Poll

Are you a Christian?

I would like to be 50% 50% - 157 50% 50% - 157
I don't want anything to do with that! 55% 55% - 174 44% 44% - 140
Total: 314
cyborg_pirate
Member
+6|6742|taiwan and hong kong

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

cyborg_pirate wrote:

spastic bullet wrote:


Evolution has nothing to say on the matter of whether there is a creator or not.  It sounds to me like you don't know a thing about it.
but neither is evolution science really...and i think that person was just using religion as an "expression"
yos <3
Evolution is a scietific theory. It is backed up by lots of evidence. All evolution says on the subject of a creator is that there is nothing to suggest there is one. The way scientific theory works is, if there's nothing to indicate something does exist, it is assumed not to exist.

Creation is backed up by no evidence at all and just begs the question, who created the creator?
neither is evolution backed up by evidence..cuz really...the evidence that they have now need other ones to prove them right..but they can't find it..a.nd so actaully..both doesn't have any evidence..but here...if u believe that the almighty God created the earth...it actually does make a lil sense..cuz the bible came from dead sea scrolls from a long long time ago...
yo's
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6795

JaMDuDe wrote:

The same people who saw Jesus do the things he did wrote the books. It wasnt passed down by mouth and eventually someone wrote it. And the people who saw Jesus do the things he did were very good at memorizing things. We do have very early manuscripts(less than 100 years after Jesus) that werent translated.
John 3:10 - And the Lord spake saying "Memorise these amazing events. I trust that you will given that you are 'very good at memorizing things'."
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6940

cyborg_pirate wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

cyborg_pirate wrote:


but neither is evolution science really...and i think that person was just using religion as an "expression"
yos <3
Evolution is a scietific theory. It is backed up by lots of evidence. All evolution says on the subject of a creator is that there is nothing to suggest there is one. The way scientific theory works is, if there's nothing to indicate something does exist, it is assumed not to exist.

Creation is backed up by no evidence at all and just begs the question, who created the creator?
neither is evolution backed up by evidence..cuz really...the evidence that they have now need other ones to prove them right..but they can't find it..a.nd so actaully..both doesn't have any evidence..but here...if u believe that the almighty God created the earth...it actually does make a lil sense..cuz the bible came from dead sea scrolls from a long long time ago...
yo's
Please, please do some research before saying things like that. Go read a book about evolution. Take a biology class at your local community college. Go to any number of web sites on the internet on the subject.

http://mcb.harvard.edu/BioLinks.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_evolution

That should get you started.
ashleyhall
Member
+15|6922|Somerset
the people who saw Jesus do the things he did were very good at memorizing things.
Hmmm, the same people that saw him split the sea, turn rivers into wine, come back from the dead....sounds like X-Men 4 to me - do you not think those that supposidely witnessed such events were on acid??

How can any intelligent minded person even start to consider that such nonsense could actually have happened? Particularly 2000 years ago with no such events since!?
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6933|San Francisco
Looks like someone doesn't understand the concept of "Chinese Whispers" in regards to the story "being passed on before being written."  He might need to read Beowulf as well...
TheDrNailsGuy
Member
+5|6956
Athiests and Christians or any other religions are ignorant.  They all dictate you must believe there is or isn't a god, when in all our hearts we have no idea.  Athiests WANT to believe there is no god, so they SAY there isn't one.  Christians and other believers of god WANT to believe there is a god, so they SAY they KNOW there is one.  Just because I BELIEVE the world is flat doesn't make it so.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6933|San Francisco
The difference is that most Atheists use logic, reason, and involved observation to come to their philosophical conclusions, and Believers are relying on the direct opposite in strongly wanting to Believe that something is true when it can't be proven either way.  As was posted earlier in the thread, it is highly doubtful that people would remain religious had they not been brought up in a religious atmosphere being told what to believe in.
captain_itchy_pants
Member
+13|6815

Marconius wrote:

The difference is that most Atheists use logic, reason, and involved observation to come to their philosophical conclusions, and Believers are relying on the direct opposite in strongly wanting to Believe that something is true when it can't be proven either way.  As was posted earlier in the thread, it is highly doubtful that people would remain religious had they not been brought up in a religious atmosphere being told what to believe in.
You sure have it all wrong. Christians do use Logic, Reason and Observation.

Evolutioin is a lie that was told to us through our failing and corrupt school system. When religion was taken out of the schools, due to our misreading of the constitution, all hell broke loose.  Kids are afraid to walk the hallways, drugs rampant, sex is everywhere and this country is goin to hell in a handbasket. Bring back prayer and I guarantee it will get a lot better.

