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2007-04-17 18:05:45
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6769

Ban cars and booze...
http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-drivi … -2003.html

Alcohol related deaths in the US since 1982:


       Total fatalities / Alcohol related fatalities 
Year  Number / Number / Percent 
1982  43,945  26,173  60 
1983  42,589  24,635  58 
1984  44,257  24,762  56 
1985  43,825  23,167  53 
1986  46,087  25,017  54 
1987  46,390  24,094  52 
1988  47,087  23,833  51 
1989  45,582  22,424  49 
1990  44,599  22,587  51 
1991  41,508  20,159  49 
1992  39,250  18,290  47 
1993  40,150  17,908  45 
1994  40,716  17,308  43 
1995  41,817  17,732  42 
1996  42,065  17,749  42 
1997  42,013  16,711  40 
1998  41,501  16,673  40 
1999  41,717  16,572  40 
2000  41,945  17,380  41 
2001  42,196  17,400  41 
2002  43,005  17,524  41 
2003  42,643  17,013  40

Last edited by usmarine2005 (2007-04-17 18:06:49)

2007-04-17 18:11:56
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6663|Lancaster Ohio, USA
@Wraith, when I was referring to gun owners locking up their guns I was referring to when they were storing them. I keep my guns locked up AT ALL times (while not shooting of course). It has nothing to do with me carrying a concealed weapon, how is someone going to steal a gun off of my person if they don't even know it's there in the first place. Yes I made have had some weak arguments but it's rather difficult for me to form arguments when I read stupid bullshit from people who think they know everything about the USA and our problems. Just for fun I am going to include pictures of me and my friend using our "evil" guns responsibly. Why? Because I can.
Me with my M-14, Remington 870 and Beretta 96 on the leg
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8121/pc180337tt0.jpg
Me and my Springfield 1911
https://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1163/pc180344fz4.jpg
My buddy Josh (you may know him as Velker around here) and his Cetme
https://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2972/pc180332se3.jpg
Our buddy Zack with my SKS
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6524/pc180341fg1.jpg

Last edited by bob_6012 (2007-04-17 18:13:47)

2007-04-17 18:15:01
Invaderzim
Chicken wing?
+49|6456|Newcastle NSW Australia
A shooting like this happened in Australia in 1996. A man named Martin Bryant walked into a cafe known as Port Arthur and shot almost every single person in the cafe before proceeding to murder several other people in the car park and the retreating to a house. He use 2 automatic rifles to carry out these murders, an AR-10 and a FN-FAL. In total he killed 35 people, somewhat similar to yesterdays shootings in America.

What astonishes me is that you still wont restrict gun ownership. Several people have put foward excellent aurguments as to why you should but still you instist that you need them for protection. As you have said, why should you be stopped from owning a fire arm just because of several deranged people? and if we have a gun we might be able to stop them.

My question: Did any one with gun come foward to save the day? or even the police that were already on the scene?
Quite plainly, No. they didnt but do you think that if there were some sort of decent gun controll laws this in place this tragedy may have been averted.

Straight after the Port Arthur massecare Gun controll in Australia was tightened significantly. Automatic weapons are no longer allowed to be owned by ANYONE. To get a gun takes a long period of time as Ty has already shown in his aurgument (Australian ans NewZeland gun laws are very similar) and even then it must be kept unloaded and locked up in a secure place.
The Australian government also introduced a gun buy back scheme were all gun owners were paid to hand in their weapons, no matter what sort of weapon it was.

Imagin if the US government was to do this. Criminals would no longer need to use their gun to shoot people for money, just trade it for money. Once collected all these weapons are destroyed and there are less fire arms in circulation therefore less need to worry about them.

It would seem to that doing nothing in your situation is like spitting in the face of the families that died and saying "hey they were a sacrifice that had to be paid so that us normal people can own a gun"
2007-04-17 18:16:13
Velker
Accused aimbot user
+31|6281|Ohio
Nice Matt, nice . That was a good day...
2007-04-17 18:21:47
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6498|Menlo Park, CA
From my cold dead hands. . . . .

I am a responsible gun owner. . . .I'm 27 and never EVER shot or have wanted to shoot someone(except maybe Osama Bin Laden and his radical followers). . . So why should I have my gun taken away?? Its within my 2nd Amendment rights to own my Glock 30!!

