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2005-12-14 16:48:48
VidSicious
Member
+25|7034
Half of these "fixes" sound like a waste of time to me, they are no big deal in the game.  In real life I would jump if shot at and I could hold down the trigger on my machine gun and jump and bullets would fly.  Who cares?  Dolphin divers and bunny hoppers don't bother me.  Easier to shoot down jets would be a little nicer.  Making guns more accurate would suck as it would make it easier for noobs to play. 

The real bugs are the red named friendlies, blue named enemies, a server search that is crud, disconnects, and not being able to change your name.  None of those problems were mentioned.

I give the proposed fixes a C- at best.  My fear is they keep patching the game to make it easy for noobs to play so EA can get them to buy upgrades thinking they are good.  When that happens it will just turn into a big kill fest and you might as well go play Unreal or some other fragger.

-Vid

Last edited by VidSicious (2005-12-14 17:05:52)

2005-12-14 17:06:20
=DS=Unit92
Member
+0|7001

VidSicious wrote:

Half of these "fixes" sound like a waste of time to me, they are no big deal in the game.  In real life I would jump if shot at and I could hold down the trigger on my machine gun and jump and bullets would fly.  Who cares?  The real bugs are the red named friendlies, blue named enemies, a server search that is crud, disconnects, and not being able to change your name. 

Notice none of those problems were mentioned.

Think about it... why would EA games let an employee post on this forum when they could be giving an official update on their community update section on the official website.

I would give odds that the guy who started this post is laughing his butt off...

-Vid
In real life if you jumped and tried to shoot a machine gun you would probably end up blowing off your leg.
2005-12-14 17:08:50
Nemesis-SBS-
Member
+9|7098|6,000 ft & falling......weeeee
id love to see u run and jump and fire with an M60.......u watch too many films ...lmfao
2005-12-14 17:17:33
Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6973|Norway

S=Unit92 wrote:

VidSicious wrote:

Half of these "fixes" sound like a waste of time to me, they are no big deal in the game.  In real life I would jump if shot at and I could hold down the trigger on my machine gun and jump and bullets would fly.  Who cares?  The real bugs are the red named friendlies, blue named enemies, a server search that is crud, disconnects, and not being able to change your name. 

Notice none of those problems were mentioned.

Think about it... why would EA games let an employee post on this forum when they could be giving an official update on their community update section on the official website.

I would give odds that the guy who started this post is laughing his butt off...

-Vid
In real life if you jumped and tried to shoot a machine gun you would probably end up blowing off your leg.
Hehe, nice

I thought it fun to think of BF2 like (someguy in here I can't remember the name off)
Whoever you are - didn't initially like the spawning because it felt stupid with all the people popping up into the war.. until you set yourself up to look like it as a war, then you could imagine playing one soldier's role, then moving on to another soldier..

I would think this mental image could be applied to bunny-/flipperhopping being removed..
Sure you could, in real life, jump and fire your gun, you could jump around for all you were worth (until you were bloody exhausted from all the gear (something EA chose to ignore btw))

You could jump and throw grenades/C4/ammo/meds etc.
But then again - what do you think would happen if a CO saw you jumping around the battlefield?
"Hm, would you look at smithy, now he's jumping again. Let's just send him home, he can't be right in the head..."

So there you have it - bunnyjumping etc. isn't removed per se, it's just that all the soldiers doing it were discharged, if you get my meaning (which admittedly can be quite difficult...)

Looking forward til any and all flaming

Peace and Love

Last edited by Friluftshund (2005-12-14 17:19:24)

2005-12-14 17:20:12
Stunty13
Member
+0|6994
OK...fixes....about time. But what are prone spamming and sprint exploit?
2005-12-14 17:41:18
CackNBallz
Member
+45|7003|Toronto, Canada
The only way that I would start dolphin diving would if Jessica Alba came over thinking I was Flipper. 

