It depends on the situation, I don't think shotguns are allowed, bolt action rifles are however allowed in certain situations I believe.jord wrote:
I'm not an expert on laws but aren't we allowed guns in England?
I'm pretty sure you can have Shotguns and Bolt action rifles.
Of course we are going to have more, we are a larger country and we have a higher crime rate over all. I find it hilarious that with banning guns, Britain still manages to rack up over 10,000 violent gun crimes, in 1 year alone.Vilham wrote:
That doesnt change shit.. Seriously you even laid out the figures. If we multiply the UK's gun crime rate by the 5 to make it count towards the same pop... thats only 50k where as US has 400k... 8x higher gun crime rate. You have put down the facts that just show that you are wrong. Thanks for proving my above point.
However.....
How the fuck does this prove your point:
Even if we completly banned guns, we would only eliminate 14% of the gun crime in America. 80% of firearms used in gun crimes are obtained illegally, just going to show that the gun controls work for the most part and keep weapons out of the hands of people who would use them for crime. The vast majority of people who obtain guns legally do not commit crimes with them.U.S. Dept of Justice wrote:
Offenders
According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%
Just because you country decided to do away with guns doesn't mean that we should too.
I never have complained about it. I have grievances with poor responses, missing the signs, and the circumstances that shape a human being into a murder.Vilham wrote:
Yeah fair enough, but i dont want to hear any of you complaining when people go around your country and shoot up malls and schools with legally bought guns. And dont give me crap about how they would get them illegally, when someone wants revenge in England they dont go into the seedy blackmarket to get a gun to take someone out, they just get a knife, but atleast that way the person being attacked has a chance and other people are unlikely to be hurt aswell.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Its incredibly hard to get a licence for a Shotgun of any kind and .22 rifle is the highest calibre rifle allowed in the UK.jord wrote:
I'm not an expert on laws but aren't we allowed guns in England?
I'm pretty sure you can have Shotguns and Bolt action rifles.
I think.
Last edited by Vilham (2007-04-17 09:55:21)
There are no signs that's the point. Sometimes people get driven too far and just snap.Kmarion wrote:
I never have complained about it. I have grievances with poor responses, missing the signs, and the circumstances that shape a human being into a murder.Vilham wrote:
Yeah fair enough, but i dont want to hear any of you complaining when people go around your country and shoot up malls and schools with legally bought guns. And dont give me crap about how they would get them illegally, when someone wants revenge in England they dont go into the seedy blackmarket to get a gun to take someone out, they just get a knife, but atleast that way the person being attacked has a chance and other people are unlikely to be hurt aswell.
Do you know what a RATE is cougar? It ignores differences in size, its the whole point in them. 8x higher rate is a HUGE difference.Cougar wrote:
Of course we are going to have more, we are a larger country and we have a higher crime rate over all. I find it hilarious that with banning guns, Britain still manages to rack up over 10,000 violent gun crimes, in 1 year alone.Vilham wrote:
That doesnt change shit.. Seriously you even laid out the figures. If we multiply the UK's gun crime rate by the 5 to make it count towards the same pop... thats only 50k where as US has 400k... 8x higher gun crime rate. You have put down the facts that just show that you are wrong. Thanks for proving my above point.
However.....
How the fuck does this prove your point:Even if we completly banned guns, we would only eliminate 14% of the gun crime in America. 80% of firearms used in gun crimes are obtained illegally, just going to show that the gun controls work for the most part and keep weapons out of the hands of people who would use them for crime. The vast majority of people who obtain guns legally do not commit crimes with them.U.S. Dept of Justice wrote:
Offenders
According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%
Just because you country decided to do away with guns doesn't mean that we should too.
Did you miss the part about 80% of guns being obtained illegally vilham!? That means you cannot apply the same rate to people who purchased their guns legally.Vilham wrote:
Do you know what a RATE is cougar? It ignores differences in size, its the whole point in them. 8x higher rate is a HUGE difference.Cougar wrote:
Of course we are going to have more, we are a larger country and we have a higher crime rate over all. I find it hilarious that with banning guns, Britain still manages to rack up over 10,000 violent gun crimes, in 1 year alone.Vilham wrote:
That doesnt change shit.. Seriously you even laid out the figures. If we multiply the UK's gun crime rate by the 5 to make it count towards the same pop... thats only 50k where as US has 400k... 8x higher gun crime rate. You have put down the facts that just show that you are wrong. Thanks for proving my above point.
However.....
How the fuck does this prove your point:Even if we completly banned guns, we would only eliminate 14% of the gun crime in America. 80% of firearms used in gun crimes are obtained illegally, just going to show that the gun controls work for the most part and keep weapons out of the hands of people who would use them for crime. The vast majority of people who obtain guns legally do not commit crimes with them.U.S. Dept of Justice wrote:
Offenders
According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%
Just because you country decided to do away with guns doesn't mean that we should too.
