Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6836|Nårvei

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

*Special permits for collectors !

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

*A variation of all of the above !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6627|132 and Bush

All, with rights comes responsibility.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6552|South Florida

Varegg wrote:

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

*Special permits for collectors !

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

*A variation of all of the above !
Yes and while your taking all these tests, the criminal on the streets who bought his gun from "his homey" will mug you, and youll have no weapon to defend yourself with because "The GOVERNMENT needs to see if your 'mentaly fit' to own a gun"
Gun control doesnt work no matter HOW HARD YOU TRY. Its always taking away from the good citizens and giving the criminals an easier time killing or robbing you.
15 more years! 15 more years!
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6836|Nårvei

That might be the case in the beginning of a set of new rules, these must of course be heavily enforced for a long period to get rid of as many illegal guns as possible up to a point where the bad guys have a harder time getting hold of guns - holding a amnesty for the collection of illegal guns could be one of several solutions !

Of course you will never get rid of all illegal guns but by reducing it`s numbers as much as possible do make it a safer society !

Besides most of the school shootings where performed by people who legally bought a gun and that would never have passed the metal test as i described !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
jord
Member
+2,382|6705|The North, beyond the wall.
*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

Just that one.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6627|132 and Bush

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Yes and while your taking all these tests, the criminal on the streets who bought his gun from "his homey" will mug you, and youll have no weapon to defend yourself with because "The GOVERNMENT needs to see if your 'mentaly fit' to own a gun"
Gun control doesnt work no matter HOW HARD YOU TRY. Its always taking away from the good citizens and giving the criminals an easier time killing or robbing you.
Statistically how often are "muggers" fended off because grandma pulled a 45 out of her pocket book. Sure it probably has happened a few times before (And usually made the news). Now compare that with the amount deaths with legal registered firearms. I'm not for a ban or anything like that but obviously we need to examine our gun laws. Those test may seem tedious, but compare them to what you must go through to buy a house. If you have the desire to own something that could potentially take human life (accident or not) I think it is reasonable to expect someone to take a day or two to ensure that they are committed to protecting society.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
herrr_smity
Member
+156|6654|space command ur anus

Varegg wrote:

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

*Special permits for collectors !

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

*A variation of all of the above !
looks a lot like the gun laws in wonderland
Blehm98
conservative hatemonger
+150|6490|meh-land
the true affect of guns cannot be observed because the effect of the gun is to instill a fear into the potential robber, because if he picks the wrong person that person might pull out a gun.  Guns are primarily weapons of discursion from committing crime, much as the primary effect of the death penalty is to scare most criminals into not committing the really bad crimes
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|6657|Washington, DC

Blehm98 wrote:

the true affect of guns cannot be observed because the effect of the gun is to instill a fear into the potential robber, because if he picks the wrong person that person might pull out a gun.  Guns are primarily weapons of discursion from committing crime, much as the primary effect of the death penalty is to scare most criminals into not committing the really bad crimes
Kind of like nukes.

Arm the cops with Davy Crocketts.
l41e
Member
+677|6675

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Varegg wrote:

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

*Special permits for collectors !

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

*A variation of all of the above !
Yes and while your taking all these tests, the criminal on the streets who bought his gun from "his homey" will mug you, and youll have no weapon to defend yourself with because "The GOVERNMENT needs to see if your 'mentaly fit' to own a gun"
Gun control doesnt work no matter HOW HARD YOU TRY. Its always taking away from the good citizens and giving the criminals an easier time killing or robbing you.
Which is exactly why Europe has gun crime rates a tenth of ours.

Except Switzerland, which coincidentally gives everyone and their goldfish a SIG assault rifle.
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6615|United States of America
What is so complicated about the last 4 words of the second amendment.

Many flaws to your suggestions.

1. what is the point of belonging to a gun club?  Is this where you would eventually have us keep our guns locked is some super secure safe?

2. A certificate for each caliber of gun I buy what if I have two af the same caliber do I only need one certificate.

3. You want us to get a certificate before we get the gun but you want the BATFE to do a ballisic test before we can get the certificate and you want us to show we are capable of handling the gun before we can get it.
In other words you want us to get a certificate for a gun we are going to purchase that we cant get the certificate without the gun and cant get the gun with out the certificate.

4. Ballistics change over the life of the gun and the owner can change the ballistics with a simple scratch in the barrel.

5. I am not a hunter.  I am a target shooter.  I see no need to get a hunting license at the moment and shouldn't have to pay for one.