EDIT: *I apologize to my jealous girlfriend of whom I have been with for 6 years and counting... too late she slapped me*

Last edited by CackNBallz (2005-12-14 17:41:57)

2005-12-14 18:02:53
0ktane
Negative Ping
+55|7027|Arizona
I'm only looking for one fix, and that's when you get blasted at point blank range by some tool with the newb tube, u die a grizzly death, and they walk away unharmed.  Nothin else in the game bothers me at all. 
2005-12-14 18:07:03
RKF77
Member
+1|7011

0ktane wrote:

I'm only looking for one fix, and that's when you get blasted at point blank range by some tool with the newb tube, u die a grizzly death, and they walk away unharmed.  Nothin else in the game bothers me at all. 
Yep...my kingdom for a minimum distance-to-arm fuse. 
2005-12-14 18:18:35
lobo76
Member
+2|6969

VidSicious wrote:

Half of these "fixes" sound like a waste of time to me, they are no big deal in the game.  In real life I would jump if shot at and I could hold down the trigger on my machine gun and jump and bullets would fly.
-Vid
haha...have u been in the army? do you how many kilos...(or pounds for americans) an average infantry lugs around? I am not even talking about AT or Support gunners. You really think in REAL LIFE you will jump when shot upon. wat a joke.
2005-12-14 20:09:19
RGB|Apocalypse
Member
+1|7021

lobo76 wrote:

i dun like bunny hoppers, but being unable to jump and shoot is not the answer. With all the stuff an infantry carries, what i like to see, is that each jump take half or a third of your stamina, so u can only jump twice. U can't bunny hop with only 2-3 jumps...and can't jump at all if you have sprinted there.

leave the ability to shoot and jump alone. it is someting that should remain do-able.


For noob tubes, i think you just need the minimal arm distance. other than tat, i have no complaints even if i am killed by one. Being kill by a person using a GL a metre away is...

Helis do need to be nerfed, but I don't think the number of missiles need to be reduced. They shld stay powerful in attack but not so powerful defensively. I am not going to use the realism arguement coz this is a GAME. but just to balance the forces a bit.

Now if one team has air superiority, it is almost going to win. While this is true in RL, we are playing a GAME. As everyone SHOULD know, a BALANCED game is the best game. Hence, there should be a counter to everything there is in the game. There should be an infantry answer to everything, coz everything can kill them. if there isn't going to be a stinger unit, then degrading the Air armor or having improve AA is the correct answer.
Wow minus all the flame and whines this thread would be less than 3 pages. LOL...

lobo76's post is about the only one that makes complete sense.

Actually air vehicles need not have lesser hit points.. It ought to have a more balanced damage system. Right now, it takes almost no damage from APC 20mm cannon but .50cal kills it. WTF. What kinda logic is this? Making the APC damage it more easily can really turn the tide against heli whores, since APC is mobile and armoured.
2005-12-14 20:22:36
NJG HukaMaster
Member
+1|7035

RGB|Apocalypse wrote:

lobo76 wrote:

i dun like bunny hoppers, but being unable to jump and shoot is not the answer. With all the stuff an infantry carries, what i like to see, is that each jump take half or a third of your stamina, so u can only jump twice. U can't bunny hop with only 2-3 jumps...and can't jump at all if you have sprinted there.

leave the ability to shoot and jump alone. it is someting that should remain do-able.


For noob tubes, i think you just need the minimal arm distance. other than tat, i have no complaints even if i am killed by one. Being kill by a person using a GL a metre away is...

Helis do need to be nerfed, but I don't think the number of missiles need to be reduced. They shld stay powerful in attack but not so powerful defensively. I am not going to use the realism arguement coz this is a GAME. but just to balance the forces a bit.

Now if one team has air superiority, it is almost going to win. While this is true in RL, we are playing a GAME. As everyone SHOULD know, a BALANCED game is the best game. Hence, there should be a counter to everything there is in the game. There should be an infantry answer to everything, coz everything can kill them. if there isn't going to be a stinger unit, then degrading the Air armor or having improve AA is the correct answer.
Wow minus all the flame and whines this thread would be less than 3 pages. LOL...

lobo76's post is about the only one that makes complete sense.