Why is it a bad thing to let creation be taught in school? Science and Religion are one in the same, it is a belief and that is what religion is. The same as atheism. Without religion there can be no science.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6795

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

Marconius wrote:

The difference is that most Atheists use logic, reason, and involved observation to come to their philosophical conclusions, and Believers are relying on the direct opposite in strongly wanting to Believe that something is true when it can't be proven either way.  As was posted earlier in the thread, it is highly doubtful that people would remain religious had they not been brought up in a religious atmosphere being told what to believe in.
You sure have it all wrong. Christians do use Logic, Reason and Observation.

Evolutioin is a lie that was told to us through our failing and corrupt school system. When religion was taken out of the schools, due to our misreading of the constitution, all hell broke loose.  Kids are afraid to walk the hallways, drugs rampant, sex is everywhere and this country is goin to hell in a handbasket. Bring back prayer and I guarantee it will get a lot better.

Why is it a bad thing to let creation be taught in school? Science and Religion are one in the same, it is a belief and that is what religion is. The same as atheism. Without religion there can be no science.
Bring back negative karma.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6933|San Francisco

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

You sure have it all wrong. Christians do use Logic, Reason and Observation.

Evolutioin is a lie that was told to us through our failing and corrupt school system. When religion was taken out of the schools, due to our misreading of the constitution, all hell broke loose.  Kids are afraid to walk the hallways, drugs rampant, sex is everywhere and this country is goin to hell in a handbasket. Bring back prayer and I guarantee it will get a lot better.

Why is it a bad thing to let creation be taught in school? Science and Religion are one in the same, it is a belief and that is what religion is. The same as atheism. Without religion there can be no science.
Wow...reading that physically hurt me.  Way to set yourself back a few hundred years with all of your misguided assumptions.  Seems to be a little more at work than just a "failing school system"...

Before we go any further with that, I strongly recommend you enlighten yourself on creationism vs. evolution.  It's been discussed to death in this thread, especially here, and lastly here.

Seriously, do not post until you've read through those threads, or else it's just going to turn into another one, and those debates just get plain tiring after 50 pages.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6789|CH/BR - in UK

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

Marconius wrote:

The difference is that most Atheists use logic, reason, and involved observation to come to their philosophical conclusions, and Believers are relying on the direct opposite in strongly wanting to Believe that something is true when it can't be proven either way.  As was posted earlier in the thread, it is highly doubtful that people would remain religious had they not been brought up in a religious atmosphere being told what to believe in.
You sure have it all wrong. Christians do use Logic, Reason and Observation.

Evolutioin is a lie that was told to us through our failing and corrupt school system. When religion was taken out of the schools, due to our misreading of the constitution, all hell broke loose.  Kids are afraid to walk the hallways, drugs rampant, sex is everywhere and this country is goin to hell in a handbasket. Bring back prayer and I guarantee it will get a lot better.

Why is it a bad thing to let creation be taught in school? Science and Religion are one in the same, it is a belief and that is what religion is. The same as atheism. Without religion there can be no science.
that is really the most bullshit I've read in 4 lines...
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6976|Salt Lake City

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

Sorry it hurt, next time I will lube up!
How do you figure removing religion from schools was a misreading of the Constitution?

1. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.  If my belief system is one where I am not religious, I have every bit as much right to practice that as you do to practice yours, so don't even start with the crap about the constitution saying freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

2. The public school system is funded by tax dollars.  As a result of that, forcing religion in this arena is a clear violation of church/state separation.  If you want to learn religion in school, go to a private religious school, there are plenty of them around.
Anfidurl
Use the bumper, that's what its for!
+103|6832|Lexington, Kentucky

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

Evolutioin is a lie that was told to us through our failing and corrupt school system.
Why is it a lie? Sorry, but people don't just believe what you say because you say it. Also, why are our schools 'failing' and 'corrupt'?

When religion was taken out of the schools,
Sorry, what was that? Religion is in Churches, Learning is in Schools. Try again, troll.

due to our misreading of the constitution,
Once again, what was misread, and how was it misread?
all hell broke loose.
Define hell. Or is it that School was hell for you, and you never could figure out how to be a socialite apart from like-minded people (who even attribute what is in your toilet to God and not your digestive processes?)

