Keep in mind, if the rockets didn't come from civilian targets, the attilary wouldn't go there. From Isreal's point of view, they are right and the only other option they have is full scale invasion. Which would you chose, it dosen't look like either side will ever stop.
I am well aware of the futility of posting about Palestine on an internet forum. Based on the fact that the Israelis have broken several ceasefires in the past (because it suited their agenda) I do not have the same confidence you have in the Zionist state terror regime of Israel. I don't think Hamas are capable of a ceasefire myself either - Israel missed its chance for peace when it elected Likud and the Palestinians dumped Fatah because of corruption. Clinton had Barak and Arafat at the brink of agreement at Camp David. Arafat's idiocy and Ariel Sharon's frankly evil incitement broke any dream of peace. Likud and Kadima and the orthodox Jews do not want peace - they want war, perpetual war, because it's the only way of them securing the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) all for themselves. Not exactly trustworthy IMO.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
There will never be a ceasefire with Hamas....its a joke if you think Hamas would ever HOLD a ceasefire. Yes, i do believe that Israel would stop firing on the West Bank IF they were not attacked any more. Settlements are another issue. I am not defending Israel or the Palestinians. I support both in what they believe is the right thing to do. Peace in our lifetime? That will never happen because like I said...eye for an eye has been going on for thousands of years and will go on long after we are all gone. Cameron you can call what I say bullshit all you want. I have read your posts all over these forums. You really seem to have the answers to ALL of life's questions and problems and a lot of time to write about it. It is very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback!!!!!! No one here has the answers to solve this...and when you speak of bullshit, a lot of people have stepped deep in yours. I am posting because I see the same things posted here over and over and over (long before I actually signed up) and the reality is this. You nor I, nor any of us here is going to solve this in our lifetime, especially posting forums based in gaming with a few hundred people possibly seeing this post. You can spew all the intelligent sounding words, phrases and rhetoric to your hearts content because it wont change a thing. When you and I are long gone....people will be posting on forums (or whatever form forums will take in the future) over the same BS over the same problems like people have been doing long before we were born. This is what I believe...Israel and the Palestinian people have done good and bad on both ends and do have good intentions if ever allowed to do so. But as always, there will be a "monkeys with the wrench"(Hamas, religion, fanatics, terrorist groups and egos) to keep it all messed up and going for another thousand years.
Clarify please. Are you saying that Palestine actually belongs to Israel?sergeriver wrote:
Wrong. The IDF's are the police of Palestine, so they should get those extremists. If they can't deal with them, then they should leave the OT.Pug wrote:
So are you saying that Israel has the right to fight back?sergeriver wrote:
Israel can take measures to protect itself, what Israel can't do is to continue the eye for an eye policy, where they receive a rocket which doesn't kill anyone and they go and bomb a Palestinian residential neighborhood and kill 10 people. By this I'm not justifying the rocket launcher, but condemning the hard response given by Israel.
And what about addressing Vil's statement? That part of the reason the Palestinians are receiving the treatment they are getting is because they are allowing the extremists to exist within their own country?
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
hahaGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewi … pation.gif
puts it in a bit of perspective.usmarine2005 wrote:
hahaGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewi … pation.gif
You forgot Bangladesh and Indonesia. They got 2 nations purely for Muslims carved out of India (Pak and Bang) and alot of Southeast Asia. I've always said they were greedy bastards.
/Grabs some popcorn and reclines in the lazy boy cause here comes a show.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
puts it in a bit of perspective.usmarine2005 wrote:
hahaGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewi … pation.gif
Here's a better one.
Islam majority in green. 50% Islam in yellow.
Islam majority in green. 50% Islam in yellow.
Why anyone would actually want to be that surrounded by people who hate them almost as much as Hitler did dumbfounds me. The image also kind of endorses stealing, as long as you don't steal much.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
saw this picture and thought it was funny. not very accurate but funny
check out who owns all the oil!!!Mekstizzle wrote:
Here's a better one.
