-Israel than US media. Remember that the Palestinians are living in what has been described by Israelis as the worlds largest and most overcrowded prison. They are denied basic human rights and have put up with it for decades without significant violence. Having been utterly shat upon for over 40 years with any hope of a realistic solutions being endlessly blocked by the world superpower they are obviously giving up any hope and resorting to fighting back. If you were living under a 40 year brutal military occupation what would you do? Their attacks, especially on civillian targets are utterly reprehensable, but every day of the military occupation and apartheid inflicted on the Palestinians is utterly reprehensable too.
Here's a newsflash. Every bit of media coverage you get we most likely get as well. Welcome to the internet. Come on in and take a seat.

Israeli media is less pro-Israel than US media.
Seriously?
Yes, seriously.

Worldpress.org wrote:

On Aug. 25 the headline on CNN.com read, "Israel: Five Militants Shot in Raid." The article claims the militants were suspected of being involved with a suicide bombing; they were armed and exchanged fire with the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF), and five Palestinians were shot. The report also mentioned the town, Netanya, where the suicide bombing referenced in the article took place, was a frequent site for suicide bombings. No Palestinian quote, no witnesses giving an alternative perspective, and no mention that three of the victims shot were under the age of 18.


The Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, covered the same event including Palestinian quotes and some Palestinian claims. The paper reported that the IOF killed five Palestinians on Aug. 25, three of whom Palestinian sources claim to be between the ages of 14 and 17 with no known links to militant organizations. Four of the victims died at the scene, while one of the young victims died later that night.


A number of Palestinian reporters cited witnesses claiming all five Palestinians were unarmed, including the two militants killed. This was the first fatal attack since the "disengagement" of the Gaza Strip.


The contrast in coverage between CNN and Haaretz is staggering. The CNN headline was written in absolutes: "5 militants shot in raid." Their article continues by stating only the Israeli claim that five militants were killed, making the headline biased and misleading. The Haaretz headline read: "U.S. urges restraint after IDF raid that killed 5 Palestinians." This headline refers to the people who were shot as Palestinians and not solely as "militants." The Haaretz article covers conflicting Israeli and Palestinian claims, which made it impossible to determine whether or not all five killed were militants or civilians

Kmarion wrote:

Take a look at what you wrote and think about it:

PureFodder wrote:

Anyone who thinks this conflict is equally going in either direction has no idea about what's happening.
Palestine is fighting back against opression. The US media will report stories based on the narative 'Israeli forces blew up 20 people in response to a rocket fored from Palestine' Then the next day 'Israeli forces bombed a building killing 4 in response to a suicide bombing' Israel always responds to Palestinian action, never the other way around. Take the Israeli attack on Lebanon. It was presented as an Israeli response to the kidnapping of a couple of Israeli troops. The day before Israeli forces kidnapped 2 Gaza residents. Hamas openly stated that their intention was to secure a hostage swap for the two civillians kidnapped and for some of the esimated hundred or so other civillians that have been kidnapped by Israeli forces. The geneva convention specifies that kidnapping civillians is a greater crime than kidnapping soldiers.

http://www.fair.org/activism/network-retaliation.html

Israeli crimes vastly eclipse Palestinian crimes.
It takes more than a few articles of misreporting to trump absolute common sense and logic (As if Israelis aren't as interested in their survival and image). If anything CNN would be the last media outlet to intentionally show bias in this situation. In case you hadn't been paying attention the United States has been pushing Israel for a deadline and talks.

Why in the hell would you even attempt to interject the Geneva convention into this argument? Hezbollah's broken virtually every provision of the Geneva Convention. Are you so blind to not take note when they send their own children into combat and strap suicide belts to them?

What you insinuated in your second statement was that the conflict is not going in either direction. You then contradicted yourself by condemning Palestinians as well. You did not reference the degree in your ambiguous "Everyone else doesn't have any idea of what's going on" remark.

Where is the distraught over the Kurds of Turkey, who have also faced decades of violent military oppression? Turkey should be viewed as occupied territory by your logic as well.

Palestinians have been afforded the opportunity on more than one occasion to self rule. They had 13 centuries to make a go of Palestine. There idea of governing has been to provoke Israel and kill other Palestinians that they don't agree with.