Kids are afraid to walk the hallways,
Define. WHO's kids, why are they afraid, and what is bringing Bible-thumpers to day long prayer-fests going to do to help it? Aside from making school "hell" for Catholics, Buddhists, Sikhs, Pagans, Hindi, Atheist, Jews, etc.

drugs rampant,
Oh really? According to the Office of Applied Studies* drug use among teens in general has gone down. Common logic also dictates that students will use at home and not in a policed, public enviroment like a school. Only those utterly screaming for help (and not being helped by parents) would use in public. But then you lack common sense from a quick reading of your post.

sex is everywhere
Sex is life and life is sex. Without life, there would be no sex -- without sex, there would be no life. Hormones drive people to mate, and only education from parents and teachers can prevent unintended consequences. What do you think people were doing all that time in the Hay Loft of your great-great-grandparents barn? Why do you think the folding back seat of cars in your great-grandparent's generation was called a "rumble seat"? SEX. Now if you can not tolerate the fact your parents had sex to produce you, "Mr. Itchypants" then do the world a favor: cut your dick off and die childless. As we all know someone as ignorant, biased, and closedminded as you will only fail at the job of creating well adjusted children in todays society.

and this country is goin to hell in a handbasket.
Define. Oh, and show me why you are such a poor speller. Could it be you sat around in a group discussing Jesus instead of studying? Also, show me how Bush (the conservative, Bible-bashing hero) has made this country any better by turning it into a near police-state?

Bring back prayer and I guarantee it will get a lot better.
Always get a guarantee in writing. Problem is, prayer in school happens. It never left. Students pray in corners to themselves all the time. What you want isn't a return of prayer, you want prayer to be forced, coerced. Eventually leading to the outcasting of "non-Christians" (translation: anyone who believes any different than you, even if they call themselves Christian and follow Jesus' teachings which you sir DO NOT.)

Why is it a bad thing to let creation be taught in school?
Wait, you want creation to be taught in school? Okay, do like Bush and gut the Sex-Ed program. I 'guarantee' you there will be a sharp increase of students learning about creation. Only... in the bathroom, not the classroom. (As an aside, the offical teaching of Genesis excludes other religions, and as a tax-payer, I want my religion included too. Thus, you should learn about the Flying Spagetti Monster, and his Noodly Creation.)
Since there is no time to include every religion,  we do the best thing possible. We teach Science since it is universally accepted and needed for College entrance. Save the religion teaching for the home and the church. Oh, wait! THERE'S the issue! You aren't being taught by your parents! THAT'S why you want it in school, because this generation's parents are negelent of their duty.

Science and Religion are one in the same, it is a belief and that is what religion is.
Wrong. Science is fact, learned by trial and error. Religion is a belief in all-powerful being(s) which by their nature can not be proven. Proof denies faith, and without faith, God is nothing. QED.*

The same as atheism. Without religion there can be no science.
Atheism isn't the same as science, nor is it the same as Christianity. (Of which you call 'religion' but that really is a blanket term for ALL religions, not just yours) Atheism is being wholly unconcerned with afterlife, God, Churches, etc. Atheism is a lack of religion, just like white is the absence of colour or colour pigmentations. On that note, Gnostism is like black, all colours mixed, (or hyperpigmentation.)

So, care to reply? Be a man and admit your wrongful mistakes -- after all, Jesus did.

*Office of Applied Stats: http://www.drugabusestatistics.samhsa.gov/
*QED: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.

Last edited by Anfidurl (2006-07-13 11:21:16)

captain_itchy_pants
Member
+13|6815
The separation of church and state is a "communist" term and was never and is not in the constitution.  Look it up. So sorry to have pissed people off here but it seems like I have caused a shit storm. LOL

Anfidurul, Why must Christians seclude themselves in corners to pray when every other religion can go and pray when they want. In California one school had a "Muslim" week where they got to dress in burkas, do a mock jihad and learn about the Koran. Or the fact that some kids are taught wican subjects?

Religion was taught in school as well as the church.
Read this book
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic … E_ID=45652
or this one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189137 … p;n=283155

Calling me a Troll for my beliefs is pretty sad. I admit my mistakes but I know that I am right in this. I will never allow my kids to got to a government run school so they can be brainwashed with liberal, atheistic , communist dung.

Sorry you feel this way but I will pray for you and yours.

C-I-P
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6871|949

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

The separation of church and state is a "communist" term and was never and is not in the constitution.

The Founding Fathers wrote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
comprende?

Prayer in schools = a law respecting an establishment of religion

no prayer in schools = does not prohibit free exercise thereof
captain_itchy_pants
Member
+13|6815
Then why oh why is wican, muslim prayer allowed in schools? Every religion except Christianity. Bullshit
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6933|San Francisco
Hmm...the last time I checked, I wasn't being forced to recite a mandatory Wiccan chant or Muslim prayer in my morning classes back in public high school.  Prayer is fine...pray whenever the hell you want in school.  Just don't make everyone else do it with you.