6.  Who give these test because I have had no formal training and I know how to operate my glock and rifles better than many police officers I have come across.  For instance. I was riding with a friend of mine that borrowed my .22 rifle to go hunting and we were pulled over by an Indiana State trooper.  I forget what for, a minor traffic violation.  He asked if we had an weapons in the car so my friend told him about the .22 behind the truck seat.  He had him get out of the car and he grabbed the rifle and asked if it was loaded. My friend said ya and the trooper pulled the slide back and ejected one shell.  Handed the rifle back to my friend with sixteen rounds in the tube under the barrel and one in the chamber.  We corrected his mistake and told him that it was a Semi-auto and all he did was chamber the next round.  Maybe that will help him down the road in staying alive.

7.  What would be special about the collectors permits.  Most already have permit to carry.

8. My doctor my not like guns and declare me and everybody unfit to own a gun.  Would I ever get a second chance.  Not likely

9. Finally who is going to pay for all this the one getting the permit or certificate.  Sounds expensive to me.
Hell, it has cost Canada over a Billion dollars just to try to register all their guns.

I do have an Idea that might help. Lets enforce the 40,000+ gunlaws already on the books instead of just making new ones.

Or we could try this Project Exile

Last edited by JG1567JG (2007-05-05 13:15:17)

Mitch
16 more years
+877|6552|South Florida

Kmarion wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Yes and while your taking all these tests, the criminal on the streets who bought his gun from "his homey" will mug you, and youll have no weapon to defend yourself with because "The GOVERNMENT needs to see if your 'mentaly fit' to own a gun"
Gun control doesnt work no matter HOW HARD YOU TRY. Its always taking away from the good citizens and giving the criminals an easier time killing or robbing you.
Statistically how often are "muggers" fended off because grandma pulled a 45 out of her pocket book. Sure it probably has happened a few times before (And usually made the news). Now compare that with the amount deaths with legal registered firearms. I'm not for a ban or anything like that but obviously we need to examine our gun laws. Those test may seem tedious, but compare them to what you must go through to buy a house. If you have the desire to own something that could potentially take human life (accident or not) I think it is reasonable to expect someone to take a day or two to ensure that they are committed to protecting society.
A knife can take someones life.
A razor blade can take someones life.
A rock on the end of a stick can take someones life.

They can all be considered weapons.

Why are guns so different?

Listen to this....
Lets go to a magical land where guns just 'dont exist' (i know, liberal fantasy) and the best weapon around for hunting, killing, defending, is a large stick. Now remember, this is the best weapon (just like a gun is the best weapon nowadays)

Now. Would YOU force people 'register' and get tested to own a stick so they can defend themselves from the guy who just got his stick off his nigga downtown? Now of coarse there will be dumbasses who fall on there stick and die, just like with anything, but this doesn't mean you should try to take away all sticks from everyone.

Same thing.

Last edited by Dezerteagal5 (2007-05-05 10:15:56)

15 more years! 15 more years!
IBleedGravy
Member
+3|6417|Richmond

Varegg wrote:

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

*Special permits for collectors !

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

*A variation of all of the above !
Is that you Nancy?
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6836|Nårvei

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Yes and while your taking all these tests, the criminal on the streets who bought his gun from "his homey" will mug you, and youll have no weapon to defend yourself with because "The GOVERNMENT needs to see if your 'mentaly fit' to own a gun"
Gun control doesnt work no matter HOW HARD YOU TRY. Its always taking away from the good citizens and giving the criminals an easier time killing or robbing you.
Statistically how often are "muggers" fended off because grandma pulled a 45 out of her pocket book. Sure it probably has happened a few times before (And usually made the news). Now compare that with the amount deaths with legal registered firearms. I'm not for a ban or anything like that but obviously we need to examine our gun laws. Those test may seem tedious, but compare them to what you must go through to buy a house. If you have the desire to own something that could potentially take human life (accident or not) I think it is reasonable to expect someone to take a day or two to ensure that they are committed to protecting society.
A knife can take someones life.
A razor blade can take someones life.
A rock on the end of a stick can take someones life.

They can all be considered weapons.

Why are guns so different?

Listen to this....
Lets go to a magical land where guns just 'dont exist' (i know, liberal fantasy) and the best weapon around for hunting, killing, defending, is a large stick. Now remember, this is the best weapon (just like a gun is the best weapon nowadays)

Now. Would YOU force people 'register' and get tested to own a stick so they can defend themselves from the guy who just got his stick off his nigga downtown? Now of coarse there will be dumbasses who fall on there stick and die, just like with anything, but this doesn't mean you should try to take away all sticks from everyone.

