IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6510|Northern California
Ok, I personally can't stand Ted Nugent at all, but when I read this and pretended it was someone else saying it, I was thoroughly impressed.   He seems to explain the reason for being armed vs. not armed better than I've ever heard explained..in real terms, with no room for argument, and with power.

I'm posting this here for those of you who don't get it.  Those who don't understand what a sacred, monumental idea it is to be able to be armed.  This is why there ARE gun nuts in the USA and why they're right..even though they're a little deranged.  This is one big reason the 2nd amendment exists and sets Americans apart from other countries. 

Just read before I say too much and ruin it.... (I know, too late)
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commen … index.html

WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.

Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.

Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.

A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.

At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.

More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.

My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.

She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.

No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.

Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.

Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.

Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun ban. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.

Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?

I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-02-21 10:46:45)

SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6149|North Tonawanda, NY
I read that a while back.  Good article.
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|6779|San Antonio, Texas
I am {M5}Sniper3 and I approve this message.
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6499|Somewhere else

Ted's a bit out there sometimes, but this article is DEAD ON.

Also, a related website advocating concealed carry in college:

http://concealedcampus.org/
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6510|Northern California
Yeah, it's from about a year ago, but I just now saw it.  And right now I'm googling all those cited shootings and it's amazing that the Pearl High School shooter articles NEVER explain how he was stopped by the principal.

Vice Principal Joel Myrick held his Colt .45 point blank to the high school boy's head. Last week, he told me what it was like. "I said 'why are you shooting my kids?' He said it was because nobody liked him and everything seemed hopeless," Myrick said. "Then I asked him his name. He said 'you know me, Mr. Myrick. Remember? I gave you a discount on your pizza delivery last week."

The shooter was Luke Woodham. On that day in 1997, Woodham slit his mother's throat then grabbed a .30-30 lever action deer rifle. He packed the pockets of his trench coat with ammo and headed off to Pearl High School, in Pearl, Miss......

..He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6537|Montucky
I am S3v3N and I approve this message.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6413|The Gem Saloon
yes, yes and yes.
mcgid1
Meh...
+129|6735|Austin, TX/San Antonio, TX
I am mcgid1 and I approve this message.
SgtSlutter
Banned
+550|6657|Amsterdam, NY

Parker wrote:

yes, yes and yes.
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|6596|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!
I am Roger Lesboules. I am not even American, yet...I Approve this message.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6464|The Land of Scott Walker
Nail ... head ... whack.  Best post yet on this subject.  +1
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6549|The lunar module
Hi.

I am apollo_fi, and I am unable to find an ounce of sanity in this message.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6413|The Gem Saloon

apollo_fi wrote:

Hi.

I am apollo_fi, and I am unable to find an ounce of sanity in this message.
then lets hear it....whats wrong with what he said?
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6464|The Land of Scott Walker
*crickets*
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6510|Northern California

apollo_fi wrote:

Hi.

I am apollo_fi, and I am unable to find an ounce of sanity in this message.
Yes, please, show the errors of his ways.  Honestly, I'll let the DOJ keep my gun that I'm picking up Monday after it's illegal 10 day wait, if you can convince me Ted is wrong.  I already hate Ted personally so you have alot going for you.  Make it a good one.
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6549|The lunar module

Parker wrote:

then lets hear it....whats wrong with what he said?
I feel old Ted is himself offering 'a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial.'

With the exceptions of the shooting range, the hunting area, and the collector's cabinet, guns have no place in civilian life. IMO.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6413|The Gem Saloon

apollo_fi wrote:

Parker wrote:

then lets hear it....whats wrong with what he said?
I feel old Ted is himself offering 'a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial.'

With the exceptions of the shooting range, the hunting area, and the collector's cabinet, guns have no place in civilian life. IMO.
and i disagree.


i have training and experience. why shouldnt i be allowed to carry a firearm, if there are criminals that possess and use them?
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6510|Northern California

apollo_fi wrote:

Parker wrote:

then lets hear it....whats wrong with what he said?
I feel old Ted is himself offering 'a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial.'

With the exceptions of the shooting range, the hunting area, and the collector's cabinet, guns have no place in civilian life. IMO.
Aww come on...  you're giving us your "IMO" on this?  you said you couldn't find sanity in what Ted said.  I have never read a more clear, concise argument for being armed than that, ever!!  And you're bailing on it with your modest opinion?  This ain't the apollo_fi I know.  Give us a run for our money man!
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6499|Somewhere else

Parker wrote:

apollo_fi wrote:

Parker wrote:

then lets hear it....whats wrong with what he said?
I feel old Ted is himself offering 'a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial.'