Borders change. Get over it. These borders were drawn by self serving Europeans.
However you feel about it, it is true that Israeli media is less 'pro-Israel' than the US media. Whilst obviously they are interested in their survival and image, as you put it, they don't have to agree with what their government does. Does the media in the US agree with everything the gov. does? I have several Israeli friends, all of whom disagree with the occupation of Palestine  and they tell me that the Israeli media for the most part is reasonably 'fair and balanced' when it comes to reporting, although like all countries obviously far from perfect.  The same can't really be said for the American media, thanks to AIPAC.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6807|Argentina

B.Schuss wrote:

there are times when I wish we had made the jews settle in Madagascar or s.th.
Why did it have to be palestine, damn it ?

anyway, it's a vicious circle. People will keep dieing, and Palestinians and Israelis will continue to blame each other.
We have long moved past the point when we could actually tell who started it.

The sad part about this is that - on the local level - it is well possible for palestinians and israelis to live next to each other peacefully. Unfortunately, politics tend to get in the way...
Madagascar?  Hell no, what about the lemurs?
Lai
Member
+186|6200

IRONCHEF wrote:

No, Israel/USA does NOT care if children are targeted or accidentally killed.  Palestinians mean less than nothing to our leaders, sadly.
But it is still accidental, while Palestianian terrorists still target civilians purposely. Also, it is not uncommon for them to target their own people (most of the time out of stupidity, but at times purposely as well) and blame Israel. If I have to pick a side, I'm with Israel, not a single bit of doubt.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6701|USA

Lai wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

No, Israel/USA does NOT care if children are targeted or accidentally killed.  Palestinians mean less than nothing to our leaders, sadly.
But it is still accidental, while Palestianian terrorists still target civilians purposely. Also, it is not uncommon for them to target their own people (most of the time out of stupidity, but at times purposely as well) and blame Israel. If I have to pick a side, I'm with Israel, not a single bit of doubt.
This point has already been addressed and it has been determained that the issue will not be confused with facts like this.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6339|Éire

Shadowolf wrote:

Thats what happens when terrorists and civilians live a few meters next to each other...
That's not good enough I'm afraid Shadowolf. When a Palestinian militant  fires a rocket roughly in the direction of an Israeli military checkpoint and ends up killing some random Israeli civilians who were unlucky enough to be hanging around nearby it gets called terrorism ...and rightly so. When the Israeli military fires rockets at a city block or drops a one ton bomb on an apartment block in order to get a few Palestinian militants and ends up killing loads of Palestinian civilians it gets called 'collateral damage'.

The Palestinians need to turn their backs on the extremist elements within their society and the Israelis need to drop the macho military bullshit because I can tell you, from the experiences of my own country, without compromises both sides will keep fighting ad infinitum.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6339|Éire
Israel warns of Gaza 'holocaust'

"The more [rocket] fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they (the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger holocaust because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," Matan Vilnai told Israeli army radio.

Holocaust!??? Interesting use of language ...funny how the victim can so often become the monster.
JahManRed
wank
+646|6677|IRELAND

Kmarion wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Deaths from Israeli/Palesinian coflict from OCHoPT. Figures in brackets are under 18s

Year     Palestinian deaths   Israeli deaths   

2005     216 (52)                     48 (6) 
2006     678 (127)                   25 (2) 
2007     396 (43)                     13 (0)

Anyone who thinks this conflict is equally going in either direction has no idea about what's happening. US media coverage has been endlessly denounced across the entire world as being unbelievably biased towards Israel. Israeli media is less pro-Israel than US media. Remember that the Palestinians are living in what has been described by Israelis as the worlds largest and most overcrowded prison. They are denied basic human rights and have put up with it for decades without significant violence. Having been utterly shat upon for over 40 years with any hope of a realistic solutions being endlessly blocked by the world superpower they are obviously giving up any hope and resorting to fighting back. If you were living under a 40 year brutal military occupation what would you do? Their attacks, especially on civillian targets are utterly reprehensable, but every day of the military occupation and apartheid inflicted on the Palestinians is utterly reprehensable too.
Here's a newsflash. Every bit of media coverage you get we most likely get as well. Welcome to the internet. Come on in and take a seat.

Israeli media is less pro-Israel than US media.
Seriously?
Yes, seriously.

