Will an airplane take off on a treadmill? I just saw the ad for the new episode to air next week 1/30/08 and had to post it. If any of you remember the post by ATG http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=58373&p=1 that was finally closed by chuy for over 400 posts of arguing in two days. I also made a video and posted it and came to the conclusion that it would but I be curious to see what mythbusters say.
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Only if the air being moved by actually touching the moving treadmill is going fast enough to get the airspeed at the wings up high enough.
I remember that post! that was epic
WRONGFlaming_Maniac wrote:
Only if the air being moved by actually touching the moving treadmill is going fast enough to get the airspeed at the wings up high enough.
Physics say that the plane will take off. Since the wheels on the plane spin freely (other than the initial friction of the bearings/axel), once that's broken the plane will be able to accelerate freely from the conveyor. Air speed plays little role in this, as the plane moving is going under the force of it's engine. Much like one taxing.
As long as the MB's don't fuck this up, the plane flies.
Heck yeah! I got some karmas from that topic. LOL!
Wasn't it started by Anon?CommieChipmunk wrote:
I remember that post! that was epic
Here we go again. JKFlaming_Maniac wrote:
Only if the air being moved by actually touching the moving treadmill is going fast enough to get the airspeed at the wings up high enough.
Hope this post won't get closed to quick cuz of "heated debating". (arguing)
ATG?LT.Victim wrote:
Wasn't it started by Anon?CommieChipmunk wrote:
I remember that post! that was epic
take the lessons learned from the nightrider myth. Objects in motion stay in motion it doesnt matter how fast the treadmill is going the airplane cannot achieve lift, do to no air passing its wing. it wont all the sudden speed up to 400 mph in the air on lift off.
Who said the plane is going under the force of its own engine? I assumed it was tied to something.BlackKoala wrote:
WRONGFlaming_Maniac wrote:
Only if the air being moved by actually touching the moving treadmill is going fast enough to get the airspeed at the wings up high enough.
Physics say that the plane will take off. Since the wheels on the plane spin freely (other than the initial friction of the bearings/axel), once that's broken the plane will be able to accelerate freely from the conveyor. Air speed plays little role in this, as the plane moving is going under the force of it's engine. Much like one taxing.
As long as the MB's don't fuck this up, the plane flies.
Airspeed over the wings has everything to do with it, that's where the lift comes from.
Assuming the wheels spin freely, the plane will not move anywhere.
Newton wrote:
Objects at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force.
LT.Victim wrote:
Wasn't it started by Anon?CommieChipmunk wrote:
I remember that post! that was epic
Right, but the plane will have the ability to move freely on the conveyor once the initial friction is broken. At that point, it i just like leaving a normal runway. If you tether the plane down, exactly how was someone expecting it to take off? Like a helicopter?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Who said the plane is going under the force of its own engine? I assumed it was tied to something.BlackKoala wrote:
WRONGFlaming_Maniac wrote:
Only if the air being moved by actually touching the moving treadmill is going fast enough to get the airspeed at the wings up high enough.
Physics say that the plane will take off. Since the wheels on the plane spin freely (other than the initial friction of the bearings/axel), once that's broken the plane will be able to accelerate freely from the conveyor. Air speed plays little role in this, as the plane moving is going under the force of it's engine. Much like one taxing.
As long as the MB's don't fuck this up, the plane flies.
Airspeed over the wings has everything to do with it, that's where the lift comes from.
I thought you were saying that the plane was going to generate the lift and take off whilst not moving, lol.
.....? Have you watched the video? The guy explains it perfectly.FM wrote:
Assuming the wheels spin freely, the plane will not move anywhere.
Last edited by BlackKoala (2008-01-23 19:27:42)
The plane can only fly if it gets lift, and that is achieved by air passing over the wings. So if its moving on a treadmill, its moving relative to the belt, but stationary relative to the air... so I dont think it can fly.
tbh in the thread he says the plane is standing on a treadmill, standing implies lack of motion, he never mentions the plane accelerating, therefore in this problem neither the plane nor the treadmill are moving and therefore the plane will not lift off.
ohhh that's probably where all of the confusion came from.. if it was tied to something, then no it wouldn't take off without an engine... In a frictionless environment however, it would stay in the same place without a string.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Who said the plane is going under the force of its own engine? I assumed it was tied to something.BlackKoala wrote:
WRONGFlaming_Maniac wrote:
Only if the air being moved by actually touching the moving treadmill is going fast enough to get the airspeed at the wings up high enough.
