Pages: 1 2

 

2007-04-11 12:55:53
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7156|Eastern PA
In relation to the Don Imus brouhaha and other instances where racial/ethnic insensitivity/ignorance is shown, I've noticed that many tend to bring up the issue of a so-called "double standard". The debate usually hinges on the point that there are any number of offensive terms that members of a certain group can use in relation to themselves but cannot be used in reference to the group or members thereof by non-members of the group. Since this debate is usually about black people, the word in question is almost invariably "nigger".

Here's my question: Why is that a problem? There is nothing to show that most black people use the term in relation to themselves (unless someone wants to argue that all black people are rappers/from the ghetto) and it is almost universally recognized as offensive to both blacks and others. From the discussion here (and what I've encountered elsewhere) it seems as though people are peeved that some blacks can use the term, but no one else, as though your rights are being abridged because you'll get in trouble for calling black people "niggers".

It that what the issue is? Do you chafe under the colossal weight of not being able to freely describe black people as "niggers"?

EDIT: I'd like to add that I'm not calling anyone out here, but truly I don't understand the "double standard" side of the argument.

Last edited by Masques (2007-04-11 13:04:46)

2007-04-11 13:19:01
comet241
Member
+164|7199|Normal, IL
aren't there two active threads right now discussing this same thing? What, you couldn't post in those threads so you had to start a new one?

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=69631

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=69615


clearly you either aren't from america, you are and you are completely ignorant of what people say around you, or you yourself are racist and have no black friends and never get exposed to this sort of language.

black people freely call themselves and others nigger on a regular basis. They will even call me nigger sometimes (which i do find strange). example: if i make a joke, they sometimes will say something like "nigger, you crazy" .... and so on.

i dont see how you fail to recognize the double standard here. i would greatly enjoy seeing you walk up to a group of black men in downtown detroit, who may be calling each other nigger, and use the same word with them. i dare you.

its not that white people, or others, WANT to use the word nigger, it's just one of the many double standards out there that go both ways. this one just happens to be more audible and more frequently used.

honestly, i dont care what you call me, and neither should anyone else. their just words, frankly, and by accepting that and not taking words personal, you remove the power behind the word, and henceforth, the power that the person would gain by using said word.
2007-04-11 13:22:39
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7156|Eastern PA

comet241 wrote:

aren't there two active threads right now discussing this same thing? What, you couldn't post in those threads so you had to start a new one?

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=69631

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=69615


clearly you either aren't from america, you are and you are completely ignorant of what people say around you, or you yourself are racist and have no black friends and never get exposed to this sort of language.

black people freely call themselves and others nigger on a regular basis. They will even call me nigger sometimes (which i do find strange). example: if i make a joke, they sometimes will say something like "nigger, you crazy" .... and so on.

i dont see how you fail to recognize the double standard here. i would greatly enjoy seeing you walk up to a group of black men in downtown detroit, who may be calling each other nigger, and use the same word with them. i dare you.

its not that white people, or others, WANT to use the word nigger, it's just one of the many double standards out there that go both ways. this one just happens to be more audible and more frequently used.

honestly, i dont care what you call me, and neither should anyone else. their just words, frankly, and by accepting that and not taking words personal, you remove the power behind the word, and henceforth, the power that the person would gain by using said word.
You miss the point of my post. If there is a double standard, why is that a problem? The only reason I can think of is that somehow you want to use slurs to describe people, otherwise why complain about a double standard?

EDIT: I also find it odd that you would say that I'm somehow racist for not understanding why it's a problem that those who aren't black can't use the n-word to describe blacks.

EDIT II: As for the thread. This concerns a specific issue found in the other threads that I wanted to flesh out more specifically, otherwise it'd get lost in all the discussion of Don Imus. I wanted to get the opinions of the D&ST'ers on this.

Last edited by Masques (2007-04-11 13:29:55)

2007-04-11 13:23:01
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|7127
Well you don't see Arabs calling each other towel heads and camel jockeys, do you? I am angry that a majority of black people degrade themselves for calling each other niggers, yet when other people call a black person nigger, they are scrutinized, why not scrutinize everyone that uses to the word nigger?
x
2007-04-11 13:26:59
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7156|Eastern PA

Superior Mind wrote:

I am angry that a majority of black people degrade themselves for calling each other niggers, yet when other people call a black person nigger, they are scrutinized, why not scrutinize everyone that uses to the word nigger?
How do you know that? Is it because you saw it on TV?

Apparently there's a magazine run-by and concerning Jewish-Americans called "Heeb Magazine". Does this mean most Jews refer to each other as "Heebs"? I think not.
2007-04-11 13:31:02
comet241
Member
+164|7199|Normal, IL

Masques wrote:

You miss the point of my post. If there is a double standard, why is that a problem? The only reason I can think of is that somehow you want to use slurs to describe people, otherwise why complain about a double standard?

EDIT: I also find it odd that you would say that I'm somehow racist for not understanding why it's a problem that those who aren't black can't use the n-word to describe blacks.
i think you missed the point my post.

First of all: Have you ever known anybody, ever, to tolerate a double standard in any situation, any time???