"Prayer in schools" generally means mandatory prayers being instated by school boards to be recited every morning.  It's a political power card that politicians can use to sway votes in highly religious areas, and is ONLY being shunted into the public arena by christians.
captain_itchy_pants
Member
+13|6815
The “separation” phrase so frequently invoked today was rarely mentioned by any of the Founders; and even Jefferson’s explanation of his phrase is diametrically opposed to the manner in which courts apply it today. “Separation of church and state” currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6976|Salt Lake City

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

Then why oh why is wican, muslim prayer allowed in schools? Every religion except Christianity. Bullshit
If that is happening, that is BS.  The separation of church and state means all religions, not just Christian religions.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6789|Southeastern USA
I've never seen anyone forced to pray in a school, you are asked to, in a nondenominational prayer (my graduation prayer was actually delivered by XXXX patel, a Indian Hindu, and I live in the middle of confederate country) that allows everyone to pray to babaji, Jehovah, jebus, gaia, whatever, therefore it is not a law forcing someone to participate, no prayer in schools = denial the free excercis thereof, you have a football game, you have the potential for injury, you have the right to pray for protection, you do not have the right to force someone else to pray, when was the last time you saw security tackle someone for not bowing their head in the opening prayers of say......a nascar race (last sporting event I can think of that I saw a public prayer), I myself use this time as a way to get a good spot in the concession line, the term "make no law respecting the establishment of religion" is in reference to the church of england, everyone has the right not to participate, but this is being perverted into people thinking that they have the right to take away someone else's ability to display their religious symbols, me, I have major issues with god, I say fuck him for some things that have happened to my family, but I'm not going to prevent someone from observing their religious practices
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6933|San Francisco
*BUZZER* Wrong C-I-P.

The founding fathers were trying to pull away from a theocratic government, i.e., a Monarchy, as that was the system that ruled England and Europe up to that point.  The clause allows anyone to practice whatever religion they want (or have no religion without persecutive consequences), and disallows Congress to legislate based on religion.  The Judicial System then interprets this in order to uphold it in cases that attempt to breach it, which can make taxpayer pay money for religious institutions and services which they don't believe in or necessarily agree with.
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6940

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

Evolutioin is a lie that was told to us through our failing and corrupt school system.
Oh really? Clearly you are an expert on evolution and far more knowledgable on the subject than us poor, misguided souls. Perhaps you could enlighten us? You've got about 150 years of science to debunk, I suggest you get started.

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

When religion was taken out of the schools, due to our misreading of the constitution, all hell broke loose.  Kids are afraid to walk the hallways, drugs rampant, sex is everywhere and this country is goin to hell in a handbasket. Bring back prayer and I guarantee it will get a lot better.
As Ken-Jennings pointed out, prayer was taken out of the public school system for a reason. Furthermore, I sincerely doubt that the problems with drugs and sex are due solely to the lack of prayer in the school system. Take Japan, for example. You won't find many christians over there, but they a very low crime rate. The problems you mentioned are a larger sociological concern, and have very little to do with religion. Prayer won't solve it, just like banning gay marriage wont solve the 50% divorce rate.

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

Why is it a bad thing to let creation be taught in school? Science and Religion are one in the same, it is a belief and that is what religion is. The same as atheism. Without religion there can be no science.
It can't be allowed for the same reason prayer is not allowed. If you teach creationism in school, what message are you sending? That God, an intangible being with literally no evidence supporting his existence, is on the same level of fact as gravity, or math. Not everyone who goes to a public school is a christian, and you must respect their religious beliefs as well. To date, evolution is the only solid, reasonable explanation for the diversity of life, and I invite you to prove otherwise.

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

Calling me a Troll for my beliefs is pretty sad. I admit my mistakes but I know that I am right in this. I will never allow my kids to got to a government run school so they can be brainwashed with liberal, atheistic , communist dung.
Just please tell me you won't homeschool them; I can't speak for you children, but I'd hate to be taught by such a close minded person...
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6871|949

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, [the people, in the 1st Amendment,] declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

... no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

The Supreme Court in Everson vs. Board (1947) wrote:

The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'
How is the current meaning different from what it was originally intended to?
captain_itchy_pants
Member
+13|6815
My kids are homeschooled.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6933|San Francisco
My condolences for your kids, especially if you are the one teaching them...

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