Bottom line is the police arent always around to protect me, or anyone else for that matter!! When the government or its agencies arent around, its up to ME to provide my OWN protection.  Who is Rosie O'Donnell(who has armed security btw) or any other liberal hack to tell me what I can and cannot own? Not too mention how I should be able to protect myself. . . .

Bottom line, guns should be allowed to be purchased to normal law abiding citizens. . . .PERIOD! As it is our right to own them.  Second, the Constitution of these United States SHALL NEVER be amended to appease some "shit for brains" liberal agenda!!

Here is a simple thought provocation (I know its hard for you overzealous liberals): Can you imagine what would have happened in Lousiana if people werent allowed to own their guns following Hurricane Katrina. . . .? Just think about the residents who were able to fight off bands of theives from stealing their livelyhoods and LIVES!!! BECAUSE they were able to protect themselves!! Hence, all looting came to people that were vulnerable due to lack of protection from the authorities.  Therefore, those who had guns were able to fend off i.e. police their own homes and neighborhoods (a job the police at that time were undermanned to acomplish).

btw: car, alcohol/smoking kills more people PER YEAR than guns. . . .banning those seem to be the logical choice huh guys. . . Smoking is terrible for your lungs, alcohol ruins your liver, and cars pollute the enviornment and kill people everyday. . . .

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-04-17 18:25:05)

2007-04-17 18:25:50
Invaderzim
Chicken wing?
+49|6456|Newcastle NSW Australia
Perhaps you shold be looking for a preventative, not a cure
2007-04-17 18:25:55
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6663|Lancaster Ohio, USA

Velker wrote:

Nice Matt, nice . That was a good day...
That it was my good friend.
2007-04-17 18:27:04
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6534|Middle of nowhere, California
wow...... i just dont understand why people try sooo hard to ban guns.. are they afraid of them or something?? if someone shoots another person, its the guy who pulled the trigger who did the killing, not the gun, it was just a tool used.... its like blaming a typo on your keyboard... and what about cars? they kill a hell of a lot more people than guns do, but are you gonna try and ban those??

ps. nice rifle bob_6012, i have a Springfield 1903 that i hunt with, and i want to get a Mauser K98

Last edited by Smitty5613 (2007-04-17 18:29:18)

2007-04-17 18:29:56
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6763|United States of America

Invaderzim wrote:

My question: Did any one with gun come foward to save the day? or even the police that were already on the scene?
You awnsered correctly; no.  The reason is because gun control on school properties are strict. I can't carry my knife at my school if I wanted to.  It's idiots like you who made it possible for this to happen.
2007-04-17 18:30:10
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6498|Menlo Park, CA

Invaderzim wrote:

Perhaps you shold be looking for a preventative, not a cure
If you are addressing me. . . .

There are many preventative measures that can be in place. . . .As there are plenty in place now!

However, if some fucked up, troubled, psychotic lunatic wants to kill, he/she is going to kill. . . .And NOTHING in the world is going to stop them, unless through chance or circumstance.

Blaming responsible people(responsible gun owners) for a few bad eggs(Kleibold, Harris, Cho Sueng), is as bad as stereotyping/labeling someone because of their race!!!
2007-04-17 18:33:35
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6534|Middle of nowhere, California

Invaderzim wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

i just dont understand why people try sooo hard to ban guns..
WOW! how much of a fucking retard are you, thats just plain offensive

Its plainly obvious that you have no idea what has happened over the past few days or have even read the rest of the disccusion.
yes, i heard of the Virgina Tech shootings.... so some nut went around shooting people.... what if he went around hitting people with his car or with a baseball bat? would you want to ban cars and baseball then??
2007-04-17 18:33:50
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6498|Menlo Park, CA

Invaderzim wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

i just dont understand why people try sooo hard to ban guns..
WOW! how much of a fucking retard are you, thats just plain offensive

Its plainly obvious that you have no idea what has happened over the past few days or have even read the rest of the disccusion.
I think anyone with the internet or television knows what has happend. . . .

However, banning guns does NOTHING to prevent sick people from committing crimes. . .

If its not guns, its knives, and once those are banned, its billy clubs, and once billy clubs are banned, WHATS NEXT???

