Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6119|'straya
Do you think Australia (RAAF) is wasting its money by buying 24 new FA-18 Superhornets?

They are to fill the gap between now and when we receive the F-35 (JSF).

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23 … public_rss

please explain your answer.

EDIT: also do you think this would strain our relationship with the US?

Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2008-02-19 02:54:55)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

(Air) Warfare in the likely near future will be providing air support to troops on the ground. Buy some A-10's, or maybe some AC-130U Spooky's. Nobody is going to be fighting phantom "ghost" Jets over China. The military's of the world love to buy Ferrari's when the family really needs a Minivan .
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Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6617

Kmarion wrote:

(Air) Warfare in the likely near future will be providing air support to troops on the ground. Buy some A-10's, or maybe some AC-130U Spooky's. Nobody is going to be fighting phantom "ghost" Jets over China. The military's of the world love to buy Ferrari's when the family really needs a Minivan .
I believe the A part of the F/A would be the ground attack part.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6381|'Murka

Kmarion wrote:

(Air) Warfare in the likely near future will be providing air support to troops on the ground. Buy some A-10's, or maybe some AC-130U Spooky's. Nobody is going to be fighting phantom "ghost" Jets over China. The military's of the world love to buy Ferrari's when the family really needs a Minivan .
There still has to be an air-to-air capability for defense. While the bulk of air warfare has--of late--been focused on close air support and interdiction, that does not obviate the need for counterair capability.

And Ajax is correct...the Superhornet has very good air-to-ground abilities.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

(Air) Warfare in the likely near future will be providing air support to troops on the ground. Buy some A-10's, or maybe some AC-130U Spooky's. Nobody is going to be fighting phantom "ghost" Jets over China. The military's of the world love to buy Ferrari's when the family really needs a Minivan .
I believe the A part of the F/A would be the ground attack part.
I was speaking of rushing to get the JSF's.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6119|'straya
Yes australia does still need a strong air-air defense capability as we are a island (duh) really it needs to be the strongest part of our defense forces.
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6119|'straya

Kmarion wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

(Air) Warfare in the likely near future will be providing air support to troops on the ground. Buy some A-10's, or maybe some AC-130U Spooky's. Nobody is going to be fighting phantom "ghost" Jets over China. The military's of the world love to buy Ferrari's when the family really needs a Minivan .
I believe the A part of the F/A would be the ground attack part.
I was speaking of rushing to get the JSF's.
F-35's are good for us because it can do what we require in one plane...

1. Good air-air capabilities.
2. Good stealth capabilities.
3. Good payload.
4. and shit guys... it hovers lol

buying A-10 or AC-130 spectres would really not serve our purpose.

EDIT: spelling

Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2008-02-19 03:20:59)

Nappy
Apprentice
+151|6200|NSW, Australia

buy Migs, and j-10's
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6119|'straya

Nappy wrote:

buy Migs, and j-10's
Lol this is IRL not BF2

J-10 and various MiGs are not up to the standard of the F-35 (for our purposes)

and plus... i wonder how happy america would be about that.
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6617

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

buying A-10 or AC-130 spectres would really not serve our purpose.

EDIT: spelling
Yeah I don't see you Aussies being invaded any time soon and the U.S. can handle that role in the middle east by itself.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Yes australia does still need a strong air-air defense capability as we are a island (duh) really it needs to be the strongest part of our defense forces.
I loled.

Ok so because you are an island continent that means you have a special need that other nations don't have? As if air campaign must be launched exclusively over open water.

You have obviously missed my point.

Of those three "indispensable" aircraft, the most promising is the Navy's F/A 18E/F, based upon a proven airframe and fulfilling at least some legitimate needs. The Navy insists the program is within budget, but maintains its numbers only by deferring problems. The F-22 Raptor, a supremely-unnecessary air-superiority fighter, is over budget $667 million years before the first plane has been produced for combat. The contractor, in a wonderful blackmail effort, has warned that costs will shoot higher if the Air Force does not continue to buy an unwanted aircraft, the C-130J, to keep assembly lines open. The final aircraft, the Joint Strike Fighter, is lagging in development, but being rushed forward. Its purchase will force an annual doubling of the aircraft procurement budget, even if costs do not increase one dollar beyond current projections. Yet, in an air campaign such as those in Yugoslavia or Iraq, it offers little more than planes we have.
You are inventing possible threats that most likely will never happen to justify a new toy. Meanwhile you end up paying much more for an aircraft that does little more to protect you here in the real world (You get less of what you need).


