BF2S Forums Will the millions Guantanamo inmates win be used for terrorism?

Proberbly. 

Payback's a bitch

Harmor wrote:

Will the millions Guantanamo inmates are probably going to win in their successful wrongful detainment civil suits against the government be used to fund terrorism?

*shrugs* Good question, but ironically, I have a lot less sympathy for them after seeing "Sicko."  Their healthcare was socialized, unlike what any American citizen gets.

To put it more bluntly, the government spends more on providing healthcare for suspected terrorists than on its own law-abiding citizens.

The only people at Gitmo that I feel sorry for are the truly innocent ones, and we may never know how many of them actually were.

First of all., lets not get crazy and say "millions". Its not a giant place and there are not that many inmates there. Doesn't anybody understand that the people at Gitmo are generally the WORST of the WORST prisoners. Do any of you understand that these guys are not the typical prisoners of war? Look at who is there, look at the names and look at what they are responsible for. These are not boy scouts and I would say that almost all of them are there for a very serious crime of terrorism and support of terrorism. Let's not forget too that a lot of info that came from these prisoners has resulted in tracking down other terrorists and plots.

Have the U.S. made a few mistakes or held a few people that may have been innocent...of course....Name me ONE country, ONE government, ONE prison system that isn't or hasn't held innocent prisoners. NO ONE is immune from making that mistake. I'm tired of people making Gitmo out to be a prison like other prisons and acting like these guys don't deserve to be there. What is going to happen now is that these guys are going to be sent to prisons in their home countries. Let's make that clear.....THEIR HOME COUNTRY. Do any of you actually think that these prisoners will get better treatment there? If I had a choice to be held in an American prison or in a prison in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq...etc....I sure as hell would want to be held in an American controlled prison. They will never get the same treatment these guys get now and these guys think they are being tortured now....wait till they go home!!!

Also, everybody needs to understand that Gitmo is being watched under a HUGE microscope. There are tons of human rights groups watching and there are plenty of people like the Red Cross who have access to these guys. I wonder why human rights groups are not scrutinizing prisons/ mass executions in China. I wonder how many innocent people have had their parent pay for that single bullet to the head!! I wonder why these groups aren't using the media to show what really goes on in truly bad prisons around the world....but no...since the U.S. isn't involved, it isn't news worthy. When one Gitmo guy screams torture, the whole world hears about it...but what about all the voices screaming from their dirt cells around the world. I find it to be the height of hypocrisy to keep condemning the U.S. when there is so much more people under much worse situations under severe human rights abuses.

Again, these guys are not boy scouts....there are very few mistakes in who they have and why they there at Gitmo. If you are at Gitmo, you were involved with something far beyond being caught in action. Do you understand how many insurgents, prisoners of war we pick up everyday? They are not all shipped to Gitmo...again, ONLY the WORST of the WORST...that needs to be understood. The U.S. has and will make mistakes but don't sit there and think the U.S is alone in making mistakes. Open your eyes and look around!!!

Last edited by DeathBecomesYu (2007-06-29 19:42:11)

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

First of all., lets not get crazy and say "millions". Its not a giant place and there are not that many inmates there. Doesn't anybody understand that the people at Gitmo are generally the WORST of the WORST prisoners. Do any of you understand that these guys are not the typical prisoners of war? Look at who is there, look at the names and look at what they are responsible for. These are not boy scouts and I would say that almost all of them are there for a very serious crime of terrorism and support of terrorism. Let's not forget too that a lot of info that came from these prisoners has resulted in tracking down other terrorists and plots.

Have the U.S. made a few mistakes or held a few people that may have been innocent...of course....Name me ONE country, ONE government, ONE prison system that isn't or hasn't held innocent prisoners. NO ONE is immune from making that mistake. I'm tired of people making Gitmo out to be a prison like other prisons and acting like these guys don't deserve to be there. What is going to happen now is that these guys are going to be sent to prisons in their home countries. Let's make that clear.....THEIR HOME COUNTRY. Do any of you actually think that these prisoners will get better treatment there? If I had a choice to be held in an American prison or in a prison in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq...etc....I sure as hell would want to be held in an American controlled prison. They will never get the same treatment these guys get now and these guys think they are being tortured now....wait till they go home!!!