Actually air vehicles need not have lesser hit points.. It ought to have a more balanced damage system. Right now, it takes almost no damage from APC 20mm cannon but .50cal kills it. WTF. What kinda logic is this? Making the APC damage it more easily can really turn the tide against heli whores, since APC is mobile and armoured.
The funniest thing ever is that the jeeps outnumber APC's 10-1 yet everyone runs and hides from the BIG BAD Heli monster instead of mounting up and returning fire.  This has proven so effective with three squaddies and three jeeps.  Helis usually put their tales between their legs or poop an iron brick upon the ground infront of you.
2005-12-14 20:50:30
Jestar
Shifty's Home Number: 02 9662 8432
+373|7001

This is just my opinion, but I think that another rule they should add is invincibility for the first 5 seconds after you spawn. One of the worst things is spawning, only to get bombed or artyed.
2005-12-14 22:29:27
Fearnight
Member
+0|6995
Until they remove the grenade launcher from the game I wont be happy.
2005-12-14 22:42:11
Umbra Acciptris
Member
+1|7015

Fearnight wrote:

Until they remove the grenade launcher from the game I wont be happy.
Then you are going to be unhappy for a long time.

I agree the heli heath is fine, but the balance between the helo's is screwed.
2005-12-15 01:15:46
thephoniex
Member
+0|6968
Hello, first post here.  Just wanted to say thanks for such a GREAT site, and all the great stats! This is the best stat website i have ever seen:)

I just wanted to share my views on this new patch, first impression is it will be a 9 out of 10.


The only thing i am worried about is that heli's might take too big of a hit so that jet planes are in any small way balanced.  Currently attack helis and the BH CAN take over maps, but it takes alot of work and skill, and lack of teamwork on the losing side:(   But for jets, its FAR too easy to dominate.  The following are my thoughts based on game balance, not realism.***  Warning arguing realism when you respawn ever 15 seconds and can be fully healed from DEATH with one hit from a difibulator does not go far.  BF is a game, it should strive for realism but not forsake game balance for it. 

First thought: On Sharqi it was unbalancing for the US heli be able to destroy the MEC heli with one with TV missle from the top of the tower,  reducing hellfire's range is a good thing.

I also am ok with the change in missles from 14 to 8, but hopefully this change will also change vannilla BF2 missles into SF missles, because there the missles have a actual blast radius and are useful against tanks AND infantry.

Reducing the HP's on air vechicles, while a solution, i don't think is the best.  What would be MUCH better is simply upping the damage certain weapons do against air vehicles.  Yes 1 tank shell should take out a heli, but so should 4-5 attack chopper missles, not the 10 or so it takes now.  The damage AT kit missles do to heli's should be increased, 2 should definately bring down a attack chopper, and without eng repairing 2 should bring down a BH(or at least make it burn).  Also I don't think ground based AA should kill a heli in one volly of 2 missles that hit ***IF*** AA is actually going to be fixed so it works.  So "lock on" actually means HITS with even 25% of the time.  IF ground based AA is still worthless after this patch then lower air vehicle HP all you can and up damage as much as possible.  I really am tired of dying to invincable jets.

Now as a subplot to these air balances, what i don't get is why heli's are taking such a hit.  Its jets, not heli's that are broken ingame.  No heli can go the entire map on a killing spree as easily as a jet can.  Also reducing the power of the BH miniguns, is not the answer. Raising the power of the MEC chopper's guns is.  If the fight was fair at all BH's would not dominate mash and Z wetlands as much.  Besides no one ever listens to me when i tell them the BH is a gunship now anyway, most of the pilots i team with now still hover trying to capture flags while getting hit by AT kit missles and transport 50 cal's. 

All the weapon accuracy updates hopefully will make guns MORE accurate, and they all need it.  I don't want quake/unreal perfection with every hit, but damn i HATE missing stationary targets with a sniper rifle at medium range. 