Humans are a violent species!!! Either realize that or live in a bubble. . . . .either way, I would rather except reality for what it is, and protect myself accordingly.
2007-04-17 18:34:37
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6763|United States of America

Smitty5613 wrote:

Invaderzim wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

i just dont understand why people try sooo hard to ban guns..
WOW! how much of a fucking retard are you, thats just plain offensive

Its plainly obvious that you have no idea what has happened over the past few days or have even read the rest of the disccusion.
yes, i heard of the Virgina Tech shootings.... so some nut went around shooting people.... what if he went around hitting people with his car or with a baseball bat? would you want to ban cars and baseball then??
I vote we ban belts too, you can choke sooo many people those.  They shouldn't even be allowed on school grounds... fucking retards...
2007-04-17 18:35:25
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6663|Lancaster Ohio, USA
As I have stated earlier and am trying to get across here. Those who own firearms in the USA and those who don't and also don't live here will never see eye to eye on the topic of gun control. What we need to do is just agree to dis-agree, we're not going to change any more than you will. So why don't we just leave each other alone and go our own separate merry ways?
2007-04-17 18:39:13
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6763|United States of America

bob_6012 wrote:

As I have stated earlier and am trying to get across here. Those who own firearms in the USA and those who don't and also don't live here will never see eye to eye on the topic of gun control. What we need to do is just agree to dis-agree, we're not going to change any more than you will. So why don't we just leave each other alone and go our own separate merry ways?
We can't stop, they will keep fighting until our weapons are gone.
2007-04-17 18:39:28
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6534|Middle of nowhere, California

Miller wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

Invaderzim wrote:


WOW! how much of a fucking retard are you, thats just plain offensive

Its plainly obvious that you have no idea what has happened over the past few days or have even read the rest of the disccusion.
yes, i heard of the Virgina Tech shootings.... so some nut went around shooting people.... what if he went around hitting people with his car or with a baseball bat? would you want to ban cars and baseball then??
I vote we ban belts too, you can choke sooo many people those.  They shouldn't even be allowed on school grounds... fucking retards...
but what about scissors in school? you can seriously cut sum1 with them.... you may see a bunch of kindergartners with scissors in art class, but beware they are little terrorists!! we should ban scissors, or at least have everyone register theirs!!
2007-04-17 18:39:29
Invaderzim
Chicken wing?
+49|6456|Newcastle NSW Australia
I give up, I can't make you see sense so I wont try.
2007-04-17 18:39:33
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6498|Menlo Park, CA

bob_6012 wrote:

As I have stated earlier and am trying to get across here. Those who own firearms in the USA and those who don't and also don't live here will never see eye to eye on the topic of gun control. What we need to do is just agree to dis-agree, we're not going to change any more than you will. So why don't we just leave each other alone and go our own separate merry ways?
Exactly!! I sure as hell aint buying into some liberal bullshit about gun bans PERIOD

If the colonists didnt have the ability to protect themselves(i.e. own muskets and pistols), who knows if the USA would even have been realized. . . .

Why do you think the founders (smarter men than anyone on these forums!!) put that amendment in the constitution???? TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS!! You have the right as a citizen to protect yourself when the government is unable to do so. . . . that right shall NEVER be infringed upon.

You think Howard Dean, Rosie O'Donnell, Al Franken. . . .are going to protect you when a masked intruder comes into your house to harm you, family, and livelyhood. . . . .No!!!! The only thing that protects you, is either YOU or the police, and when the police havent arrived yet. . . .YOUR FUCKING GLOCK 30 keeps you safe!!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-04-17 18:43:29)

2007-04-17 18:41:56
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6763|United States of America

Invaderzim wrote:

I give up, I can't make you see sense so I wont try.
Good, give up.  Get over that we like to have our own protection.  The more you try to get is to see something that isn't true the more we will argue with you.  I am still getting over the .50 sniper being banned in california... There has been one record of it ever being used, honestly: who robs a store with a giant sniper?
2007-04-17 18:42:38
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6534|Middle of nowhere, California

fadedsteve wrote:

bob_6012 wrote:

As I have stated earlier and am trying to get across here. Those who own firearms in the USA and those who don't and also don't live here will never see eye to eye on the topic of gun control. What we need to do is just agree to dis-agree, we're not going to change any more than you will. So why don't we just leave each other alone and go our own separate merry ways?
Exactly!! I sure as hell aint buying into some liberal bullshit about gun bans PERIOD

If the colonists didnt have the ability to protect themselves(i.e. own muskets and pistols), who knows if the USA would even have been realized. . . .