Also, everybody needs to understand that Gitmo is being watched under a HUGE microscope. There are tons of human rights groups watching and there are plenty of people like the Red Cross who have access to these guys. I wonder why human rights groups are not scrutinizing prisons/ mass executions in China. I wonder how many innocent people have had their parent pay for that single bullet to the head!! I wonder why these groups aren't using the media to show what really goes on in truly bad prisons around the world....but no...since the U.S. isn't involved, it isn't news worthy. When one Gitmo guy screams torture, the whole world hears about it...but what about all the voices screaming from their dirt cells around the world. I find it to be the height of hypocrisy to keep condemning the U.S. when there is so much more people under much worse situations under severe human rights abuses.

Again, these guys are not boy scouts....there are very few mistakes in who they have and why they there at Gitmo. If you are at Gitmo, you were involved with something far beyond being caught in action. Do you understand how many insurgents, prisoners of war we pick up everyday? They are not all shipped to Gitmo...again, ONLY the WORST of the WORST...that needs to be understood. The U.S. has and will make mistakes but don't sit there and think the U.S is alone in making mistakes. Open your eyes and look around!!!

The difference is that the US put itself up as the "Leader of the Free World", yet it runs a prison system out side of any internationally or US recognised legal system. Before you go off on your rant about these are the "worst of the worst" and not just grunts for a militia in Afghanistan your wrong. The first person charged and held up before these military tribunals was David Hicks you can look up his charge sheet, he is nothing but some adventurous sod who joined the wrong side in Afghanistan he isn't even charged with even shooting at anyone just being apart of a militia of a internationally recognised government.

David Hicks was also a member of the KLA in Kosovo where he wasn't targeted as a terrorist yet he was apart of militia of unrecognised government. If he had joined the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan he would have been a hero, but because he is a grunt for the Taliban he's an "Enemy Combatant"... What the F does that means anyway?

Gitamo is little more than a gulag as run by any good dictator or despot.

Fred[OZ75] wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

First of all., lets not get crazy and say "millions". Its not a giant place and there are not that many inmates there. Doesn't anybody understand that the people at Gitmo are generally the WORST of the WORST prisoners. Do any of you understand that these guys are not the typical prisoners of war? Look at who is there, look at the names and look at what they are responsible for. These are not boy scouts and I would say that almost all of them are there for a very serious crime of terrorism and support of terrorism. Let's not forget too that a lot of info that came from these prisoners has resulted in tracking down other terrorists and plots.

Have the U.S. made a few mistakes or held a few people that may have been innocent...of course....Name me ONE country, ONE government, ONE prison system that isn't or hasn't held innocent prisoners. NO ONE is immune from making that mistake. I'm tired of people making Gitmo out to be a prison like other prisons and acting like these guys don't deserve to be there. What is going to happen now is that these guys are going to be sent to prisons in their home countries. Let's make that clear.....THEIR HOME COUNTRY. Do any of you actually think that these prisoners will get better treatment there? If I had a choice to be held in an American prison or in a prison in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq...etc....I sure as hell would want to be held in an American controlled prison. They will never get the same treatment these guys get now and these guys think they are being tortured now....wait till they go home!!!

Also, everybody needs to understand that Gitmo is being watched under a HUGE microscope. There are tons of human rights groups watching and there are plenty of people like the Red Cross who have access to these guys. I wonder why human rights groups are not scrutinizing prisons/ mass executions in China. I wonder how many innocent people have had their parent pay for that single bullet to the head!! I wonder why these groups aren't using the media to show what really goes on in truly bad prisons around the world....but no...since the U.S. isn't involved, it isn't news worthy. When one Gitmo guy screams torture, the whole world hears about it...but what about all the voices screaming from their dirt cells around the world. I find it to be the height of hypocrisy to keep condemning the U.S. when there is so much more people under much worse situations under severe human rights abuses.

Again, these guys are not boy scouts....there are very few mistakes in who they have and why they there at Gitmo. If you are at Gitmo, you were involved with something far beyond being caught in action. Do you understand how many insurgents, prisoners of war we pick up everyday? They are not all shipped to Gitmo...again, ONLY the WORST of the WORST...that needs to be understood. The U.S. has and will make mistakes but don't sit there and think the U.S is alone in making mistakes. Open your eyes and look around!!!