Finally a word on dolphin diving/bunny hopping, i hated it in CS, but learned to overcome it there; as i have here.  But the game really would be better without it.  But it would not be better without being able to shoot while jumping, as others have said make it horribly inaccurate or whatever.  But i there is no reason why you can not pull the trigger on your gun while you jump. Yes in the real world its a bad idea, but that is no reason to take it out of this game, unless thats the key to stopping bunny hopping/dolphin diving.  I should be able to jump around a corner and DAO someone its fun:)


Well i think thats it, hopefully this patch will arrive with new maps, a fix to the red teammate bug and soon:)

Good luck out on the battlefield!
2005-12-15 01:30:46
Blankwindow
Member
+1|6985

RKF77 wrote:

Ryan_Mercury wrote:

I honestly can't belive out of all of those, everyone puts bunny hopping at a higher 'hate this, fix it' than the fucking n00b tube.

...

But grenade launchers...? Those are a bit hard to deal with provided you don't die when you get hit with it. If they miss, sure you kill 'em, but 90% of my time I've been 1 shot with those things.
How would you suggest they "fix" them? 
I love all these fixes.

As to how to fix the Gl spamming. That is simple make the weapon realistc. In real life a grenade from a gp30 or m203 has to travel atleast 30 meters ( i velieve thirty is the min range) before it will explode. The reaosn is to prevent kiling yourself or other friendly.

If the put a min distance on the weapon then it would not be a problem because if the target is over 30 meters and is moving it requires a bit of aim to take down. I meen hell look at the old game DF:BHD they have amin distance on the m203 you can pop off a target at anywhere in sight range. (and beyond with practice if you know exactly where they are such as a prone sniper that you've seen tracers from.) BUt if they are less than the min range the only way the m203 can kill them is if you hit them in the upperchest/head with the grenade. (in BHD if the grenade hits them in the opperchest/head area it acts as a headshot because the grenade is traveling quite fast.)

anyway just add a minimum distance for arming of the grenade which makes the weapon realistic. Honostly if someone kills me with a gl at over 30 meters i don't mind really becaus eit took a bit of skill.
2005-12-15 01:48:54
[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|7005

The real problem that needs to be addressed, is air vs. air combat, as opposed to everyone relying on the stinky AA sites. AA will never be perfect downing planes at first lock on (reality check) like people seem to expect from the AA sites in game now. If it was that easy to down enemy jets, there wouldn't be pilots anymore, yet they still exist. I really don't think AA should be improved upon to the point that lock-on guarantees hits. I think it should be such that if you get lock-on you should have a much higher chance at hits that currently or they should switch to flak AA sites combined with shoulder mounted AA for infantry.

The main point I want to stress, is that Air to Air combat needs an overhaul. As it is, there is little reward for shooting down enemy pilots other then personal vendetta, because it simply takes too long for a whopping 2 points. I remember Desert Combat, where you could rack up very nice scores, shooting down only enemy jets, and dog fighting was the whole highlight of DC! Those straight firing fighter missles took much time to master, but once you were an expert, the game was intensely fun. The shoulder mounted stingers that flew straight in DC were very well balanced and vastly superior to this crap we see now.

I think everyone wants to nerf jets because they are so over-powered, but look at reality, they ought to be overpowered, dominating the air neccesarily means dominating the ground. The total lack of air to air is what makes the game so unfair from a ground point of view though, not that AA sites aren't totally owning everything that flies.

I hope they do increase the AA ability in the game, but fix the Air to Air lock as well. I hope they don't turn it into an unreal tournament insta death type thing though - that would really spoil all air combat.

On a final note, I wish they would adjust the point system so that killing vehicles neccesarily yields more points. Two points for downing a jet or a tank, compared to wasting some guy with your ak101 for the same score is hardly incentive to spawn in Karkand with AT as an example. Getting no points when you send an enemy vehicle burning is pretty brutal too, you could at least get kill assists for everyone who bailed when they have their next death. Killing enemy commander assets I think should either require 1 c4 or give you two points instead of one - and balancing this, engineers should get repair points faster to encourage people to actually play this class. Engineer used to be the class to play, now it is a relic for commanders and tank whores alone
2005-12-15 02:08:26
warco3
Member
+1|6989|Orlando, FL
I only hope the changes to the accuracy of the sniper/support/antitank kits is positive, but I think the L85A1(Sa80 w/e) and the G3 are fine the way they are now. I get killed plenty by them and know their effectiveness so I don't see why they should be upped at all. Hopefully they don't make them overpowered but we'll see. All the other changes will simply widen the gap between beginners and pros, which to me is a great thing.
2005-12-15 02:17:20
SharkyMcshark
I'll take two
+132|7045|Perth, Western Australia
IM just glad the L85 has been improved
2005-12-15 02:19:08
lobo76
Member
+2|6969
Some argued against reducing the health of Air vehicles.. not sure why. Air vehicles in real life SHOULD incredibly fragile machines. You disrupt their aerodynamics and they are screwed, and aerody is so easily disrupted. a clipped wing, or damaged rotors...hence, any hit by a major calibre weapon should easily damaged them to red health, sending them back to helipad/runway for magical repair.