Worldpress.org wrote:

On Aug. 25 the headline on CNN.com read, "Israel: Five Militants Shot in Raid." The article claims the militants were suspected of being involved with a suicide bombing; they were armed and exchanged fire with the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF), and five Palestinians were shot. The report also mentioned the town, Netanya, where the suicide bombing referenced in the article took place, was a frequent site for suicide bombings. No Palestinian quote, no witnesses giving an alternative perspective, and no mention that three of the victims shot were under the age of 18.


The Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, covered the same event including Palestinian quotes and some Palestinian claims. The paper reported that the IOF killed five Palestinians on Aug. 25, three of whom Palestinian sources claim to be between the ages of 14 and 17 with no known links to militant organizations. Four of the victims died at the scene, while one of the young victims died later that night.


A number of Palestinian reporters cited witnesses claiming all five Palestinians were unarmed, including the two militants killed. This was the first fatal attack since the "disengagement" of the Gaza Strip.


The contrast in coverage between CNN and Haaretz is staggering. The CNN headline was written in absolutes: "5 militants shot in raid." Their article continues by stating only the Israeli claim that five militants were killed, making the headline biased and misleading. The Haaretz headline read: "U.S. urges restraint after IDF raid that killed 5 Palestinians." This headline refers to the people who were shot as Palestinians and not solely as "militants." The Haaretz article covers conflicting Israeli and Palestinian claims, which made it impossible to determine whether or not all five killed were militants or civilians

Kmarion wrote:

Take a look at what you wrote and think about it:

Palestine is fighting back against opression. The US media will report stories based on the narative 'Israeli forces blew up 20 people in response to a rocket fored from Palestine' Then the next day 'Israeli forces bombed a building killing 4 in response to a suicide bombing' Israel always responds to Palestinian action, never the other way around. Take the Israeli attack on Lebanon. It was presented as an Israeli response to the kidnapping of a couple of Israeli troops. The day before Israeli forces kidnapped 2 Gaza residents. Hamas openly stated that their intention was to secure a hostage swap for the two civillians kidnapped and for some of the esimated hundred or so other civillians that have been kidnapped by Israeli forces. The geneva convention specifies that kidnapping civillians is a greater crime than kidnapping soldiers.

http://www.fair.org/activism/network-retaliation.html

Israeli crimes vastly eclipse Palestinian crimes.
It takes more than a few articles of misreporting to trump absolute common sense and logic (As if Israelis aren't as interested in their survival and image). If anything CNN would be the last media outlet to intentionally show bias in this situation. In case you hadn't been paying attention the United States has been pushing Israel for a deadline and talks.

Why in the hell would you even attempt to interject the Geneva convention into this argument? Hezbollah's broken virtually every provision of the Geneva Convention. Are you so blind to not take note when they send their own children into combat and strap suicide belts to them?

What you insinuated in your second statement was that the conflict is not going in either direction. You then contradicted yourself by condemning Palestinians as well. You did not reference the degree in your ambiguous "Everyone else doesn't have any idea of what's going on" remark.

Where is the distraught over the Kurds of Turkey, who have also faced decades of violent military oppression? Turkey should be viewed as occupied territory by your logic as well.

Palestinians have been afforded the opportunity on more than one occasion to self rule. They had 13 centuries to make a go of Palestine. There idea of governing has been to provoke Israel and kill other Palestinians that they don't agree with.

Borders change. Get over it. These borders were drawn by self serving Europeans.
Yes and forcefully changed by the Israelis contravening international law.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just as questioning the war in Iraq is "un-American," the idea of questioning Israeli actions is "anti-Semitic." Ridiculous assertions such as equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism is a way in which the pro-Israeli lobby restricts the media from criticizing Israel or fairly reporting matters.

The media are corporate sponsored outlets that feed into the majority support at a time when the Palestinian lobby is virtually non-existent in America. The "biblical rights" of Jews and their suffering the Holocaust are exploited to reassert the status of victimization. Pro-Israeli advocates incorporate the notion that the Arabs are trying to "drive the Jews to the sea."
http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/2303.cfm

B.Schuss wrote:

there are times when I wish we had made the jews settle in Madagascar or s.th.
Why did it have to be palestine, damn it ?
It would be no different in Madagascar. Peoples do not like to have their land taken from them anywhere in the world. They should have carved a peice of Austria and Germany off and give it to the Zionists IMO.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6339|Éire

B.Schuss wrote:

there are times when I wish we had made the jews settle in Madagascar or s.th.
Why did it have to be palestine, damn it ?
I have to agree with JahManRed on this, Germany and Austria should have paid the price on this one and given some of their land to the Zionists. the Palestinians got royally shafted on this one.
Shadowolf
Member
+9|6291|Israel
All of those that say that Israel could have been created somewhere else, please open up a history book you morons.
The majority of the Zionists did not care about any country other than Israel, they did not settle on anything outside of it.
And believe me, they were offered a couple of deals which they refused.