The difference is that the US put itself up as the "Leader of the Free World", yet it runs a prison system out side of any internationally or US recognised legal system. Before you go off on your rant about these are the "worst of the worst" and not just grunts for a militia in Afghanistan your wrong. The first person charged and held up before these military tribunals was David Hicks you can look up his charge sheet, he is nothing but some adventurous sod who joined the wrong side in Afghanistan he isn't even charged with even shooting at anyone just being apart of a militia of a internationally recognised government.

David Hicks was also a member of the KLA in Kosovo where he wasn't targeted as a terrorist yet he was apart of militia of unrecognised government. If he had joined the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan he would have been a hero, but because he is a grunt for the Taliban he's an "Enemy Combatant"... What the F does that means anyway?

Gitamo is little more than a gulag as run by any good dictator or despot.

And in my post I clearly stated that all is not good and that there is and will be mistakes. Bottom line is that there is much more in this world much worse than Gitmo but we rarely hear or do anything about it. I'm saying that people need to quit focusing on this story because there are tons of innocent people that have no voice at all, all over the world. Cuba and its political prisoners, China , Concentration camps in North Korea, hangings of men and women just because they may be gay or they cheated on their husband, stonings of people because they dated outside of their religion and we could go on and on and on....but of course if it doenst involve American it wont be front news and people here wouldnt have anything to whine about.

san4 wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

First of all., lets not get crazy and say "millions". Its not a giant place and there are not that many inmates there. Doesn't anybody understand that the people at Gitmo are generally the WORST of the WORST prisoners. Do any of you understand that these guys are not the typical prisoners of war? Look at who is there, look at the names and look at what they are responsible for. These are not boy scouts and I would say that almost all of them are there for a very serious crime of terrorism and support of terrorism. Let's not forget too that a lot of info that came from these prisoners has resulted in tracking down other terrorists and plots.

Have the U.S. made a few mistakes or held a few people that may have been innocent...of course....Name me ONE country, ONE government, ONE prison system that isn't or hasn't held innocent prisoners. NO ONE is immune from making that mistake. I'm tired of people making Gitmo out to be a prison like other prisons and acting like these guys don't deserve to be there. What is going to happen now is that these guys are going to be sent to prisons in their home countries. Let's make that clear.....THEIR HOME COUNTRY. Do any of you actually think that these prisoners will get better treatment there? If I had a choice to be held in an American prison or in a prison in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq...etc....I sure as hell would want to be held in an American controlled prison. They will never get the same treatment these guys get now and these guys think they are being tortured now....wait till they go home!!!

Also, everybody needs to understand that Gitmo is being watched under a HUGE microscope. There are tons of human rights groups watching and there are plenty of people like the Red Cross who have access to these guys. I wonder why human rights groups are not scrutinizing prisons/ mass executions in China. I wonder how many innocent people have had their parent pay for that single bullet to the head!! I wonder why these groups aren't using the media to show what really goes on in truly bad prisons around the world....but no...since the U.S. isn't involved, it isn't news worthy. When one Gitmo guy screams torture, the whole world hears about it...but what about all the voices screaming from their dirt cells around the world. I find it to be the height of hypocrisy to keep condemning the U.S. when there is so much more people under much worse situations under severe human rights abuses.

Again, these guys are not boy scouts....there are very few mistakes in who they have and why they there at Gitmo. If you are at Gitmo, you were involved with something far beyond being caught in action. Do you understand how many insurgents, prisoners of war we pick up everyday? They are not all shipped to Gitmo...again, ONLY the WORST of the WORST...that needs to be understood. The U.S. has and will make mistakes but don't sit there and think the U.S is alone in making mistakes. Open your eyes and look around!!!

Gitmo is not under a huge microscope because the evidence used to hold the inmates is secret. The hearings used to determine if inmates are properly held are not adversarial proceedings, nor are they public, and inmates don't get lawyers when their status as illegal enemy combatants is determined. I have tremendous faith in the US justice system and I think it gets it right most of the time. But the system used to decide who should be held in Gitmo is very different from the US justice system. It is more like something out of the middle ages. I have no faith in secret courts relying on secret evidence to hold people who are not represented by lawyers.