Despite the fact the RL AA is also not very effective, you do see (in TV and movies), it sends them doing all kinds of stunts to avoid them. Does this happen in BF2? no...the pilots couldn't really care less. if they could disable the warning tone, they would.

but as i said, that is not the point. The pt is balanced gameplay. with Air vehicle gaining so much superiority, if getting more realism helps to balance the game, then i am all for it.
2005-12-15 02:36:06
|PoRn|-EcKs-
Member
+0|6994

a_fraudulent_miracle wrote:

Hmmm... they're making reloading while sprinting possible? I've always been able to do that, well at least while playing antitank. I can reload the eryx and run at the same time with no problem.
The reload during sprint has always been possible as long as you start the reload process before you start the sprint... now you can do it in mid sprint.

Prone Spamming:  If im not mistaken and this is possible, (im sure ill be corrected if wrong) it is when you go prone then stand then prone again (repeat quickly) while sprinting... this allows you to stay prone and crawl on the ground at sprint speeds. 

I think that the GP30 and M203 issue will be fixed with the "no Shooting while Jumping" this will cut down on alot of the NoobTubing as i see it.  (being a big fan of it to begin with) So now I, like many others, will just have to adjust there game.  No biggy, I welcome all the changes personally.
2005-12-15 03:30:36
RGB|Apocalypse
Member
+1|7021

Blankwindow wrote:

As to how to fix the Gl spamming. That is simple make the weapon realistc. In real life a grenade from a gp30 or m203 has to travel atleast 30 meters ( i velieve thirty is the min range) before it will explode. The reaosn is to prevent kiling yourself or other friendly.

If the put a min distance on the weapon then it would not be a problem because if the target is over 30 meters and is moving it requires a bit of aim to take down. I meen hell look at the old game DF:BHD they have amin distance on the m203 you can pop off a target at anywhere in sight range. (and beyond with practice if you know exactly where they are such as a prone sniper that you've seen tracers from.) BUt if they are less than the min range the only way the m203 can kill them is if you hit them in the upperchest/head with the grenade. (in BHD if the grenade hits them in the opperchest/head area it acts as a headshot because the grenade is traveling quite fast.)

anyway just add a minimum distance for arming of the grenade which makes the weapon realistic. Honostly if someone kills me with a gl at over 30 meters i don't mind really becaus eit took a bit of skill.
I don't think distance is the factor. Grenades prime base on timing and so should the GL. Take for example the rifle-grenade in Enemy Territory. You can actually fire it at an enemy in front of you but it would bounce right back and kill yourself. It takes skills to recognise the timing and alleviation in order to hit a target and close quarter and long distance (trajectory estimation). I wish the GL in BF2 can be like that.
2005-12-15 04:32:36
RKF77
Member
+1|7011

|PoRn|-EcKs- wrote:

So now I, like many others, will just have to adjust there game.  No biggy, I welcome all the changes personally.
This is an awesome attitude to have.  Just about everyone's going to have to adapt somewhat with that many tweaks and changes.  We're *all* just going to have to suck it up and get it done.  I like to fly sometimes, it may get harder.  I gun for a friend in the attack helo, we're both going to have to adapt to those changes.

What makes me wonder more than anything is just *how* the weapons are going to be tweaked...the descriptors are a bit vague.  I hope they don't nerf my beloved PKM too much. 

Everything affects everything else, so who knows...all the changes as a whole may end up being good.

Last edited by RKF77 (2005-12-15 04:41:39)

2005-12-15 09:48:08
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|7031|Atlanta, GA USA

RGB|Apocalypse wrote:

Blankwindow wrote:

As to how to fix the Gl spamming. That is simple make the weapon realistc. In real life a grenade from a gp30 or m203 has to travel atleast 30 meters ( i velieve thirty is the min range) before it will explode. The reaosn is to prevent kiling yourself or other friendly.

If the put a min distance on the weapon then it would not be a problem because if the target is over 30 meters and is moving it requires a bit of aim to take down. I meen hell look at the old game DF:BHD they have amin distance on the m203 you can pop off a target at anywhere in sight range. (and beyond with practice if you know exactly where they are such as a prone sniper that you've seen tracers from.) BUt if they are less than the min range the only way the m203 can kill them is if you hit them in the upperchest/head with the grenade. (in BHD if the grenade hits them in the opperchest/head area it acts as a headshot because the grenade is traveling quite fast.)

anyway just add a minimum distance for arming of the grenade which makes the weapon realistic. Honostly if someone kills me with a gl at over 30 meters i don't mind really becaus eit took a bit of skill.
I don't think distance is the factor. Grenades prime base on timing and so should the GL. Take for example the rifle-grenade in Enemy Territory. You can actually fire it at an enemy in front of you but it would bounce right back and kill yourself. It takes skills to recognise the timing and alleviation in order to hit a target and close quarter and long distance (trajectory estimation). I wish the GL in BF2 can be like that.
It is my understanding that distance IS the factor for GLs in RL.  The grenade turns as it travels through the air; after so many revolutions, the grenade is armed.

EDIT:

I found this on the America's Army website (http://www.americasarmy.com/intel/usweapons.php):
From Army Field Manual FM3-22.31:
The M203 grenade launcher is a lightweight, single-shot, breech-loaded, pump action (sliding barrel), shoulder-fired weapon that is attached to an M16 rifle series, or the M4 carbine series with the M203A1, and M4 carbine series with the rail system

The grenadier’s operations include loading, unloading, and firing the weapon. The weapon uses a high-low propulsion system to fire a 40-mm round. The firing pin strikes the primer, whose flash ignites the propellant in the brass powder-charge cup inside the high-pressure chamber. The burning propellant produces 35,000 psi chamber pressure, which ruptures the brass powder-charge cup at the vent holes and allows the gases to escape to the low-pressure chamber in the cartridge case. There the pressure drops to 3,000 psi and propels the grenade from the muzzle at a velocity of 250 fps. The grenade’s 37,000-rpm right-hand spin stabilizes it during flight and applies enough rotational force to arm the fuze. The weapon is unloaded with the barrel open and fired from a closed bolt. It must be cocked before it can be placed on SAFE.

Last edited by atlvolunteer (2005-12-15 10:15:15)

2005-12-15 13:38:04
bs6749
Member
+3|7004

ThomasMorgan wrote:

it is about fucking time.

i like all those fixes.  too many times have i been in a tank and avoided an attacking chopper only to have it turn tail and fire 6 more missiles up my ass.  air vehicles should have less hit points.  a direct hit from a SRAW should come damn near taking out a chopper, if not destroying it entirely.  AA missile lock improved...about fucking time.  dolphin diving and bunny hopping are being addressed.  the defibs recharging when put away...

the only thing im wondering about is the accuracy.  does this mean theyll be more or less accurate?  i think the sniper kit is perfect the way it is.  i also dont have any problems with support or anti-tank accuracy....those comments worry me.

everything else sounds awesome though.

any idea when itll be released?
Exactly the way that I feel. I use sniper as my main kit (M24) and am hoping that they don't decrease it's accuracy. Maybe they meant the M95 will have improved accuracy but I doubt it since they said that such and such a weapon will be improved, and would have stated this if it were the case with the M95. This worries me as well. I don't see how the accuracy (mid to long range) of the anti-tank, support can be decreased, so I am assuming that they will be increased. I feel that this is unnecessary for the most part. I just can't wait to play anti-tank now that choppers will have less hit points. I am looking forward to taking out many a chopper whore.

 

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