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2007-12-12 11:40:49
LaidBackNinja
Pony Slaystation
+343|6709|Charlie One Alpha

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

PluggedValve wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:


Will you people fucking stop with that.  God that is annoying.  You sound like Al-Q when you say that.  Grow up.
It's sadly funny because the US IS proclaimed as the land of the free.  Yet people from other countries laugh when they hear it.  NOT because were Al Q, but because it is such a hollow statement coming from a country that does wiretaps; has an island prison camp to send people, so they can be tortured without falling under US law
youre right, now we can all stop being such immature condesending pieces of cow patty by constantly saying this shit.  that shit is annoying and only weakens a persons argument.  grow up.  God I hate that shit and I loose all respect for somebody who uses that phrase or any corruption of that phrase to help with their anti-american argument.  and dont get it wrong, when someone stoops as low as to quote the ever famous line "land of the free...eh"  it moves their side of debate from objective to blatantly anti-yankee.   to continue a dialogue with such a person only means that you are just as bad as that person.


America, Land of the free.  Get the fuck over it.
So no actual reason for people not to use that argument?
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine SecuROM slapping your face with its dick -- forever." -George Orwell
2007-12-12 11:41:07
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6223|Escea

We should call it a 'concentrated downpour'
2007-12-12 11:42:51
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6761

Ok Cam, now how about a solution to my question.  I would love to see how you would get the info out of someone.
2007-12-12 11:47:41
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6223|Escea

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ok Cam, now how about a solution to my question.  I would love to see how you would get the info out of someone.
lol kneecappin
2007-12-12 11:48:57
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ok Cam, now how about a solution to my question.  I would love to see how you would get the info out of someone.
Look usmarine, if you can't get the info out of the guy by legitimate means you fucking shove him in the slammer or solitary confinement or whatever, charge him/try him if you have any evidence and you move the fuck on. An encyclopaedia of bullshit and forced confessions were spouted at the Brits while they carried out their internment/torture campaign during the 70s in Northern Ireland. John McCain, himself a Vietnamese POW who can now no longer lift his arms above his shoulders from the torture he suffered, condemns the practice as barbaric and more importantly FUTILE. You have to choose other methods of combatting terror organisations - they operate in isolated cells that rarely communicate with each other anyway so any information you do get, if true, will likely be obsolete or practically useless. You need to take a Guerrilla Warfare 101 class. The Brits gleaned their info on the IRA through INFILTRATION not torture.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-12-12 11:50:50)

2007-12-12 11:51:40
LaidBackNinja
Pony Slaystation
+343|6709|Charlie One Alpha

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ok Cam, now how about a solution to my question.  I would love to see how you would get the info out of someone.
You ask them. Duh.

But seriously, there's tons of things you could try. Truth drug, for example (however, I'm not a doctor so I don't know exactly how that stuff works), but the point is that torture is just never acceptable. NEVER. Even if that means you just don't get the info.

Torture is not a reliable source anyway, and any info would have to be confirmed by other sources, thus negating the purpose of torture in the first place.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine SecuROM slapping your face with its dick -- forever." -George Orwell
2007-12-12 12:03:35
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6761

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ok Cam, now how about a solution to my question.  I would love to see how you would get the info out of someone.
Look usmarine, if you can't get the info out of the guy by legitimate means you fucking shove him in the slammer or solitary confinement or whatever, charge him/try him if you have any evidence and you move the fuck on.
What if you are trying to prevent an attack or save lives within a matter of hours / days?  Sorry, but your method would not work.
2007-12-12 12:15:40
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6223|Escea

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ok Cam, now how about a solution to my question.  I would love to see how you would get the info out of someone.
Look usmarine, if you can't get the info out of the guy by legitimate means you fucking shove him in the slammer or solitary confinement or whatever, charge him/try him if you have any evidence and you move the fuck on.
What if you are trying to prevent an attack or save lives within a matter of hours / days?  Sorry, but your method would not work.
I agree, then you have to hold a guy and pay for him to be held etc without using him to possibly gain some good intel that can save lives, sticking in the slammer isn't gonna help prevent anything.
2007-12-12 12:17:36
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ok Cam, now how about a solution to my question.  I would love to see how you would get the info out of someone.
Look usmarine, if you can't get the info out of the guy by legitimate means you fucking shove him in the slammer or solitary confinement or whatever, charge him/try him if you have any evidence and you move the fuck on.
What if you are trying to prevent an attack or save lives within a matter of hours / days?  Sorry, but your method would not work.
lol. The likelihood is that the guy will hold out for the few hours/days necessary or there will be measures in place to stop the plan/change it if one of the operatives goes missing. Do you need me to give you a short course on guerrilla war?
2007-12-12 12:20:15
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6761

CameronPoe wrote:

lol. The likelihood is that the guy will hold out for the few hours/days necessary or there will be measures in place to stop the plan/change it if one of the operatives goes missing. Do you need me to give you a short course on guerrilla war?
I am glad you have the solution to all problems.  I am glad you work for the CIA.  I am glad you understand war.  I wish you were supreme commander of the world since you know all the answers and what is right and what is wrong.
2007-12-12 12:25:20
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lol. The likelihood is that the guy will hold out for the few hours/days necessary or there will be measures in place to stop the plan/change it if one of the operatives goes missing. Do you need me to give you a short course on guerrilla war?
I am glad you have the solution to all problems.  I am glad you work for the CIA.  I am glad you understand war.  I wish you were supreme commander of the world since you know all the answers and what is right and what is wrong.
I'm just pointing out some rather obvious holes in your fantastic terrorism stopping masterplan, you don't need to be Mr. Bond to work out the flaws. We went through all this shit in the 70s in Ireland.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-12-12 12:26:26)

2007-12-12 12:26:48
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6761

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm just pointing out some rather obvious holes in your fantastic terrorism stopping masterplan, you don't need to be Mr. Bond to work out the flaws.
Well you know ALL the successes of the CIA and FBI because you have access to that.  So you know.  I am glad they tell you.
2007-12-12 12:33:16
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm just pointing out some rather obvious holes in your fantastic terrorism stopping masterplan, you don't need to be Mr. Bond to work out the flaws.
Well you know ALL the successes of the CIA and FBI because you have access to that.  So you know.  I am glad they tell you.
Yeah all of them successes that are leading to a steady upward trend in acts of terrorism across the world... pfft.
2007-12-12 12:34:20
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6761

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm just pointing out some rather obvious holes in your fantastic terrorism stopping masterplan, you don't need to be Mr. Bond to work out the flaws.
Well you know ALL the successes of the CIA and FBI because you have access to that.  So you know.  I am glad they tell you.
Yeah all of them successes that are leading to a steady upward trend in acts of terrorism across the world... pfft.
ok Cam.  Go have a pint.

Last edited by usmarine2005 (2007-12-12 12:34:33)

2007-12-12 12:36:11
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:


Well you know ALL the successes of the CIA and FBI because you have access to that.  So you know.  I am glad they tell you.
Yeah all of them successes that are leading to a steady upward trend in acts of terrorism across the world... pfft.
ok Cam.  Go have a pint.
No I'm saving myself for tomorrow - section lunch at work: half day, meal in a restaurant and free booze all evening. W00T!
2007-12-12 12:36:20
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|6829|Grapevine, TX

M.O.A.B wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


Ok, but there are many other methods in the middle.
no, geneva conventions only requires POW's 4 things to say his captors.  Name, rank, service number and date of birth.
Never knew you'd gave your DOB as well, learn something new every day .

Also aren't terrorists not recognized under Geneva?
NO, only uniformed conventional armies are covered by the umbrella of the Geneva Conventions Act.

Water boarding, I agree is abuse, but torture? No. I say take a deeeeep breath, Mr. Terrorist.~~ by the way have you seen a Dentist lately?  Because you're about to get a thorough mouth washing... gargle, gargle, gargle. Rinse and repeat.
2007-12-12 12:36:54
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6223|Escea

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm just pointing out some rather obvious holes in your fantastic terrorism stopping masterplan, you don't need to be Mr. Bond to work out the flaws.
Well you know ALL the successes of the CIA and FBI because you have access to that.  So you know.  I am glad they tell you.
Yeah all of them successes that are leading to a steady upward trend in acts of terrorism across the world... pfft.
I can recall......that Algiers bombing and er....umm, nope I'm currently lost, as far as I see there is no increase in terrorism acts and the amount of news we've heard about attacks in iraq appears to have subsided as well.
2007-12-12 12:47:12
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

M.O.A.B wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:


Well you know ALL the successes of the CIA and FBI because you have access to that.  So you know.  I am glad they tell you.
Yeah all of them successes that are leading to a steady upward trend in acts of terrorism across the world... pfft.
I can recall......that Algiers bombing and er....umm, nope I'm currently lost, as far as I see there is no increase in terrorism acts and the amount of news we've heard about attacks in iraq appears to have subsided as well.
Erm. The CIA have released reports stating that since the invasion of Iraq global terrorism has in fact increased.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/30/te … index.html
2007-12-12 13:14:01
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6445|The Land of Scott Walker

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Look usmarine, if you can't get the info out of the guy by legitimate means you fucking shove him in the slammer or solitary confinement or whatever, charge him/try him if you have any evidence and you move the fuck on.
What if you are trying to prevent an attack or save lives within a matter of hours / days?  Sorry, but your method would not work.
lol. The likelihood is that the guy will hold out for the few hours/days necessary or there will be measures in place to stop the plan/change it if one of the operatives goes missing.
What if they speed up the plan when one goes missing?  Wouldn't that make more sense that delaying and giving the target more time to repel the attack?  See, now I'm an expert.   

CameronPoe wrote:

...you don't need to be Mr. Bond to work out the flaws.
Bourne would kick Bond's ass tbh.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2007-12-12 13:23:11)

2007-12-12 13:23:41
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6223|Escea

CameronPoe wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


Yeah all of them successes that are leading to a steady upward trend in acts of terrorism across the world... pfft.
I can recall......that Algiers bombing and er....umm, nope I'm currently lost, as far as I see there is no increase in terrorism acts and the amount of news we've heard about attacks in iraq appears to have subsided as well.
Erm. The CIA have released reports stating that since the invasion of Iraq global terrorism has in fact increased.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/30/te … index.html
Ok name all massive terrorist attacks that have occured, not within Iraq, in the past two years.
2007-12-12 15:18:55
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

Stingray24 wrote:

What if they speed up the plan when one goes missing?  Wouldn't that make more sense that delaying and giving the target more time to repel the attack?  See, now I'm an expert.
Rule NUMERO UNO in guerrilla warfare, as laid out by Senor Guevara: never engage in a mission that carries a significant chance of failure. It is always preferable to abort. A guerrilla army cannot afford to lose an engagement or fuck up a mission because it generally has poorer equipment and less men.

Stingray24 wrote:

Bourne would kick Bond's ass tbh.
I prefer Bourne too tbh.
2007-12-12 15:23:22
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

M.O.A.B wrote:

Ok name all massive terrorist attacks that have occured, not within Iraq, in the past two years.
That's like asking where all the fish are, excluding those in the ocean. Although you could take a look at the resurgent Taleban in Helmand province, Afghanistan.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-12-12 15:23:47)

2007-12-12 15:24:44
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6621|London, England

M.O.A.B wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:


I can recall......that Algiers bombing and er....umm, nope I'm currently lost, as far as I see there is no increase in terrorism acts and the amount of news we've heard about attacks in iraq appears to have subsided as well.
Erm. The CIA have released reports stating that since the invasion of Iraq global terrorism has in fact increased.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/30/te … index.html
Ok name all massive terrorist attacks that have occured, not within Iraq, in the past two years.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
2007-12-12 15:38:15
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6290|Éire
I like how the pro-torture guys here all ask for an effective alternative from Cameronpoe and when he suggests one - infiltration - they just ignore it or throw silly insults like "I'm glad you have all the answers to the world's problems" or "I'm glad you work for the C.I.A."

You keep asking "What if you have to find out information within a short space of time?" but the fact is I think you've been watching too much 24. By then it's dangerously close to being too late and as Cam pointed out your torture victim will most likely hold out for the required amount of time or the terror cell will have a contingency plan. If you can successfully infiltrate these cells it won't get as close as a Jack Bauer style scenario.

In response to M.O.A.B's request ...not everyone has time to troll the internet but off the top of my head I can think off...

The bombing in Pakistan that nearly killed Benazir Bhutto.
The bombing in Algeria recently.
The battle of the Red Mosque in Islamabad, Pakistan.
The bomb blast that killed the Lebanese army's chief of operations today.
The Jemaah Islamiyah bomb attack in Thailand on new year's eve 2006.

I found a nice biased webite for you too.

Ha ha Mekstizzle beat me to it!^^

Last edited by Braddock (2007-12-12 15:40:46)

2007-12-12 15:49:45
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6223|Escea

Braddock wrote:

I like how the pro-torture guys here all ask for an effective alternative from Cameronpoe and when he suggests one - infiltration - they just ignore it or throw silly insults like "I'm glad you have all the answers to the world's problems" or "I'm glad you work for the C.I.A."

You keep asking "What if you have to find out information within a short space of time?" but the fact is I think you've been watching too much 24. By then it's dangerously close to being too late and as Cam pointed out your torture victim will most likely hold out for the required amount of time or the terror cell will have a contingency plan. If you can successfully infiltrate these cells it won't get as close as a Jack Bauer style scenario.

In response to M.O.A.B's request ...not everyone has time to troll the internet but off the top of my head I can think off...

The bombing in Pakistan that nearly killed Benazir Bhutto.
The bombing in Algeria recently.
The battle of the Red Mosque in Islamabad, Pakistan.
The bomb blast that killed the Lebanese army's chief of operations today.
The Jemaah Islamiyah bomb attack in Thailand on new year's eve 2006.

I found a nice biased webite for you too.

Ha ha Mekstizzle beat me to it!^^
Nice at least someone looked for something, now give us the solution to stoppin the nutjobs without use of force, also I wouldn't call the Red Mosque a terrorist attack as it was a siege.

 

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