Same thing.
Why are guns, knives and stones on a stick different ? .... are you seriously asking that question ?

When was the last time a school knifing occured where a mentally disturbed kid knifed 30+ people and wounded 30+ others ?

And the magical land you are reffering to is named Norway where most of the laws described in the OP applies and we have a no less violent past and only a fraction of your deaths by guns pr capita !

Last edited by Varegg (2007-05-05 10:50:13)

Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6836|Nårvei

IBleedGravy wrote:

Varegg wrote:

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

*Special permits for collectors !

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

*A variation of all of the above !
Is that you Nancy?
No it`s your dad, go to bed or i`ll smack you silly !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6472|The Land of Scott Walker
I always kinda thought Nancy was a man.
jord
Member
+2,382|6705|The North, beyond the wall.

Varegg wrote:

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

Whats the point?

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

So if someone gets a 7.62 rifle they need to reapply for a certificate for a 5.56? Can't see the point really, they both do the same thing.

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

Seems expensive, don't bullets have serial numbers that can be traced back to the gun shop it was bought?

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

Why? Not everyone goes hunting.

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

The only one i agree with. If someone doesn't know how to work the gun then they shouldn't have one.

*Special permits for collectors !

What makes collectors special?

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

You'll just end up with anti gun doctors declaring a large number of people mentally unfit. As well as people bribing doctors or the other way around

*A variation of all of the above !
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6836|Nårvei

JG1567JG wrote:

What is so complicated about the last 4 words of the second amendment.

Many flaws to your suggestions.
That`s why we are having a discussion !

JG1567JG wrote:

1. what is the point of belonging to a gun club?  Is this where you would eventually have us keep our guns locked is some super secure safe?
It`s to get things organized thus continues training in using the gun, the more training the more secure the owner - and if you choose you may use the clubs safe to store your weapon !

JG1567JG wrote:

2. A certificate for each caliber of gun I buy what if I have two af the same caliber do I only need one certificate.
No ! The different weapons of same caliber will be on the same certificate !

JG1567JG wrote:

3. You want us to get a certificate before we get the gun but you want the BATFE to do a ballisic test before we can get the certificate and you want us to show we are capable of handling the gun before we can get it.
In other words you want us to get a certificate for a gun we are going to purchase that we cant get the certificate without the gun and cant get the gun with out the certificate.
Much of the same thing mixed together, you apply for the certificate at say a gunclub, you do the the test at the gunclub, you do the appointment at the doctor and the club has a date pr month where the ATF comes over to collect a testfired bullit !

JG1567JG wrote:

4. Ballistics change over the life of the gun and the owner can change the ballistics with a simple scratch in the barrel.
I don`t know how this would work out, it was just a thought to get the discussion going !

JG1567JG wrote:

5. I am not a hunter.  I am a target shooter.  I see no need to get a hunting license at the moment and shouldn't have to pay for one.
Different ways to solve that one, hunting license or membership at a target shooting range or gunclub !

JG1567JG wrote:

6.  Who give these test because I have had no formal training and I know how to operate my glock and rifles better than many police officers I have come across.  For instance. I was riding with a friend of mine that borrowed my .22 rifle to go hunting and we were pulled over by an Indiana State trooper.  I forget what for, a minor traffic violation.  He asked if we had an weapons in the car so my friend told him about the .22 behind the truck seat.  He had him get out of the car and he grabbed the rifle and asked if it was loaded. My friend said ya and the trooper pulled the slide back and ejected one shell.  Handed the rifle back to my friend with sixteen rounds in the tube under the barrel and one in the chamber.  We corrected his mistake and told him that it was a Semi-auto and all he did was chamber the next round.  Maybe that will help him down the road in staying alive.
Supervised by ATF perhaps, and dont judge the entire policeforce because of one single incident !

JG1567JG wrote:

7.  What would be special about the collectors permits.  Most already carry permit to carry.
Just another suggestion to spark the debate, and still you have not made one single countersuggestion !

JG1567JG wrote:

8. My doctor my not like guns and declare me and everybody unfit to own a gun.  Would I ever get a second chance.  Not likely
An doctor with a licence from ATF maybe to ensure fair judgement !

JG1567JG wrote:

9. Finally who is going to pay for all this the one getting the permit or certificate.  Sounds expensive to me.
Hell, it has cost Canada over a Billion dollars just to try to register all their guns.
Are you now putting a price on the safety of your community ?