It is a lot easier to smuggle weapons into a country when it has poor gun control and where there is a large demand.
We playing with different statistics, we are talking about deaths, where as you are talking about all crime involving a gun.Cougar wrote:
Of course we are going to have more, we are a larger country and we have a higher crime rate over all. I find it hilarious that with banning guns, Britain still manages to rack up over 10,000 violent gun crimes, in 1 year alone.Vilham wrote:
That doesnt change shit.. Seriously you even laid out the figures. If we multiply the UK's gun crime rate by the 5 to make it count towards the same pop... thats only 50k where as US has 400k... 8x higher gun crime rate. You have put down the facts that just show that you are wrong. Thanks for proving my above point.
However.....
How the fuck does this prove your point:Even if we completly banned guns, we would only eliminate 14% of the gun crime in America. 80% of firearms used in gun crimes are obtained illegally, just going to show that the gun controls work for the most part and keep weapons out of the hands of people who would use them for crime. The vast majority of people who obtain guns legally do not commit crimes with them.U.S. Dept of Justice wrote:
Offenders
According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%
Just because you country decided to do away with guns doesn't mean that we should too.
We may be a small Island however you only have 3 times the amount of people as us, and over 40x (using your source) the amount of gun crime, heres another link on how restricting gun laws has lowered crime:
http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/gunaus.htm
Last edited by Shem (2007-04-17 10:02:31)
Well its a tragedy and the victims family have my condolences. See the thing is about legal guns imo is it would work if everybody had a sane brain. Thing is, everybody doesnt. These people that commit such crimes.. they dont think like the rest of us. Your giving them to much credit to say they could just "buy one illegally if they wanted to". These people probably arent resourceful enough or sane enough in the head to plan to get a firearm illegaly if firearms were illegal. Theyre brains just snapped, theyll look to see what they can find and if a guns so freely available theyll grab it. If guns were illegal, theyd grab a knife and so on. But at least they wouldnt be able to course such mass devastation.
That would fall under circumstances.Vilham wrote:
There are no signs that's the point. Sometimes people get driven too far and just snap.Kmarion wrote:
I never have complained about it. I have grievances with poor responses, missing the signs, and the circumstances that shape a human being into a murder.Vilham wrote:
Yeah fair enough, but i dont want to hear any of you complaining when people go around your country and shoot up malls and schools with legally bought guns. And dont give me crap about how they would get them illegally, when someone wants revenge in England they dont go into the seedy blackmarket to get a gun to take someone out, they just get a knife, but atleast that way the person being attacked has a chance and other people are unlikely to be hurt aswell.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Ohh give me a break. It's a lot easier to smuggle anything into the U.S., thats due to bad border security, not gun control. Drugs are illegal, but people still go to jail for using and selling and that shit has no problem making it over the border, but I guess guns would have.Vilham wrote:
It is a lot easier to smuggle weapons into a country when it has poor gun control and where there is a large demand.
Well thanks for bringing up another thing the US should maybe think about doing. Stop pissing about with the rest of the world and sort out its own problems like border security.Cougar wrote:
Ohh give me a break. It's a lot easier to smuggle anything into the U.S., thats due to bad border security, not gun control. Drugs are illegal, but people still go to jail for using and selling and that shit has no problem making it over the border, but I guess guns would have.Vilham wrote:
It is a lot easier to smuggle weapons into a country when it has poor gun control and where there is a large demand.
Last edited by Vilham (2007-04-17 10:07:54)
Nope, it's our God given right; and no one will ever change my mind or my freedom in owning one. Period. Thank God for the Bill of Rights, and the brave men that wrote them. May they RIP.Kmarion wrote:
Odds of getting killed by a firearm in America 0.0279271 per 1,000 people. Worth giving up your freedoms?
40 times at much my ass. I don't know where you found that number but from what I dug up it appeared we had around 7 times as much. While it's not good, I still point out the fact that 80% of the gun crimes in America are committed with guns that were obtained through illegal methods..Shem wrote:
We playing with different statistics, we are talking about deaths, where as you are talking about all crime involving a gun.
We may be a small Island however you only have 3 times the amount of people as us, and over 40x (using your source) the amount of gun crime, heres another link on how restricting gun laws has lowered crime:
http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/gunaus.htm
sorry, but you miss the point. we had such an incident in germany, not long ago. a student tried to kill others at school, but at least he only wounded them, because he hadn´t got proper firearms. we have strong regulations on firearms and so it is not easy to get illegal weapons, too. if you can buy your gun at walmart - sure it is also easy to buy them illegally, because your country is flooded with guns - if there are only few weapons purchasable and so - less weapons sold illegally - incidents like this don´t become so tragic.Cougar wrote:
You guys are missing the point. Regulating gun control wouldn't stop violent crimes such as this. If someone wants to shoot up a school and can't buy a gun legally, they would just go buy one illegally.