Islam majority in green. 50% Islam in yellow.
http://i18.tinypic.com/4kdz6ki.png
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Greedy?! Shit its not like they went round stealing all the land unlike you-know-who....Mekstizzle wrote:
You forgot Bangladesh and Indonesia. They got 2 nations purely for Muslims carved out of India (Pak and Bang) and alot of Southeast Asia. I've always said they were greedy bastards.
Just check how prolific our christen brethren was including the colonies!
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Canada and Russia?m3thod wrote:
check out who owns all the oil!!!Mekstizzle wrote:
Here's a better one.
Islam majority in green. 50% Islam in yellow.
http://i18.tinypic.com/4kdz6ki.png
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te … s-map.html
Not that i know much on this topic but i am sure that there is different types of oil. The Candian and Russain version is known to be poor quality. Something about it being sweet in relation to sulpher content?usmarine2005 wrote:
Canada and Russia?m3thod wrote:
check out who owns all the oil!!!Mekstizzle wrote:
Here's a better one.
Islam majority in green. 50% Islam in yellow.
http://i18.tinypic.com/4kdz6ki.png
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te … s-map.html
Where's topal when you need him...
edit
your maths sucks.
Last edited by m3thod (2007-05-29 12:52:51)
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
+1... well said...DeathBecomesYu wrote:
I have read your posts all over these forums. You really seem to have the answers to ALL of life's questions and problems and a lot of time to write about it. It is very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback!!!!!! No one here has the answers to solve this...and when you speak of bullshit, a lot of people have stepped deep in yours.
Love is the answer
Look at Mr. NoPosts and Mr. PointsFullOfHoles. The funny thing is that I don't go round that often stating that I have the golden solutions to all of lifes little problems, least of all the Palestinian problem - I generally just state what the problems are. I guess you guys like to fabricate posts of mine in your head. I pride myself as being one of the posters on this forum that backs things up with factual information or personal experience. DeathBecomesYu - try formulating rational arguments based on fact in a pleasingly presented and grammatically correct form thank you very much and [TUF]Catbox stop bombarding D&ST with brilliant posts of outstanding quality and fastidious attention to detail please. lol[TUF]Catbox wrote:
+1... well said...DeathBecomesYu wrote:
I have read your posts all over these forums. You really seem to have the answers to ALL of life's questions and problems and a lot of time to write about it. It is very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback!!!!!! No one here has the answers to solve this...and when you speak of bullshit, a lot of people have stepped deep in yours.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-29 12:58:52)
Okay, but some thoughts:konfusion wrote:
I'll say it again. And again, and again, and again if I have to.
If you have nothing to lose, you will do whatever it takes
The world needs to acknowledge Palestine as a country, and acknowledge it's people as what they are - people. They are not terrorists, they are not extremists.
It seems to me that the policy that Israel is following isn't an eye for an eye. It's a leg, or a life, for an eye. As serge mentioned above, you wouldn't do it in the US justice system, so why should Israel be allowed to? This is not justice. It's revenge. The sooner both countries accept this, the sooner we will see peace.
The obvious bias on the US media is made more clear with each response in this forum.
Israel has a right to carry out justice. No more than that.
-konfusion
The Hamas & The Hez have some pull within the Palestinian society. If they are part of the Pally government, doesn't it follow they represent the people? And if so, then isn't their policy of attacking Israel consistent with the wants of their people?
So if the Hamas/Hez shoot rockets into Israel, isn't this an attack from the Pally people on the Israeli people?
So what you guys want is for Israel to wait until the dust settles from the last rocket, make a head count and then retaliate? So who do they attack? The rockets guys are obviously gone by the time they figure that out. So no, they retaliate immediately to take out the rocket guys.