It's a little old but still relevant.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur … itary.html

We are buying the future force the generals and admirals, Congressmen and contractors want, not the one we will need. This is waste just short of treason.
Tell me what is your biggest threat?
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Nappy
Apprentice
+151|6200|NSW, Australia

who cares if the us doesnt like what planes we buy?

i thikn they drive crappy cars, but thats their choice to make ( when i say crappy i mean, i dont like them, if i had the choice between an american car and a jap car, id probly go jap car)

tbh i dont know anything about real life fighters and stuff

i just know how to fly cessnas and other small aircraft like piper etc etc
and have a small knowledge on flying jetliners and stuff

Last edited by Nappy (2008-02-19 03:39:23)

Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6119|'straya

Kmarion wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Yes australia does still need a strong air-air defense capability as we are a island (duh) really it needs to be the strongest part of our defense forces.
I loled.

Ok so because you are an island continent that means you have a special need that other nations don't have? As if air campaign must be launched exclusively over open water.

You have obviously missed my point.
Well it would seem to me that in a defensive situation... it would be rather hard for Australias rather small army to protect such a large country (as u said continent) so i would say that in a DEFENSIVE role the Air force is much more important than our army. it is true that it is unlikely we would be invaded or that a large scale war would happen for quite a while... but we can assume we will ALWAYS be outnumbered by enemy ground personel.

Its abit different to a small European country that has a larger population density in a smaller area... i dunno i might be crazy... but i think we do have a special DIFFERENT need to many other countries.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Yes australia does still need a strong air-air defense capability as we are a island (duh) really it needs to be the strongest part of our defense forces.
I loled.

Ok so because you are an island continent that means you have a special need that other nations don't have? As if air campaign must be launched exclusively over open water.

You have obviously missed my point.
Well it would seem to me that in a defensive situation... it would be rather hard for Australias rather small army to protect such a large country (as u said continent) so i would say that in a DEFENSIVE role the Air force is much more important than our army. it is true that it is unlikely we would be invaded or that a large scale war would happen for quite a while... but we can assume we will ALWAYS be outnumbered by enemy ground personel.

Its abit different to a small European country that has a larger population density in a smaller area... i dunno i might be crazy... but i think we do have a special DIFFERENT need to many other countries.
From what I've heard you guys have a kick ass navy.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=78037

Some kick ass allies also


Future wise: ICBM's tbh. Three F-18's for the price of one JSF.. I go with numbers in the meantime.


I do like the Raptors though .
Last summer.
[google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6777392770222848705[/google]

Blue Angels (f-18's). We saw them the show before the accident. I filmed.
[google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3532849277157725237[/google]
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jord
Member
+2,382|6649|The North, beyond the wall.
Why buy Air to Ground bombers when America can do it for you
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6617

jord wrote:

Why buy Air to Ground bombers when America can do it for you
Thats what she said.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6193|Brisneyland
From what I heard on "4 Corners" ( very high standard Aussie current affairs program), the Superhornet cannot win air superiority over the fighter jets our close neigbours have. Australia has generally had air superiority over its close neighbours. The fighter they compared the FA18 with was the SU30 ( i think, the documentary was on a few months ago)

Compared to the Superhornet, the SU 30 was much faster, had a higher ceiling, a longer range, and a rear facing radar.
The only advantages of the FA18 was the slight stealth capabilities ( although the experts on the show denied they were that effective as the weapons and fuel tanks were still exposed), and a long range weapon system that could launch missiles high distances away from their target.
Another advantage of the SU30 was that it you could buy 2 of them for the price of 1 Superhornet.

4corners wrote:

In the skies over Russia one of the world’s most advanced and lethal fighter aircraft displays its fearful capabilities.

The new generation Sukhoi fighters are causing enormous consternation in Western military circles and they will soon be operating in Australia’s so called "sphere of influence".

WING COMMANDER CHRIS MILLS (RTD), DEFENCE AIR WARFARE STRATEGIST 2001-07: It’s a formidable weapon, flies higher, faster, further, it turns better and it's got better weapons.
When the previous defence minister told the defence forces that they were buying the Superhornets ( without any consultation) they actually laughed, until they realised he wasnt joking.
We should break the deal as we will still pay the the manufacturer a deal break fee ( not sure what its actually called). At least we wouldnt pay billions for an inferior fighter.