The type of people who do shit like this don't care about gun laws. Having legal firearms sales just makes it easier to track where the gun came from and who bought it once a crime has been committed.
sure it is still the man, who kills and not the gun - but the type of gun he uses, makes him more or less effective.
if i wanted to start a massacre, i would have to use a knife, because i don´t know where to get a gun from. you guys just drive to the next mall to get an ak47. so who is going to kill more?
the usa need to get rid of their weapons.
If there is one thing I have learned about most Americans, it is that when it comes to guns they are stubborn, and even stating proven facts and figures will not get them to admit that tighter gun controls WORK.
We are all flogging a dead horse.
We are all flogging a dead horse.
Last edited by KILLSWITCH (2007-04-17 10:11:09)
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
no, sometimes losers really need to feel important, so they seek attention in the saddest way. Almost makes me wanna become religious so that u know the guy is somewhere on the 9th level of hell right now... But using the excuse of being driven too far..wtf. Fucking college kid, how hard can his life really be? Not to mention he shot up the engineering building..why the hell did he shoot the nerds? All around, its sad. But there no excuse for this shit. As far as gun laws, doesn't seem like there is a simple excuse but i vote for take them all away. Yeah I know its a constitutional right but then this administration tends to shred the constitution and nobody says a damn thing. So fuck it, take the guns until we get a better system of keeping track of them.Vilham wrote:
There are no signs that's the point. Sometimes people get driven too far and just snap.Kmarion wrote:
I never have complained about it. I have grievances with poor responses, missing the signs, and the circumstances that shape a human being into a murder.Vilham wrote:
Yeah fair enough, but i dont want to hear any of you complaining when people go around your country and shoot up malls and schools with legally bought guns. And dont give me crap about how they would get them illegally, when someone wants revenge in England they dont go into the seedy blackmarket to get a gun to take someone out, they just get a knife, but atleast that way the person being attacked has a chance and other people are unlikely to be hurt aswell.
my 2 cents
If you own something that is your and you maintain and use it properly then you're not going to want to give it up easily are you?KILLSWITCH wrote:
If there is one thing I have learned about most Americans is that when it comes to guns they are stubborn, and even stating proven facts and figures will not get them to admit that tighter gun controls WORK.
We are all flogging a dead horse.
It's like me taking your car off you, it has the potential to kill in the wrong hands, everyone shouldn't be punished for actions of a few.
I'm sorry, but the last time I checked your country was right there along side of us, pissing with the rest of the world. Also, I don't see how you can criticize our country for having poor border control when you live on an island. Everything has to come in through a port which is easily checked. America on the other hand, has the longest unprotected border in the world (Canada), and a severely undermanned border patrol force covering Mexico, another extremely large mostly unprotected border. Not to mention we have an unfriendly neighbor 90 miles off the coast of Florida that is a hub for illegal substances and provides little to no help combating the traffic of illegal drugs.Vilham wrote:
Well thanks for bringing up another thing the US should maybe think about doing. Stop pissing about with the rest of the world and sort out its own problems like border security.Cougar wrote:
Ohh give me a break. It's a lot easier to smuggle anything into the U.S., thats due to bad border security, not gun control. Drugs are illegal, but people still go to jail for using and selling and that shit has no problem making it over the border, but I guess guns would have.Vilham wrote:
It is a lot easier to smuggle weapons into a country when it has poor gun control and where there is a large demand.
OFEKILLSWITCH wrote:
If there is one thing I have learned about most Americans, it is that when it comes to guns they are stubborn, and even stating proven facts and figures will not get them to admit that tighter gun controls WORK.
We are all flogging a dead horse.
You pretty much have that right. No one is going to change our minds. I lol, thinking that any one thinks they will actually change our American ideas about our freedoms'.
You guys are always bashing us but if you look to the south, you will find way more trouble than we have here in the states.
Its a hobby that you need to get over because its pretty pathetic.
Its a hobby that you need to get over because its pretty pathetic.
I love the United States. I own several large caliber assault rifles and I have a permit to carry a loaded, concealed handgun. I feel so much more competent and superior to the UK.
You must have missed out on the Internet Politics 101 class. America bashing is the cool thing to do. Usually fueled by jealousy if you ask me.smtt686 wrote:
You guys are always bashing us but if you look to the south, you will find way more trouble than we have here in the states.
Its a hobby that you need to get over because its pretty pathetic.
Right, wrong, whatever. I have my beliefs and you foreigners have yours. Have fun playing with video game guns but in the mean time I'll be playing with the real thing.
High five!Cougar wrote:
You must have missed out on the Internet Politics 101 class. America bashing is the cool thing to do. Usually fueled by jealousy if you ask me.smtt686 wrote:
You guys are always bashing us but if you look to the south, you will find way more trouble than we have here in the states.
Its a hobby that you need to get over because its pretty pathetic.
Right, wrong, whatever. I have my beliefs and you foreigners have yours. Have fun playing with video game guns but in the mean time I'll be playing with the real thing.