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Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5676|132 and Bush

Anti-death penalty forces have gained momentum in the past few years, with a moratorium in Illinois, court disputes over lethal injection in more than a half-dozen states and progress toward outright abolishment in New Jersey.

The steady drumbeat of DNA exonerations — pointing out flaws in the justice system — has weighed against capital punishment. The moral opposition is loud, too, echoed in Europe and the rest of the industrialized world, where all but a few countries banned executions years ago.

What gets little notice, however, is a series of academic studies over the last half-dozen years that claim to settle a once hotly debated argument — whether the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder. The analyses say yes. They count between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer.

The reports have horrified death penalty opponents and several scientists, who vigorously question the data and its implications.

So far, the studies have had little impact on public policy. New Jersey's commission on the death penalty this year dismissed the body of knowledge on deterrence as "inconclusive."

But the ferocious argument in academic circles could eventually spread to a wider audience, as it has in the past.

"Science does really draw a conclusion. It did. There is no question about it," said Naci Mocan, an economics professor at the University of Colorado at Denver. "The conclusion is there is a deterrent effect."

Several authors of the pro-deterrent reports said they welcome criticism in the interests of science, but said their work is being attacked by opponents of capital punishment for their findings, not their flaws.

"Instead of people sitting down and saying 'let's see what the data shows,' it's people sitting down and saying 'let's show this is wrong,'" said Paul Rubin, an economist and co-author of an Emory University study. "Some scientists are out seeking the truth, and some of them have a position they would like to defend."

The Entire Story
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|5617|Texas - Bigger than France
Excellent.  That's pretty much why I support it.

Three cheers for the death penalty

D
E
A
T
H

D-E-A-T-H

DEATH DEATH DEATH!

HOORAY FOR DEATH
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|5750|Canberra, AUS
Most excellent.

I can use this for my essay.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
DK_Vision
Self-loathing narcissist.
+41|5445|QUT, GP.
That's pretty much the opposite of what I learn in my university course.
The profs there all laugh at the death penalty for it's pitiful results, and these are people who wouldn't object to it.
They basically say 'Yes, people are worse off after they commit a crime, but it's only after that they truly think about it.'

I don't really have an opinion about it, everything is debatable, and people can prove anything with statistics. Fourteen percent of people know that.
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|5722
I really don't care if punishments deter people from breaking the law or not. Punishment is about what you deserve.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|5750|Canberra, AUS

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

I really don't care if punishments deter people from breaking the law or not. Punishment is about what you deserve.
Not really, deterrent is a more important thing. Proportional justice isn't 100% of the justice system - if there is no deterrent to criminals, then there really is no point to the justice system. The idea isn't to punish people, the idea is to prevent crime.

Last edited by Spark (2007-06-10 22:36:01)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|5722

Spark wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

I really don't care if punishments deter people from breaking the law or not. Punishment is about what you deserve.
Not really, deterrent is a more important thing. Proportional justice isn't 100% of the justice system - if there is no deterrent to criminals, then there really is no point to the justice system. The idea isn't to punish people, the idea is to prevent crime.
Maybe to you.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5636
Except that there have been plenty of people who've said the studies are unreliable.
Fred[OZ75]
Jihad Jeep Driver
+19|5835|Perth, Western Australia
The Us is only OECD country with death penalties, it also has the highest murder rate (usually several times higher). Don't know where these"facts" are coming from?

Last edited by Fred[OZ75] (2007-06-11 01:08:22)

JackerP
aka S.J.N.P.0717
+21|5353|Mo Val, Cali
Okay so who's the smartypants who thought up this brilliant idea? I mean, who would've known somebody would actually not want to go to jail, rot for 10-20 years then fry?
Janysc
Member
+59|5758|Norway
Death penalties are more expensive to accomplish than a life-time in prison. Why? Well, you can see it on the news. Someone gets the death penalty, they do everything in their power to prevent or postpone it.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|5630
Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
zeidmaan
Member
+234|5490|Vienna

Death penalty can only be a deterrent to premeditated murders because only those murderers will think about the consequences. But I think that in those cases people actually think that they will get away with it. In countries with out the death penalty no one is gonna think "If I get cought its "just" life in prison, no big deal I don't mind... it will actually be kind on nice". Not a chance. They convince them selves that they wont get cought and only than will they commit the murder.

And in cases of, whats it called, crimes of passion (something like that) there is no thinking involved. Its just pure emotions and instinct that take over. And those murderers in that moment have no damn idea whether there is a death penalty in their state or not.

Not to mention addicts and robbery-murders. I think their need of drugs outweighs the punishment.

So In my opinion its pretty pointless.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|5885|Nårvei

Think i remember reading that capital punishment was more expensive than keeping the detainee in prison for his entire life alas still saving those 18 lives pr detainee.

Also i dont think capital punishment is more deterrent than a life sentance seing as their life is lost in any case. Also seing the death pr capita in the US relating to crime it kinda shows capital punishment isn`t working.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
SineNomine
Panzerblitz
+37|5798|SPARTA
As a judge on a german court I say:  this is clearly proven wrong, and believing in such lies is dangerous.
Read some books, or better, write a doctorate about it, like a fellow student of mine did. Maybe this helps.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|5543
But the real deterrent of crime is an effective police force.
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|5817|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

CameronPoe wrote:

Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
Game,set, and match! end of discussion..
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|5832|Argentina

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

I really don't care if punishments deter people from breaking the law or not. Punishment is about what you deserve.
It's better to prevent than to punish.  Btw, nice playing the other day.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5676|132 and Bush

CameronPoe wrote:

Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
Is the rare case of one innocent worth the risk of between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|5617|Texas - Bigger than France

IG-Calibre wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
Game,set, and match! end of discussion..
Compared to life imprisonment?

What's more cruel?
JahManRed
wank
+646|5703|IRELAND

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
Is the rare case of one innocent worth the risk of between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer?
Risking 3-18 lives? Of who? The victims if these people get out and re-offend? Sorry I'm a bit confused.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5676|132 and Bush

JahManRed wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
Is the rare case of one innocent worth the risk of between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer?
Risking 3-18 lives? Of who? The victims if these people get out and re-offend? Sorry I'm a bit confused.
Did you read the entire article?

A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) — what am I going to do, hide them?"
Xbone Stormsurgezz
necroyeti1612
Member
+6|5258|Vienna, AUT

CameronPoe wrote:

Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
VERY VERY TRUE!

And as we have seen. It has cost innocent lives...more than it would have been preventing. Chew on that!
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|5636

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
Is the rare case of one innocent worth the risk of between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer?
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a view?  That sounds an awful lot like Communism...................
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|5298|Escea

CameronPoe wrote:

Whether it deters crime or not it is still wrong purely on the basis that a miscarriage of justice can cost an innocent person their life.
In this case, they just have to bail from the prison bus before its hit by a train

As for capital punishment, it doesn't bother me whether its carried out or not, which ever way reduces crime most is better despite moral intentions.

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