There are plenty of terrorists there that deserve to be there and everyone with any brains knows why some of them are there. There are some major terrorists leaders that were caught currently there and we all know why they are there. Yes, we have had some cases like David Hicks, if he is innocent, then that is one mistake....but almost all of those guys deserve to be there. Again, I reiterate this, there is a movement to send these guys back to their home countries for imprisonment.......like I said.....good luck getting treated like you have been treated in those countries.

Probably what will happen is that when Gitmo is closed, when some of them are sent back to their countries, our media and people like you wont have anything to say about it. Will they be followed and reported on to see if they are being treated well.....in a while, the news and most people wont even remember and would care less. I am not defending Gitmo...what I am saying is that there is far worse going on that nobody seems to care about. Since we are the U.S. then it is always front page news and a lot of people get a very negative view of us. But I wonder why there isnt such an outcry about what goes on all over the place. How come we dont see any posts about human rights abuses in many countries far worse than U.S. and Gitmo. Its hypocrisy......people are people no matter what prison or country they are in and its sad that people solely focus on America so much and in these forums it seems to be 2 targets on just about every post....America and Israel. Use search....pretty easy to see the truth here.

Turquoise wrote:

To put it more bluntly, the government spends more on providing healthcare for suspected terrorists than on its own law-abiding citizens.

Same goes for the amount spent on torture.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

specifically a labor camp

Not necessarily, no.

Last edited by Bubbalo (2007-06-30 00:07:01)

Wow.  Wikipedia.  Again.  I bow to your godlike knowledge.

Looks like some of the Gitmo Prisoners will be going to Afghanistan.

Source: US to Send Some at Gitmo to Afghanistan


Found this old article (from 2004):

Abdullah Mehsud, a former Guantanamo Bay prisoner released by the U.S., turned right around and kidnapped two Chinese engineers in Pakistan:

    The former prisoners include Abdullah Mehsud, accused by Pakistani authorities of overseeing the recent kidnapping of two Chinese engineers, one of whom was killed. On Friday, Pakistani soldiers began a massive search for Mehsud, 28, who returned to Pakistan in March after about two years' detention at Guantanamo. Pakistan officials said he has forged ties with al Qaeda since then.

Source: Terrorist released from Gitmo returns to crime

I wonder how many other former Gitmo detainees returned to terrorism after they were released?

Last edited by Harmor (2007-06-30 08:25:14)

Harmor wrote:

Looks like some of the Gitmo Prisoners will be going to Afghanistan.
I wonder how many other former Gitmo detainees returned to terrorism after they were released?

Good question.  Along the same lines, I wonder how many will eventually be charged?  I wonder how many will be held indefinitely?  I wonder how many people still being held have no ties to terrorism at all (at least 3 without a doubt)?

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow.  Wikipedia.  Again.  I bow to your godlike knowledge.

Wow. You. Again. I bow to your godlike annoyance and irrelevance.
Please explain how one must know the goings on in the world without looking it up?

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2007-06-30 09:16:00)

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

759 prisoners have been transferred through Gitmo since the War on Terror started (as far as has been released to the public).
At least 46 have been released
At least 11 allege abuse
At least 10 were under 18 at the time of their capture
At least 16 were repatriated
At least 5 have attempted suicide, with at least 3 successful
At least 10 have gone on hunger strikes
At least 2 have determined to be innocent but are still detained
At least 5 have been charged
At least 23 face Military Tribunal Charges
At least two have left Gitmo as paraplegics

1 is an Al-Jazeera cameraman with no ties to terrorism.
1 is a writer already imprisoned in Afghanistan before the invasion for writing satirical articles about the Taliban and U.S. Government
1 is being held, despite being ruled innocent, because of fears of torture if he returns to China and denial of asylum by the U.S.

The list is incomplete because of the Department of Defense's reluctance to give full information.

No extremely high profile suspected terrorists are held at Gitmo.
Many still being held there are Chinese dissidents.

I know for a fact your statistic on attempted suicide is grossly understated.  I have a niece that was stationed at Gitmo as a nurse.  What is reported, and actual numbers are far from the truth.