With the exceptions of the shooting range, the hunting area, and the collector's cabinet, guns have no place in civilian life. IMO.
and i disagree.


i have training and experience. why shouldnt i be allowed to carry a firearm, if there are criminals that possess and use them?
I agree with Parker.  And while I Agree with you apollo, guns have no place in civilian life.  The problem is, is nutjobs DO bring them into civilian life, and end it as many times as they can before they too are ended.  Which until we can help or rid of nutjobs, I would like to carry a gun to defend myself in a nutjob sitaution.

Imagine if the people at VT had aright to carry.  NEVERMIND the politics of it for just a second.  If someone else had a gun, several people would be alive right now, going to school, becoming learned people who would have one day had a family, contributed to society.

At this point, with America having guns, To outlaw them would get rid of many guns, but never all of them.  There is a black market for AUTOMATIC weapons right now, and they ARE illegal.  A determined Psycho could find a gun no problem.

In other countries where there are no guns to begin with, it's much more difficult.

WE could outlaw guns, but we wouldn't get rid of them anytime soon. So many unregistered guns out there, and so many hard core gun owners that would give them up.

So, in a country that WILL ALWAYS have guns, regardless of laws, is it not best to let people protect themselves from dangerous people?
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6544|South Florida

apollo_fi wrote:

Parker wrote:

then lets hear it....whats wrong with what he said?
I feel old Ted is himself offering 'a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial.'

With the exceptions of the shooting range, the hunting area, and the collector's cabinet, guns have no place in civilian life. IMO.
But you will never, ever, ever, ever stop guns from being in civilian life! No matter how many restrictions there are. Criminals will always have guns. By removing the guns from the innocent people, you remove there ability to easily defend themselves.
15 more years! 15 more years!
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6549|The lunar module

Parker wrote:

apollo_fi wrote:

I feel old Ted is himself offering 'a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial.'

With the exceptions of the shooting range, the hunting area, and the collector's cabinet, guns have no place in civilian life. IMO.
and i disagree.


i have training and experience. why shouldnt i be allowed to carry a firearm, if there are criminals that possess and use them?
Maybe you should, indeed, be allowed to carry a firearm.

The real issue is, do you trust the competence of the others who are allowed to carry a firearm? Do you trust them to have at least as much training and experience as you do? Do you trust that they are as mentally stable as you are?
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6544|South Florida

RoosterCantrell wrote:

There is a black market for AUTOMATIC weapons right now, and they ARE illegal.  A determined Psycho could find a gun no problem.
Awesome example Rooster, there has been a ban on Automatic weapons for so many years now! But people still get them! It just further proves that even if you completely restrict any civilian use of something, they will still do it. Just like Drugs.
15 more years! 15 more years!
PureFodder
Member
+225|6304
I'm all for Britains gun ban laws, but I fully agree that most gun free zones in a country with widespread gun ownership are moronic.

If the country's populace can own guns, then the problems of gun ownership (a vast increase in the number of armed criminals) is already in place and gun free zones are obviously going to do nothing to stop it unless the gun free zone is securely fenced off and everyone who enters has to go through a rigourous safety check and it is filled with armed patrols just in case. So the White house for example is a sensible gun free zone. Having all the white house staff armed is likely to result in a large number of dead members of the executive branch.

Places like university campuses, you're only restricting the law abiding citizens who can have the potential to stop criminals. There's nothing in particular stopping armed people from entering most campuses, hence nothing to prevent a violation of the gun free zone.
13rin
Member
+977|6498

IRONCHEF wrote:

apollo_fi wrote:

Parker wrote:

then lets hear it....whats wrong with what he said?
I feel old Ted is himself offering 'a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial.'

With the exceptions of the shooting range, the hunting area, and the collector's cabinet, guns have no place in civilian life. IMO.
Aww come on...  you're giving us your "IMO" on this?  you said you couldn't find sanity in what Ted said.  I have never read a more clear, concise argument for being armed than that, ever!!  And you're bailing on it with your modest opinion?  This ain't the apollo_fi I know.  Give us a run for our money man!
You made him think about it instead of blindly following the D's.  He realized those giving him the "feel good" are wrong and have nothing.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6510|Northern California
Apollo, thanks for that comment.  And yes, I trust the majority of concealed weapon permit holders.  They most often understand disparity of force (like the principal who didn't shoot the kid who just shot up his school) and are not nutjobs.  If I ever get a CCW (out of CA), I'd be certain to rehearse scenarios in my mind of when and when not to engage someone..among other things.  it's too great a responsibility to NOT to be careful.  If there were 30 CCWs in the hallway at virginia tech when that guy was shooting away, there would not have been 30 guys shooting the gunman all at once.  Most of them would have likely found cover and concealment and waited for a clean shot.  Some lives might have been saved...one life might have been saved..and that's all that matters.

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