The rocket guys are in the middle of a neighborhood? What about a cafe bombing? Was the cafe filled with IDF troopers? Sure, it's tragic that the Pally people are dying for many reasons, one being retaliatory strikes...but what are the Pally people doing about it? Do they blame their Hamas-led & Hez-led government for allowing a rocket attack from the top of a condo? It's not like they don't realize Israel will not hesitate to destroy the building, so why do the Pally people allow it?
And the rockets are pretty inaccurate right? So are they ALWAYS fired at the IDF? No? Well, how is it right to have the intention of killing Israelis and be faultless? How is it only the fault of Israel when the Pally government supports these attacks? And how is Israel's fault when the Pally government representing the Pally people actually encourages these attacks by repetitively staging them in highly populated areas?
Yes, it's tragic, and it sucks. But what exactly is shooting rockets into Israeli territory accomplishing? Absolutely nothing.
Neither side hesitates to screw the other over. But let's focus on the truth here - retalation isn't working. Condeming one side over the other is not working. Frankly it's bullshit to only assert the blame on the Israelis for retaliating. And I'm finding it more difficult to separate the Pally people from the Hez/Hamas because in fact, these groups are running their foreign policy. If the Pally people are the victims - they are the victims of extremists on both sides - not just Israel.
Konfusion - you mentioned revenge. So I ask you - what do the rockets represent? I take a different stance - peace is not possible if you are shooting rockets at Israel.
Last edited by Pug (2007-05-29 17:39:44)
I think that there is a distinction that has already been made between collateral damage and suicide bombing.
However, I would like to note that I don't think Israel is particularly interested in punishing soldiers that go out of their way to kill civilians.
Does anyone remember that story where Israeli soldiers shot a small Palestinian girl on her way home from school like 57 times because she was to close to their base and they were afraid that she might have a bomb in her bookbag. If I remember correctly, they shot her once or twice, and then once she was on the ground, they ran out and shot her some more to "Confirm the Kill."
However, I would like to note that I don't think Israel is particularly interested in punishing soldiers that go out of their way to kill civilians.
Does anyone remember that story where Israeli soldiers shot a small Palestinian girl on her way home from school like 57 times because she was to close to their base and they were afraid that she might have a bomb in her bookbag. If I remember correctly, they shot her once or twice, and then once she was on the ground, they ran out and shot her some more to "Confirm the Kill."
That is what the thread is about. I should hope so.sergeriver wrote:
Are you aware that Israel doesn't give a shit for the civilians it may kill while bombing Palestine or Lebanon?Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
You are generalizing these actions that result in civilian death as being the same.sergeriver wrote:
We need to understand that Muslims and people from other religions are not that different. The problem is the generalization and demonisation we make of them.
In ATG's poll, Muslims said they supported suicide bombings that target civilians to defend Islam.
In your poll, Americans said they think the collateral damage of Israel's military action is justified.
There is a distinct difference here. You are drawing a connection between these two scenarios that does not exist to continue some petty argument with ATG.
Poe, you are so full of yourself. You prove my point by posting what you posted. First you come after me for being a new member(Mr. No Posts) and attack someone who agreed with me. You say to back up my arguments with factual information. What facts do I need to back up what I said? I simply stated that both sides have done wrong and done right and no one here will solve this by repeatedly posting on a game forum about the same thing over and over and over. The only fact is that there are groups out there that want nothing less than to see Israel wiped off the map and because of that there will never be peace in our lifetimes. It seems that you would love to see Israel fall as well.
"the Zionist state terror regime of Israel" as you put it.
You even state that you "generally just state what the problems are"....hmmmm. Jeez, what would we do without you? You prove my point once again, you seem to think you know what all the problems are and how to fix them and if anyone doesn't agree with you then you immediately attack them on something totally off topic. What does it matter how many times I posted? I've been a member for about 3 days!!!! I guess people must post all the time before they have a right to say something or to be taken seriously? Finally, you prove my point once again by attacking grammar and telling me to post in a pleasing manner? I can write, spell and present my post any way I damn well please...most intelligent people with OPEN minds will easily understand my point. What you don't get and probably never will, is that the way you post is both condescending and patronizing. I've been reading these forums for sometime before I joined and you are so one sided to the point of being laughable. I personally, am not Democrat or Republican, anti Israel or pro Palestinian.....I just live in the knowledge that I do my best to provide and protect my family and do what i can to help people regardless of race, creed, gender or whatever. I don't need you to tell me what to do and how to do it Mr. KnowitAll......sincerely from Mr. NoPosts
"the Zionist state terror regime of Israel" as you put it.
You even state that you "generally just state what the problems are"....hmmmm. Jeez, what would we do without you? You prove my point once again, you seem to think you know what all the problems are and how to fix them and if anyone doesn't agree with you then you immediately attack them on something totally off topic. What does it matter how many times I posted? I've been a member for about 3 days!!!! I guess people must post all the time before they have a right to say something or to be taken seriously? Finally, you prove my point once again by attacking grammar and telling me to post in a pleasing manner? I can write, spell and present my post any way I damn well please...most intelligent people with OPEN minds will easily understand my point. What you don't get and probably never will, is that the way you post is both condescending and patronizing. I've been reading these forums for sometime before I joined and you are so one sided to the point of being laughable. I personally, am not Democrat or Republican, anti Israel or pro Palestinian.....I just live in the knowledge that I do my best to provide and protect my family and do what i can to help people regardless of race, creed, gender or whatever. I don't need you to tell me what to do and how to do it Mr. KnowitAll......sincerely from Mr. NoPosts
owned!DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Poe, you are so full of yourself. You prove my point by posting what you posted. First you come after me for being a new member(Mr. No Posts) and attack someone who agreed with me. You say to back up my arguments with factual information. What facts do I need to back up what I said? I simply stated that both sides have done wrong and done right and no one here will solve this by repeatedly posting on a game forum about the same thing over and over and over. The only fact is that there are groups out there that want nothing less than to see Israel wiped off the map and because of that there will never be peace in our lifetimes. It seems that you would love to see Israel fall as well.
"the Zionist state terror regime of Israel" as you put it.
You even state that you "generally just state what the problems are"....hmmmm. Jeez, what would we do without you? You prove my point once again, you seem to think you know what all the problems are and how to fix them and if anyone doesn't agree with you then you immediately attack them on something totally off topic. What does it matter how many times I posted? I've been a member for about 3 days!!!! I guess people must post all the time before they have a right to say something or to be taken seriously? Finally, you prove my point once again by attacking grammar and telling me to post in a pleasing manner? I can write, spell and present my post any way I damn well please...most intelligent people with OPEN minds will easily understand my point. What you don't get and probably never will, is that the way you post is both condescending and patronizing. I've been reading these forums for sometime before I joined and you are so one sided to the point of being laughable. I personally, am not Democrat or Republican, anti Israel or pro Palestinian.....I just live in the knowledge that I do my best to provide and protect my family and do what i can to help people regardless of race, creed, gender or whatever. I don't need you to tell me what to do and how to do it Mr. KnowitAll......sincerely from Mr. NoPosts
good job sir.
Well put. I like what I see in this new forum member. Very insight full. You have just perfectly dissected the personality we call CameronPoe. +1DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Poe, you are so full of yourself. You prove my point by posting what you posted. First you come after me for being a new member(Mr. No Posts) and attack someone who agreed with me. You say to back up my arguments with factual information. What facts do I need to back up what I said? I simply stated that both sides have done wrong and done right and no one here will solve this by repeatedly posting on a game forum about the same thing over and over and over. The only fact is that there are groups out there that want nothing less than to see Israel wiped off the map and because of that there will never be peace in our lifetimes. It seems that you would love to see Israel fall as well.
"the Zionist state terror regime of Israel" as you put it.
You even state that you "generally just state what the problems are"....hmmmm. Jeez, what would we do without you? You prove my point once again, you seem to think you know what all the problems are and how to fix them and if anyone doesn't agree with you then you immediately attack them on something totally off topic. What does it matter how many times I posted? I've been a member for about 3 days!!!! I guess people must post all the time before they have a right to say something or to be taken seriously? Finally, you prove my point once again by attacking grammar and telling me to post in a pleasing manner? I can write, spell and present my post any way I damn well please...most intelligent people with OPEN minds will easily understand my point. What you don't get and probably never will, is that the way you post is both condescending and patronizing. I've been reading these forums for sometime before I joined and you are so one sided to the point of being laughable. I personally, am not Democrat or Republican, anti Israel or pro Palestinian.....I just live in the knowledge that I do my best to provide and protect my family and do what i can to help people regardless of race, creed, gender or whatever. I don't need you to tell me what to do and how to do it Mr. KnowitAll......sincerely from Mr. NoPosts
The 'No Posts' was aimed at the other guy - he's been around for a long time but never posts in D&ST.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Poe, you are so full of yourself. You prove my point by posting what you posted. First you come after me for being a new member(Mr. No Posts) and attack someone who agreed with me.
And I agreed with you. Or did you overlook that fact? Let me point it out:DeathBecomesYu wrote:
You say to back up my arguments with factual information. What facts do I need to back up what I said? I simply stated that both sides have done wrong and done right and no one here will solve this by repeatedly posting on a game forum about the same thing over and over and over.
CameronPoe wrote:
I am well aware of the futility of posting about Palestine on an internet forum.
CameronPoe wrote:
I don't think Hamas are capable of a ceasefire myself either.
Is that unclear in any way? Is that hard to understand? Hamas resort to terrorism on a daily basis by the way - in case you're under any illusions as to my thoughts on Hamas.CameronPoe wrote:
The Israelis should never have elected Likud and the Palestinians should never have elected Hamas.
Wow. Just. Wow. I have went into great detail and talked at length on this forum about my support for a two state solution to the Israeli problem. I pinned my hopes on Barak and Arafat, sadly they failed, but that should not mean we give up hope. Hamas and Likud/Kadima won't be in power forever. Look at what was achieved in Northern Ireland.CameronPoe wrote:
The only fact is that there are groups out there that want nothing less than to see Israel wiped off the map and because of that there will never be peace in our lifetimes. It seems that you would love to see Israel fall as well.
"the Zionist state terror regime of Israel" as you put it.
I'm sorry if me calling a spade a spade when it comes to the current Israeli government offends you but that just exposes your bias. I of course am biased towards poor honest hard-done by Palestinians, I don't support the methods used by some of them to achieve their goals however. Again you will find many a thread where I endorse guerrilla warfare under the right conditions as long as it's principled, i.e. NO ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS, MILITARY & GOVERNMENTAL targets only.
Israel ARE state terrorists. Them breaking international law since 1967 is just the tip of a less than shiny white iceberg.
Again you seem to have overlooked the part of my sentence that said:DeathBecomesYu wrote:
You even state that you "generally just state what the problems are"....hmmmm. Jeez, what would we do without you? You prove my point once again, you seem to think you know what all the problems are and how to fix them and if anyone doesn't agree with you then you immediately attack them on something totally off topic.
Pray tell what are people on a D&ST to post about if it's such a crime to 'state what the problems are'? Should we just sit around metaphorically sucking each others dicks? Where was the off-topic?CameronPoe wrote:
...don't go round that often stating that I have the golden solutions to all of lifes little problems, least of all the Palestinian problem
I was attacking the other guy and all of those who are too shy to come on this forum and state what they feel. They would rather shy behind someone else and stick in a frankly pointless 'Woooh! Go team!' or 'Pwnt, +1' than add anything of value to the discussion. I think you'll find from my responses throughout the thread that I actually took in the validity of many of your comments and in actual fact agreed with them.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
What does it matter how many times I posted? I've been a member for about 3 days!!!! I guess people must post all the time before they have a right to say something or to be taken seriously?
The patronising tone is for entertainment. It generates more vitriolic responses, which in turn is entertaining. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. In real life I never act in such a manner.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Finally, you prove my point once again by attacking grammar and telling me to post in a pleasing manner? I can write, spell and present my post any way I damn well please...most intelligent people with OPEN minds will easily understand my point. What you don't get and probably never will, is that the way you post is both condescending and patronizing.
Wow. Look who's a mite offended. If you don't like what you read then don't fucking read it. Is that so difficult? If you take every response on this forum as some command or instruction guiding your life then you're taking things a little too seriously. This is the internet. Chill the fuck out.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
I've been reading these forums for sometime before I joined and you are so one sided to the point of being laughable. I personally, am not Democrat or Republican, anti Israel or pro Palestinian.....I just live in the knowledge that I do my best to provide and protect my family and do what i can to help people regardless of race, creed, gender or whatever. I don't need you to tell me what to do and how to do it Mr. KnowitAll......sincerely from Mr. NoPosts
PS You were Mr. PointsFullOfHoles. Mainly because of the 'Israel does the best it can..' comment. I've been there - I didn't see any signs of the construction of settlements being halted while I was there in fact what I did see was thousands of spanking new Israeli houses on Palestinian land and a wall cutting right through the heart of a Palestinian neighbourhood of suburban Jerusalem. If that's the best they can do then all hope is lost.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-30 01:04:08)
ZZZZZZZZ....Need I say more...your posts say it all, you do a fabulous job in proving my thoughts about you all by yourself. I actually didn't read most of your last post(just the last paragraph) because when I kept scrolling down, I started to laugh at how seriously you take all this. You seem pretty obsessed from my point of you. Was I offended. LOL?? It takes a lot more than you to offend me. I have been on this earth long enough to let things roll off my back and move on. Maybe you could learn a lesson here, but I think that would be impossible considering all the short "stories" you write. Please continue to dissect EVERY part of every post on here. I wont waste my time doing that. I said what I said and stand by it.
Thanks for all the Karma and PM's, glad to know that there are open minded people here who aren't concerned about their E-penis and understood what I was talking about. Apparently, as a new member, I don't have enough karma points to karma back but I will when I get the chance. Moving on......
Thanks for all the Karma and PM's, glad to know that there are open minded people here who aren't concerned about their E-penis and understood what I was talking about. Apparently, as a new member, I don't have enough karma points to karma back but I will when I get the chance. Moving on......
Last edited by DeathBecomesYu (2007-05-30 01:21:17)
And look who continues to act all offended. If you don't want to read and deal with responses properly then perhaps D&ST isn't for you. I dealt with your post on a point by point basis, the least you can do is likewise.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Need I say more...your posts say it all, you do a fabulous job in proving my thoughts about you all by yourself. I actually didn't read most of your last post(just the last paragraph) because when I kept scrolling down, I started to laugh at how seriously you take all this. You seem pretty obsessed from my point of you. Was I offended. LOL?? It takes a lot more than a close minded person to offend me. I have been on this earth long enough to let things roll off my back and move on. Maybe you could learn a lesson here, but I think that would be impossible considering all the short "stories" you write. Please continue to dissect EVERY part of every post on here. I wont waste my time doing that. I said what I said and stand by it.
Thanks for all the Karma and PM's, glad to know that there are open minded people here who aren't concerned about their E-penis and understood what I was talking about. Apparently, as a new member, I don't have enough karma points to karma back but I will when I get the chance. Moving on......
PS You dissect my post inaccurately and you expect me not to dissect yours? Please...
PPS Please state in clear unambiguous terms the exact thing that you accuse me of being closed-minded about too so I can at least be afforded the ability to defend myself.
PPPS You go on about e-penis and then play the karma card (which is largely meaningless)? Hmmm.
kthx
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-30 01:28:48)