Why do you think the founders (smarter men than anyone on these forums!!) put that amendment in the constitution???? TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS!! You have the right as a citizen to protect yourself when the government is unable to do so. . . . that right shall NEVER be infringed upon.
pffff, the colonists could have defended themselves without firearms... they just werent strong enough to, they needed guns.... they coulda tarred and feathered the british soldiers to death...
2007-04-17 18:43:37
BVC
Member
+325|6703
Tightening laws doesn't always help.  After this incident, already-restrictive laws were tightened further but gun crime still happens.  Hell, the cops did a sweep of some properties about six months ago and found a .50cal MG, grenades, pistols, claymore parts and a bunch of other assorted firearms (the criminals spawned as support and sniper), despite our laws.
2007-04-17 18:43:56
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6663|Lancaster Ohio, USA

fadedsteve wrote:

bob_6012 wrote:

As I have stated earlier and am trying to get across here. Those who own firearms in the USA and those who don't and also don't live here will never see eye to eye on the topic of gun control. What we need to do is just agree to dis-agree, we're not going to change any more than you will. So why don't we just leave each other alone and go our own separate merry ways?
Exactly!! I sure as hell aint buying into some liberal bullshit about gun bans PERIOD

If the colonists didnt have the ability to protect themselves(i.e. own muskets and pistols), who knows if the USA would even have been realized. . . .

Why do you think the founders (smarter men than anyone on these forums!!) put that amendment in the constitution???? TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS!! You have the right as a citizen to protect yourself when the government is unable to do so. . . . that right shall NEVER be infringed upon.
Amen, I'm just trying to get everyone against guns to go away. That's all, hype critical, maybe but I don't really care. Like I said we'll never agree but I just wish they would understand that.

Last edited by bob_6012 (2007-04-17 18:44:07)

2007-04-17 18:44:04
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6763|United States of America

Smitty5613 wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

bob_6012 wrote:

As I have stated earlier and am trying to get across here. Those who own firearms in the USA and those who don't and also don't live here will never see eye to eye on the topic of gun control. What we need to do is just agree to dis-agree, we're not going to change any more than you will. So why don't we just leave each other alone and go our own separate merry ways?
Exactly!! I sure as hell aint buying into some liberal bullshit about gun bans PERIOD

If the colonists didnt have the ability to protect themselves(i.e. own muskets and pistols), who knows if the USA would even have been realized. . . .

Why do you think the founders (smarter men than anyone on these forums!!) put that amendment in the constitution???? TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS!! You have the right as a citizen to protect yourself when the government is unable to do so. . . . that right shall NEVER be infringed upon.
pffff, the colonists could have defended themselves without firearms... they just werent strong enough to, they needed guns.... they coulda tarred and feathered the british soldiers to death...
That's right, pitchforks FTW!
2007-04-17 18:48:28
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6498|Menlo Park, CA

bob_6012 wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

bob_6012 wrote:

As I have stated earlier and am trying to get across here. Those who own firearms in the USA and those who don't and also don't live here will never see eye to eye on the topic of gun control. What we need to do is just agree to dis-agree, we're not going to change any more than you will. So why don't we just leave each other alone and go our own separate merry ways?
Exactly!! I sure as hell aint buying into some liberal bullshit about gun bans PERIOD

If the colonists didnt have the ability to protect themselves(i.e. own muskets and pistols), who knows if the USA would even have been realized. . . .

Why do you think the founders (smarter men than anyone on these forums!!) put that amendment in the constitution???? TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS!! You have the right as a citizen to protect yourself when the government is unable to do so. . . . that right shall NEVER be infringed upon.
Amen, I'm just trying to get everyone against guns to go away. That's all, hype critical, maybe but I don't really care. Like I said we'll never agree but I just wish they would understand that.
But you based on the fact that you simply have an opposite opinion than them, your automatically wrong in their eyes. . . .

See liberals dont have tolerance for opposite viewpoints. . . . They yell and scream and drown you out, and try to substantiate their opinion when FACT says they're wrong.

I see their argument, and its wrong. . . .Its wrong 50 times over!!
2007-04-17 18:49:36
Sanjaya
Banned
+40|6234
LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

Seriously, they may typically be the ones whining about it, but they're usually not the ones misusing them. If people weren't misusing them they probably wouldn't be whining.

As for the ban cars and booze argument, cars aren't designed with killing in mind, and they tried banning alcohol before, really didn't work.

 

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