JG1567JG wrote:

I do have an Idea that might help. Lets enforce the 40,000+ gunlaws already on the books instead of just making new ones.
Yeah, why simplify a system that doesn`t work properly or that doesn`t yield a positive effect, lets say no to progress and change !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6576|CH/BR - in UK

k30dxedle wrote:

Which is exactly why Europe has gun crime rates a tenth of ours.

Except Switzerland, which coincidentally gives everyone and their goldfish a SIG assault rifle.
Because in our country, only people who go to the army, which is a legal requirement, are allowed guns. And they are taught how to use them. And Switzerland is also a small country If racism was a crime, we would be in deep shit. You should hear what we call the refugees in our country - it's disgraceful.

-konfusion
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6836|Nårvei

jord wrote:

Varegg wrote:

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

Whats the point?

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

So if someone gets a 7.62 rifle they need to reapply for a certificate for a 5.56? Can't see the point really, they both do the same thing.

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

Seems expensive, don't bullets have serial numbers that can be traced back to the gun shop it was bought?

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

Why? Not everyone goes hunting.

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

The only one i agree with. If someone doesn't know how to work the gun then they shouldn't have one.

*Special permits for collectors !

What makes collectors special?

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

You'll just end up with anti gun doctors declaring a large number of people mentally unfit. As well as people bribing doctors or the other way around

*A variation of all of the above !
You don`t see any benefits from any of the suggestions?

And not directed at you Jord: Why is it so damn easy to question the suggestions instead of coming up with some countersuggestions ! It really make you look uncunning when you only attack rather than contribute to the debate ! Or is it because you feel it endangers your presious freedom ?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6836|Nårvei

So what does it take to get hold of a gun pr date, what are the obstacles to get a gun lagally ?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6472|The Land of Scott Walker

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

We have thousands of laws on ownership already. We already have the ones we need and many we don’t.
Just punish criminals regardless of the tools they use.
QFT
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6381

Varegg wrote:

So what does it take to get hold of a gun pr date, what are the obstacles to get a gun lagally ?
Google it for chrisakes and END this Thread.

Pretty week stuff. Norway also had a Nazi occupation.

We have thousands of laws on ownership already. We already have the ones we need and many we don’t.

Our all time record for mass murder was perpetrated with .48 cents ( aprox 1/2 dollar ) worth of gas.

Just punish criminals regardless of the tools they use.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6836|Nårvei

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Google it for chrisakes and END this Thread.

Pretty week stuff. Norway also had a Nazi occupation.

We have thousands of laws on ownership already. We already have the ones we need and many we don’t.

Our all time record for mass murder was perpetrated with .48 cents ( aprox 1/2 dollar ) worth of gas.

Just punish criminals regardless of the tools they use.
What does a nazi occupation have to do with this, and you don`t know any of you own gun laws - now that pretty week if you ask me !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
jord
Member
+2,382|6705|The North, beyond the wall.

Varegg wrote:

jord wrote:

Varegg wrote:

What could be done with the existing gun laws on restrictions and alterations without hurting your rights given by the 2nd amendment ?

*You would have to be a member of an state approved gun club and attend a minimum of meetings pr year to keep your membership !

Whats the point?

*You must apply for a certificate for each caliber gun you want to by !

So if someone gets a 7.62 rifle they need to reapply for a certificate for a 5.56? Can't see the point really, they both do the same thing.

*The ATF must register a ballistic test of your gun before you are issued the certificate, like a gun fingerprint database !

Seems expensive, don't bullets have serial numbers that can be traced back to the gun shop it was bought?

*You must acquire a hunting licence to buy a rifle !

Why? Not everyone goes hunting.

*You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !

The only one i agree with. If someone doesn't know how to work the gun then they shouldn't have one.

*Special permits for collectors !

What makes collectors special?

*A doctor must declare you mentally fit to own a gun !

You'll just end up with anti gun doctors declaring a large number of people mentally unfit. As well as people bribing doctors or the other way around

*A variation of all of the above !
You don`t see any benefits from any of the suggestions?

And not directed at you Jord: Why is it so damn easy to question the suggestions instead of coming up with some countersuggestions ! It really make you look uncunning when you only attack rather than contribute to the debate ! Or is it because you feel it endangers your presious freedom ?
Sure i can see some slight benefits. Although it seems like a lot of hassle for the tiny benefits.

The only one that makes absolutely no sense to me Varegg is the hunting one. I would of thought the majority of Us gun owners have them because of either protection or target shooting.

I wouldn't be able to come up with countersuggestions, i think with the addition your point on "You must attend a test showing you are capable of handling the gun before the certificate is issued !" would be enough. Take it one step at a time, i'd just use that one and see how it works out. This simply makes the most sense to me.

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