And no, the land was not stolen from the Arabs.
First lands where bought by Jews, and then lands where given to them by the British.
After that the UN gave both the Arabs and the Jews their own land but the Arabs refused the offer and opened war.

So no land was stolen, the Arabs and pro-Arab people cry about "Israel the invader" but the true invader is the Arab population that refused the UN offer which brought to their demise.

Just like in a casino, the Arabs bet all of their "money" (land) and lost. So how the hell can they expect their "money" to be given back to them?
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6693

Shadowolf wrote:

All of those that say that Israel could have been created somewhere else, please open up a history book you morons.
The majority of the Zionists did not care about any country other than Israel, they did not settle on anything outside of it.
And believe me, they were offered a couple of deals which they refused.

And no, the land was not stolen from the Arabs.
First lands where bought by Jews, and then lands where given to them by the British.
After that the UN gave both the Arabs and the Jews their own land but the Arabs refused the offer and opened war.

So no land was stolen, the Arabs and pro-Arab people cry about "Israel the invader" but the true invader is the Arab population that refused the UN offer which brought to their demise.

Just like in a casino, the Arabs bet all of their "money" (land) and lost. So how the hell can they expect their "money" to be given back to them?
well africa was being looked at before israel.  ever heard of DeBeers
Shadowolf
Member
+9|6291|Israel
It was being looked at but after the first Zionist Congress it was clear most Zionists only wanted Israel.
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6536|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

Braddock wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

there are times when I wish we had made the jews settle in Madagascar or s.th.
Why did it have to be palestine, damn it ?
I have to agree with JahManRed on this, Germany and Austria should have paid the price on this one and given some of their land to the Zionists. the Palestinians got royally shafted on this one.
It would not have made sense to put them in Germany. It would have still been to fresh for a lot of the camp survivors and the world.

Plus, Palestine was the historic land of the Jews during biblical times and they were forced out. Granted they have a heavy hand, but the Palestinians have caused a lot of their own problems. Israel is working the Palestinian elected government in the west bank. If Hamas strong men wouldn't have violently seized Gaza, we would not be reading about this.
Drakef
Cheeseburger Logicist
+117|6411|Vancouver

Shadowolf wrote:

All of those that say that Israel could have been created somewhere else, please open up a history book you morons.
The majority of the Zionists did not care about any country other than Israel, they did not settle on anything outside of it.
And believe me, they were offered a couple of deals which they refused.

And no, the land was not stolen from the Arabs.
First lands where bought by Jews, and then lands where given to them by the British.
After that the UN gave both the Arabs and the Jews their own land but the Arabs refused the offer and opened war.

So no land was stolen, the Arabs and pro-Arab people cry about "Israel the invader" but the true invader is the Arab population that refused the UN offer which brought to their demise.

Just like in a casino, the Arabs bet all of their "money" (land) and lost. So how the hell can they expect their "money" to be given back to them?
It was through immigration that Jewish populations were able to establish themselves in Palestine, and effectively force their presence in the area. The area had been inhabited by the Palestinians for generations, and the land was effectively handed over to the Jews, who even after immigrating to the land in large numbers, still constituted a minority. The Palestinians had every right to fight for the land that was taken from them. To make an analogy, it would be not dissimilar if Mexican immigrants in Texas declared their own separate state by reason that their ancestors had lived there hundreds of years ago. It would be not dissimilar if I were to move into your backyard and declare that since I inhabit the backyard, it is now mine. A country was established by immigrants. Why would they take an UN "offer"? It was not an offer but a declaration of the justification of the Jews to return to Palestine and establish a nation within the Palestinian lands. It was a mismanagement of the British authorities to permit this to occur, and to give the Jews land in Palestine.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard