Im not condoning torture, but do you realize a person is not required to say anything under geneva code? they are also required 8 days of vacation for every year that they are confined, among other things.sergeriver wrote:
You interrogate him under the Geneva Conventions.usmarine2005 wrote:
Ok. So what is YOUR solution then?IG-Calibre wrote:
there are plenty of other victims as well not so well highlighted. I did some work with prisoners "interrogated" in Castlereagh barracks as part of my university work and it was one of the most harrowing experiences of my life tbf. All it left were people with fractured broken minds & spirits, there only crime was police suspicion..
Let me give you an example:
You find out someone is going to blow up a building in your country. You find someone who you think may have information that could stop that attack. So, how do you get the info? How do you get the info out of someone who is sworn to kill you?
Ok, but there are many other methods in the middle.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Im not condoning torture, but do you realize a person is not required to say anything under geneva code? they are also required 8 days of vacation for every year that they are confined, among other things.sergeriver wrote:
You interrogate him under the Geneva Conventions.usmarine2005 wrote:
Ok. So what is YOUR solution then?
Let me give you an example:
You find out someone is going to blow up a building in your country. You find someone who you think may have information that could stop that attack. So, how do you get the info? How do you get the info out of someone who is sworn to kill you?
There's a book called "into the dark" 30years in the RUC (about our former police force) one of the surprising things about the book is how many people actually willingly gave info to the police about seriously fucked up atrocities that were being planned, because the work of sociopaths disgusts most "normal" people (no matter their religious hew), who couldn't live with themselves knowing what carnage was going to happen. It didn't require torture at all tbf..
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-12-12 09:24:35)
no, geneva conventions only requires POW's 4 things to say his captors. Name, rank, service number and date of birth.sergeriver wrote:
Ok, but there are many other methods in the middle.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Im not condoning torture, but do you realize a person is not required to say anything under geneva code? they are also required 8 days of vacation for every year that they are confined, among other things.sergeriver wrote:
You interrogate him under the Geneva Conventions.
When I say in the middle I mean you can go further than the Geneva Conventions, but waterboarding is too much.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
no, geneva conventions only requires POW's 4 things to say his captors. Name, rank, service number and date of birth.sergeriver wrote:
Ok, but there are many other methods in the middle.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Im not condoning torture, but do you realize a person is not required to say anything under geneva code? they are also required 8 days of vacation for every year that they are confined, among other things.
Im interested to know what youre thinking of. You see, anything that comes to my mind will be against geneva. What would you do?sergeriver wrote:
When I say in the middle I mean you can go further than the Geneva Conventions, but waterboarding is too much.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
no, geneva conventions only requires POW's 4 things to say his captors. Name, rank, service number and date of birth.sergeriver wrote:
Ok, but there are many other methods in the middle.
Psychology.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Im interested to know what youre thinking of. You see, anything that comes to my mind will be against geneva. What would you do?sergeriver wrote:
When I say in the middle I mean you can go further than the Geneva Conventions, but waterboarding is too much.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
no, geneva conventions only requires POW's 4 things to say his captors. Name, rank, service number and date of birth.
you could do better than that serge, I could take that apart all day. Everything in a prisoner interrogation is psychological. Waterboarding, thumb screws, power outlets, cutting. the point is to achieve a psychological effect, the fear of more pain or death perhaps, to get the information that they may or may not have. Im in Psychological Operations serge.sergeriver wrote:
Psychology.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Im interested to know what youre thinking of. You see, anything that comes to my mind will be against geneva. What would you do?sergeriver wrote:
When I say in the middle I mean you can go further than the Geneva Conventions, but waterboarding is too much.
Waterboarding is physical, lol. You know I meant only words, not physical abuse. That's it.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
you could do better than that serge, I could take that apart all day. Everything in a prisoner interrogation is psychological. Waterboarding, thumb screws, power outlets, cutting. the point is to achieve a psychological effect, the fear of more pain or death perhaps, to get the information that they may or may not have. Im in Psychological Operations serge.sergeriver wrote:
Psychology.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Im interested to know what youre thinking of. You see, anything that comes to my mind will be against geneva. What would you do?
waterboarding may be physical, but thats not the effect that is intended. the goal is to make the subject feel like they are drowning and whatever psychological effects that may follow to promote information gathering.sergeriver wrote:
Waterboarding is physical, lol. You know I meant only words, not physical abuse. That's it.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
you could do better than that serge, I could take that apart all day. Everything in a prisoner interrogation is psychological. Waterboarding, thumb screws, power outlets, cutting. the point is to achieve a psychological effect, the fear of more pain or death perhaps, to get the information that they may or may not have. Im in Psychological Operations serge.sergeriver wrote:
Psychology.
But regardless, any kind of psychological duress COULD be considered torture. Would you have them looking at Rorschach paintings?
Lol, maybe. I really don't know many torture methods that don't involve physical abuse, but there should be some. Maybe you could explain to us some of them coz I don't know.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
waterboarding may be physical, but thats not the effect that is intended. the goal is to make the subject feel like they are drowning and whatever psychological effects that may follow to promote information gathering.sergeriver wrote:
Waterboarding is physical, lol. You know I meant only words, not physical abuse. That's it.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
you could do better than that serge, I could take that apart all day. Everything in a prisoner interrogation is psychological. Waterboarding, thumb screws, power outlets, cutting. the point is to achieve a psychological effect, the fear of more pain or death perhaps, to get the information that they may or may not have. Im in Psychological Operations serge.
But regardless, any kind of psychological duress COULD be considered torture. Would you have them looking at Rorschach paintings?
would you consider drugging a subject torture? what about listening to really loud, really bad music.
Like Spice Girls? That would be effective IMO, lol.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
would you consider drugging a subject torture? what about listening to really loud, really bad music.
you laugh, but some methods of interrogation are blasting some shitty, loud music at the individual for a very, very, very long time. This method helps aggravate the subject and is used with other methods of interrogation to get results.
I think water-boarding is worse than listening loud music.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
you laugh, but some methods of interrogation are blasting some shitty, loud music at the individual for a very, very, very long time. This method helps aggravate the subject and is used with other methods of interrogation to get results.
but, there is still a large part of the world that says loud music is torture and consider it just as bad as water boarding (fake drowning).
Not me, I prefer listening to loud music. Water-boarding is outrageous. Is it true that they use water-boarding for training?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
but, there is still a large part of the world that says loud music is torture and consider it just as bad as water boarding (fake drowning).
put it this way, in order to graduate some portions of SERE (survival, evasion, resistance, escape) school, you have to sign a waver where you give them permission to forcibly break one of your bones.sergeriver wrote:
Not me, I prefer listening to loud music. Water-boarding is outrageous. Is it true that they use water-boarding for training?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
but, there is still a large part of the world that says loud music is torture and consider it just as bad as water boarding (fake drowning).
I see, so yes.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
put it this way, in order to graduate some portions of SERE (survival, evasion, resistance, escape) school, you have to sign a waver where you give them permission to forcibly break one of your bones.sergeriver wrote:
Not me, I prefer listening to loud music. Water-boarding is outrageous. Is it true that they use water-boarding for training?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
but, there is still a large part of the world that says loud music is torture and consider it just as bad as water boarding (fake drowning).
It's sadly funny because the US IS proclaimed as the land of the free. Yet people from other countries laugh when they hear it. NOT because were Al Q, but because it is such a hollow statement coming from a country that does wiretaps; has an island prison camp to send people, so they can be tortured without falling under US law.usmarine2005 wrote:
Will you people fucking stop with that. God that is annoying. You sound like Al-Q when you say that. Grow up.Spark wrote:
Sooooooo.... it's OK for you but not anyone else?
Leader of freedom... sure.
Theres an old saying: "give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he... has to go get a liscense that he cant afford, then he needs an open flame permit to cook the fish."
The irony in calling any country (let alone the US) a free country is silly. The only true freedom we have is when we are born, The laws of nature. If i drink a bunch of beer i will get drunk. If i fall from a chair i will hit the floor. If you need a permit to feed yourself you are not free. Prove me wrong.
youre right, now we can all stop being such immature condesending pieces of cow patty by constantly saying this shit. that shit is annoying and only weakens a persons argument. grow up. God I hate that shit and I loose all respect for somebody who uses that phrase or any corruption of that phrase to help with their anti-american argument. and dont get it wrong, when someone stoops as low as to quote the ever famous line "land of the free...eh" it moves their side of debate from objective to blatantly anti-yankee. to continue a dialogue with such a person only means that you are just as bad as that person.PluggedValve wrote:
It's sadly funny because the US IS proclaimed as the land of the free. Yet people from other countries laugh when they hear it. NOT because were Al Q, but because it is such a hollow statement coming from a country that does wiretaps; has an island prison camp to send people, so they can be tortured without falling under US lawusmarine2005 wrote:
Will you people fucking stop with that. God that is annoying. You sound like Al-Q when you say that. Grow up.Spark wrote:
Sooooooo.... it's OK for you but not anyone else?
Leader of freedom... sure.
America, Land of the free. Get the fuck over it.
Never knew you'd gave your DOB as well, learn something new every day .GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
no, geneva conventions only requires POW's 4 things to say his captors. Name, rank, service number and date of birth.sergeriver wrote:
Ok, but there are many other methods in the middle.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Im not condoning torture, but do you realize a person is not required to say anything under geneva code? they are also required 8 days of vacation for every year that they are confined, among other things.
Also aren't terrorists not recognised under Geneva?
Gitmo!M.O.A.B wrote:
Also aren't terrorists not recognised under Geneva?
Too bad Cam does not have the stones to say anything to you.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
youre right, now we can all stop being such immature condesending pieces of cow patty by constantly saying this shit. that shit is annoying and only weakens a persons argument. grow up. God I hate that shit and I loose all respect for somebody who uses that phrase or any corruption of that phrase to help with their anti-american argument. and dont get it wrong, when someone stoops as low as to quote the ever famous line "land of the free...eh" it moves their side of debate from objective to blatantly anti-yankee. to continue a dialogue with such a person only means that you are just as bad as that person.PluggedValve wrote:
It's sadly funny because the US IS proclaimed as the land of the free. Yet people from other countries laugh when they hear it. NOT because were Al Q, but because it is such a hollow statement coming from a country that does wiretaps; has an island prison camp to send people, so they can be tortured without falling under US lawusmarine2005 wrote:
Will you people fucking stop with that. God that is annoying. You sound like Al-Q when you say that. Grow up.
America, Land of the free. Get the fuck over it.
Also, as I figured, when I ask people in this thread for a solution, mainly Cam & CO, I get no real answer. I figured as much, but it is nice to see in writing.
Pardon? The anti-American jibe doesn't wash, and this goes for both you and GS, because what is this thread exactly about? It has partly digressed into a discussion over whether THE CIA should have been using WATERBOARDING and whether or not it was right to do so. It was an American-themed thread. It was not about the MI5, Mossad, Hamas or whoever. Now whether you guys concede it or not the US tries to legitimise its actions on the global scene with it's 'freedom', 'liberty' and 'democracy' platform and rhetoric. Those kind of values are incompatible with the use of waterboarding, i.e. torture. As such, the US is being somewhat hypocritical. It is fair to say that many many other nations are hypocritical on a vast array of issues also but what the OP referred to was CIA waterboarding. Don't expect not to hear your beloved USA talked about when it is a central element of the fucking OP. The issue that many people have with US foreign policy is that the actions don't fit the words and they are probably venting a little through attacks on this procedure which the CIA have wisely dispensed with.usmarine2005 wrote:
Too bad Cam does not have the stones to say anything to you.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
youre right, now we can all stop being such immature condesending pieces of cow patty by constantly saying this shit. that shit is annoying and only weakens a persons argument. grow up. God I hate that shit and I loose all respect for somebody who uses that phrase or any corruption of that phrase to help with their anti-american argument. and dont get it wrong, when someone stoops as low as to quote the ever famous line "land of the free...eh" it moves their side of debate from objective to blatantly anti-yankee. to continue a dialogue with such a person only means that you are just as bad as that person.
America, Land of the free. Get the fuck over it.
Also, as I figured, when I ask people in this thread for a solution, mainly Cam & CO, I get no real answer. I figured as much, but it is nice to see in writing.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-12-12 11:35:07)