Physics say that the plane will take off. Since the wheels on the plane spin freely (other than the initial friction of the bearings/axel), once that's broken the plane will be able to accelerate freely from the conveyor. Air speed plays little role in this, as the plane moving is going under the force of it's engine. Much like one taxing.
As long as the MB's don't fuck this up, the plane flies.
Airspeed over the wings has everything to do with it, that's where the lift comes from.
But since the engine is independent of the wheels I'm pretty sure that it would (if it wasn't tied to something).
I'm assuming the plane is not under it's own power at all.
Plane is not moving at all horizontally, can only move vertically.ATG wrote:
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction).
Will the plane be able to take off?
"This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane'sMiguel Diaz wrote:
tbh in the thread he says the plane is standing on a treadmill, standing implies lack of motion, he never mentions the plane accelerating, therefore in this problem neither the plane nor the treadmill are moving and therefore the plane will not lift off.
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction)."
the conveyor belt matches the plane's speed which is not moving "A plane is standing on a runway that can move"
Watch the video I posted. It's only moving relative to the belt until it gets to speed, and after that point it's completely independent of the belt and can move forward with thrust increase, as a plane on flat ground could.adam1503 wrote:
The plane can only fly if it gets lift, and that is achieved by air passing over the wings. So if its moving on a treadmill, its moving relative to the belt, but stationary relative to the air... so I dont think it can fly.
Actually, this episode is old. I've seen it before. Plane won't take off IIRC (90% sure). You need the lift from the air, just the wheels moving won't make it take off.
Thats right, when the plane is moving with exactly the opposite velocity of the belt, it is stationary relative to the room. The plane wont take off, however, as there is no lift generated.BlackKoala wrote:
Watch the video I posted. It's only moving relative to the belt until it gets to speed, and after that point it's completely independent of the belt and can move forward with thrust increase, as a plane on flat ground could.adam1503 wrote:
The plane can only fly if it gets lift, and that is achieved by air passing over the wings. So if its moving on a treadmill, its moving relative to the belt, but stationary relative to the air... so I dont think it can fly.
Haha, I'll definitely watch. I remember that debate.
Looks like we'll see if the "final word" was right.chuyskywalker wrote:
NO THE PLANE WILL NEVER TAKE OFF.
That IS the answer. If you think it isn't, please go take a physics class and present your findings in an oral report so everyone can laugh at you and your messy hair.
I'm closing this -- I think 6 pages is enough. Sheesh.
Precisely.adam1503 wrote:
The plane can only fly if it gets lift, and that is achieved by air passing over the wings. So if its moving on a treadmill, its moving relative to the belt, but stationary relative to the air... so I dont think it can fly.
End of debate.
The plane on the giant runway does not move through the air. Just because the wheels spin doesnt mean its moving.
If the plane is powered by jet engines.
They need to measure the speed of the plane through the air, not on the runway.
It's a fun thing to think about but it takes a little bit of logic to work out =]
15 more years! 15 more years!
ok what are we discussing here is it that the plane matching the speed of a treadmill will take of, or a plane could accelerate off a treadmill and take off, by that i mean its moving forward in relation to a stationary object at take off speed and lifts off.
That had nothing to do with lift. Infact if anything it showed that the plane gained no lift.BlackKoala wrote:
WRONGFlaming_Maniac wrote:
Only if the air being moved by actually touching the moving treadmill is going fast enough to get the airspeed at the wings up high enough.
Physics say that the plane will take off. Since the wheels on the plane spin freely (other than the initial friction of the bearings/axel), once that's broken the plane will be able to accelerate freely from the conveyor. Air speed plays little role in this, as the plane moving is going under the force of it's engine. Much like one taxing.
As long as the MB's don't fuck this up, the plane flies.
what if you put some type of fan infront of the treadmill?adam1503 wrote:
Thats right, when the plane is moving with exactly the opposite velocity of the belt, it is stationary relative to the room. The plane wont take off, however, as there is no lift generated.BlackKoala wrote:
Watch the video I posted. It's only moving relative to the belt until it gets to speed, and after that point it's completely independent of the belt and can move forward with thrust increase, as a plane on flat ground could.adam1503 wrote:
The plane can only fly if it gets lift, and that is achieved by air passing over the wings. So if its moving on a treadmill, its moving relative to the belt, but stationary relative to the air... so I dont think it can fly.
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