BF2S Forums Civil Rights Australia?

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ssandstorm wrote:

Do you understand that over the last few years remote outback communities have gone completely out of control, with child molestation and drug/alcohol abuse now considered the norm, rather than an anomaly? I can't criticise a move that aims to protect children from abuse. Are adults  rights to drink alcohol and have access to a freeloader welfare system more important than a child's rights to live without violence and degradation?

I see your point.  But that is just like putting a band-aid on an amputation.  If you take away the booze, then crime will increase so they can get the booze.

Not only that, but if they want the booze, they will find it.  Same with the pornography.  I honestly can't understand how people can rationalize that taking away alcohol and pornography will magically make the problems in Aboriginal society disappear.  Address the poverty and lack of education, lack of jobs, etc.

Well thats how Johnny and the Liberals think. They think that if you remove it they won't be able to get it, but they are all east coasters with suits and good salaries who have no idea what it's like to live in Northern and Central Australia.

TeamZephyr wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

I see your point.  But that is just like putting a band-aid on an amputation.  If you take away the booze, then crime will increase so they can get the booze.

Not only that, but if they want the booze, they will find it.  Same with the pornography.  I honestly can't understand how people can rationalize that taking away alcohol and pornography will magically make the problems in Aboriginal society disappear.  Address the poverty and lack of education, lack of jobs, etc.

Well thats how Johnny and the Liberals think. They think that if you remove it they won't be able to get it, but they are all east coasters with suits and good salaries who have no idea what it's like to live in Northern and Central Australia.

Look up the OPAL Fuel program and the Volatile Substance Abuse Prevention Act...

You have very little idea of what you are talking about too it seems. OPAL Fuel program is WORKING. I've been following the VSAP Act since the idea was proposed in the Legislative Assembly and the Chief Justice of the NT, with whom I talked last month, said both had been very effective in wiping out the problem of petrol sniffing so far. Paint sniffing is on the rise though, but a far lesser problem.

For the rest of you, you're all ignoring the fact that their welfare payments will now be linked to school attendence. If their children aren't attending school their payments are cut in half and apparently some sort of government program will be instituted to ensure they are fed properly.

Can't provide source as it was on local radio this morning while I was on my way to work. 106.9 Gove FM, apparently a similar story with the same info ran on Australian National ABC radio though.



On the subject of employment... How do you employ somebody who will spend 3 hours every morning for 3 months in mourning for somebody in the community who died, who is not necessarily a family member or close friend and will not show up for work at all during this time... but will ask for paid leave instead... Because that's what some of the family and clan communities around Alice Springs do.


For the record, I grew up near 3 of these communities, and am currently sitting within 100km of around 20 or so similar communities. The thing is, the problems are limited to central Australian aboriginal communities, the ones I'm near right now will be largely unaffected as they are mostly costal communities with an entirely different culture. Far less violent and conflicting.


Sadly, Ski Beach, which I live 20km from and quite like... Beautiful scenery and very friendly people when they aren't intoxicated.

Also has the highest suicide rates per everything (capita, monthly, annum... you name it...) IN THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE. Also rather well buried info.

Ratzinger is right on the welfare subject, they don't get any more money than other Australians. Just get special consideration for housing commission housing (in the NT anyway) and have the CDEP as well. CDEP does NOT work in the remote communities.






This action might seem a little extreme or desperate. Extreme and desperate measures are needed though. Things have to change, and now. Roots of the problems can be looked at in a few months. It's tradgic to see what's happened to two of my childhood friends. Personally, harsh measures like this are needed but I'd rather see more involvement from people such as Noel Pearson.

There are already areas in Australia where alcohol is banned and also areas where petrol is banned.

Sorry Flecco, your post wasn't there when I started mine.

Thanks for your input. I'm sure this thread will benfit from having input from someone who actually knows the situation.

I don't know why the OP wanted to make this into a civil rights issue. Surely the welfare of children should be the primary concern. If it was your 6 month old baby being raped I'm sure you would have a different view. BTW This is not a racial issue (although most Americans seem to think racal and social issues are inextricably liked somehow - probably due to the stiuation over there, I don't know). This is about stopping some of the most horrific injustices imaginable. If that means impinging on some people's civil liberties then so be it. To take no action would be criminal.

Edit: spelling

Last edited by cospengle (2007-06-21 19:53:34)

They aren't banning Aboriginals for having alcohol and porn, they're banning people (white or black) in Aboriginal communities from having porn.  The amount of parental abuse in those communities is far worse than in urbanised areas.  The argument isn't that other people don't abuse children, but that other communities aren't being utterly destroyed by problems related to alcohol.

Further, it isn't a bill of rights issue: consider that certain drugs (and I believe certain alcoholic beverages, like absynthe?) are illegal in the US (and just about everywhere), because of the effect they have on the community.  This is just the same.

As to banning porn.........well, that's debatable.  Having said that, the suggestions are coming from community leaders.  The issue I have is that they're happy to ban things, but won't shell out the money and manpower for the rest of what's being suggested, and is needed.  Restrictions alone will never fix anything.

Yeah, I don't think it's technically illegal for you to look at porn, as Australian movies only have advisory ratings.  Having said that, you do need guardian approval.

Sure, I expect them to pay for wine and guns, which brings as back to alcoholism and violence...................

usmarine2005 wrote:

"If they're going to do that, they're going to have to do that with every single person in Australia, not just black people," she said."


Not sure how this is legal.

I saw a TV interview where the PM said it would apply to all welfare payments (in the affected areas). He wouldn't discriminate between aboriginal and non-aboriginal people.

It is legal because the 'Northern Territory' is a federal territory. This means that the Commonwealth Govt. can make laws regarding stuff that goes on there. The problem occurs when the Commonwealth govt tries to legislate on this sort of stuff if the constitution gives the states authority.
That's what I remember from the law part of 'commerce' in school. If I'm wrong, correct me...

Sleepy8686 wrote:

IMO alchohol and porn dont make pedophiles you either are or you arent and really how much porn do you think these people really have access to???????????  Hell if those two attributed to being a pedophile imagine how much worse it would be in the US and worldwide =P

but seriously thats all bs

You honestly have no fucking idea. I'll set up my context before I go on. My dad works for the NSW department of housing - he's one of the top 3 guys there - one of the things he does is social policy. He's often talked with me about his job, and the social problem that is affecting many aboriginal people. Alcohol is a major cause of many of their problems. The way Aboriginal physiology deals with alcohol is different to our bodies. They are more intolerant to it. Also, there are many many times more aboriginals out of work, out of housing, with family troubles, without proper education than compared to the rest of Australia. Simply, there is more chance for alcohol abuse.

By removing the alcohol, the PM will be able to cut out one of the major catalysts of abuse.



So NO, this ain't 'all BS'.

I don't think you understand the situation, usmarine.  These are isolated communities, it's not like they can just break a shop window to get to alcohol.

It is all BS, ever hear of BOOTLEGGERS? PROHIBITION? AL CAPONE? That shit will all happen in Aussiland if they ban alchohol. I'd bet money.

yeah, Capone was a liquor gangster.

If you ban something, if people want it bad enough, a law isn't gonna stop anything. Where do you think bootleggers and the like make their moonshine? in a back alley of NYC? No, its out in the backwoods of some backwater Alabama hicktown with a population of 20. Isolated communities are a perfect spot for bootleggers to create their wares.

Its needed in the N.T, Without alchohol and sick pornos the Aborigines will have nothing to spend their free money on except food for their kids. Its about time the government made sure that the welfare money goes towards what its meant to.