If you are interested in looking at the story I watched you can see it on http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_ … efault.htm goes for a while but very interesting.


Edit : I dont think this would strain our relationship with the US.

Last edited by Burwhale the Avenger (2008-02-19 05:03:22)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

Well, you could always wait till 2024 .

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ … el=defense
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aimbot_target
Member
+9|6246

Burwhale the Avenger wrote:

Compared to the Superhornet, the SU 30 was much faster, had a higher ceiling, a longer range, and a rear facing radar.
The only advantages of the FA18 was the slight stealth capabilities ( although the experts on the show denied they were that effective as the weapons and fuel tanks were still exposed), and a long range weapon system that could launch missiles high distances away from their target.
Another advantage of the SU30 was that it you could buy 2 of them for the price of 1 Superhornet.
The F/A-18 isn't a stealth fighter at all.  I think you meant the JSF here.
3lmo
Don't Hassel the Hoff
+345|6274|The | Netherlands
Waste of money, go buy F35's they are sexy.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

aimbot_target wrote:

Burwhale the Avenger wrote:

Compared to the Superhornet, the SU 30 was much faster, had a higher ceiling, a longer range, and a rear facing radar.
The only advantages of the FA18 was the slight stealth capabilities ( although the experts on the show denied they were that effective as the weapons and fuel tanks were still exposed), and a long range weapon system that could launch missiles high distances away from their target.
Another advantage of the SU30 was that it you could buy 2 of them for the price of 1 Superhornet.
The F/A-18 isn't a stealth fighter at all.  I think you meant the JSF here.
As of early 2008, there is some discussion between Boeing and the US and Australian militaries about creating a Super Hornet Block III, a generation 4.75 upgrade with extra forward stealth capabilities and extended range, to be succeeded in 2024 by a sixth-generation fighter.
Slight being the keyword.
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psH
Banned
+217|6354|Sydney

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Do you think Australia (RAAF) is wasting its money by buying 24 new FA-18 Superhornets?

They are to fill the gap between now and when we receive the F-35 (JSF).

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23 … public_rss

please explain your answer.

EDIT: also do you think this would strain our relationship with the US?
yes, i think this is a good idea.

also, weren't they F22's?

and if so, are they here to replace the F-111's?
Benzin
Member
+576|5969
FA-18, IIRC, was designed as a ground support aircraft, right? Why buy one of those as a plane to defend your skies? Buy something designed to own the skies. Buy a fucking USS Enterprise with phasers and control the fucking world.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6381|'Murka

Try to address multiple posts at once:

1. Superhornets do incorporate stealth characteristics. They aren't as stealthy as the F-35 or F-22, but they are comparable in stealth to the Typhoon and Rafale.

2. The SH's will be replacing the F-111s that the Aussies are struggling to keep in the air. The US retired those things more than a decade ago.

3. The F/A-18 is dual-role: both air superiority and strike. The E/F model is even better in both aspects than the A-D models.

4. Nobody's "rushing" to the F-35. It will be many years before it is fielded in sufficient numbers to meet the need of either the US or allied countries buying it.

I think that's everything.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6119|'straya

Kmarion wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


I loled.

Ok so because you are an island continent that means you have a special need that other nations don't have? As if air campaign must be launched exclusively over open water.

You have obviously missed my point.
Well it would seem to me that in a defensive situation... it would be rather hard for Australias rather small army to protect such a large country (as u said continent) so i would say that in a DEFENSIVE role the Air force is much more important than our army. it is true that it is unlikely we would be invaded or that a large scale war would happen for quite a while... but we can assume we will ALWAYS be outnumbered by enemy ground personel.

Its abit different to a small European country that has a larger population density in a smaller area... i dunno i might be crazy... but i think we do have a special DIFFERENT need to many other countries.
From what I've heard you guys have a kick ass navy.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=78037

Some kick ass allies also


Future wise: ICBM's tbh. Three F-18's for the price of one JSF.. I go with numbers in the meantime.
Yer having some ICBM's would be nice... but i have a feeling we signed something that prevents us from having them... just have to rely on americas ICBM's

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