Secondly: You missed the line I wrote about white people dont want to use nigger, it just goes back to the double standard argument ("if you can do it, why can't i"?)

Thirdly: I didn't call you a racist, it was one of several theories, none of which have been supported nor refuted yet.
2007-04-11 13:32:54
Magpie
international welder....Douchebag Dude, <3 ur mom
+257|6961|Milkystania, yurop
Calling somebody Negro is not the same as calling somebody nigger...If you call anybody either of those words chances are you will get your ass kicked...so dont '


And why do you feel the urge to call a coloured person for a "nigger" ? the year is 2007 not 1947

Stop with the name calling its just imature, sad and shows how dumb and ignorant you are
2007-04-11 13:33:46
cowami
OY, BITCHTITS!
+1,106|6724|Noo Yawk, Noo Yawk

Masques wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

I am angry that a majority of black people degrade themselves for calling each other niggers, yet when other people call a black person nigger, they are scrutinized, why not scrutinize everyone that uses to the word nigger?
How do you know that? Is it because you saw it on TV?

Apparently there's a magazine run-by and concerning Jewish-Americans called "Heeb Magazine". Does this mean most Jews refer to each other as "Heebs"? I think not.
He knows it because black people in this country do it all the time. Don't get me wrong, it's not all black people. Regardless, it's done by the segment of black culture that gets the most attention: hip-hop/rap. And also realize this, there's two terms that are used. The one that ends in "-a" is meant to show friendship and stuff. Using the "-er" is what is considered an insult (by black people at least).

But then again, I could be wrong. I go to school in the Bronx, so that's my take on it.
https://i.imgur.com/PfIpcdn.gif
2007-04-11 13:37:05
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|7065|Washington, DC

I think the issue is the people complaining about Imus or Richards are the same ones who want equality. If you hound out one group for saying "nigger" but not another, then you're nothing more than a hypocrite.
2007-04-11 14:08:01
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6879|The Land of Scott Walker
I will preface this post with the fact that I wince every time someone uses the n-word, not matter what race they are.  Ok, the exception being Chris Rock in his comedy routines.

No matter what race you may be, there are things you just cannot say to a person you don’t know without making them mad.  Here’s where the waters get muddy.  A black man calling another black man the n-word could be offensive depending on the context.  Yet in another context, it's apparently ok. 

As a white guy, I don’t think I can answer this question.  You’d have to ask guys who do it, because I’ll never understand why it’s ok for a black man to his friend nigger, nigga, whatever.  I don’t call my friends racial slurs in jest and I can’t comprehend why anyone else would either.  From my point of view, it’s a double standard because the black race as a whole wants equality (and rightly so).  Yet, there is no equality in relation to this word, which baffles me completely.  Are they trying to gain some sort of perceived power from using such an offensive word in a supposedly positive manner?  Who knows.
2007-04-11 14:11:04
daddyofdeath
A REAL Combat Engineer in the house
+187|6687|UK Bradford W,Yorks. Age 27
A black man calls me redneck and I'll slap the black off his ass.
2007-04-11 14:15:10
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7078

comet241 wrote:

black people freely call themselves and others nigger on a regular basis. They will even call me nigger sometimes (which i do find strange). example: if i make a joke, they sometimes will say something like "nigger, you crazy" .... and so on.
so with that logic, all white people do is make generalized statements about groups of people because they may know a handful. with that logic, from what i see on these forums ALL white people are racist. 



kinda retarded to get to that conclusion aint it?

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2007-04-11 14:17:01)

2007-04-11 14:57:26
Wreckognize
Member
+294|6919
They don't call each other nigger.  They pronounce it nigga.  I talked to one of my black co-workers shortly after the Kramer Incident about this.  He explained to me that (to him at least) nigger is an offensive word, but nigga is used as a term of endearment.
2007-04-11 15:04:38
Villain{NY}
Banned
+44|6778|New York
It's just a word.  It's rappers and thugs that glorify it at the cost of their dignity, and people like Sharpton and Jackson that use it as a stepping stone to further their own agenda.
2007-04-11 15:17:45
Jameseyy
Banned
+108|6662|Scotland!

Magpie wrote:

Calling somebody Negro is not the same as calling somebody nigger...If you call anybody either of those words chances are you will get your ass kicked...so dont '


And why do you feel the urge to call a coloured person for a "nigger" ? the year is 2007 not 1947

Stop with the name calling its just imature, sad and shows how dumb and ignorant you are
Looking at your sig and then what you typed screams irony to me.
2007-04-11 15:37:42
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6849|Vienna

Quiz time... +1 for right answer

People that annoy you ?

N*GGERS = ?
2007-04-11 15:41:41
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7031|Seattle

zeidmaan wrote:

Quiz time... +1 for right answer

People that annoy you ?

N*GGERS = ?
Your post is considered inappropriate, please refrain from posting this sort of material. {quote}

See you in 3 days jackass.

If anyone else wants to be immature about this, they will get the hammer as well.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2007-04-11 15:47:30
comet241
Member
+164|7199|Normal, IL

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

comet241 wrote:

black people freely call themselves and others nigger on a regular basis. They will even call me nigger sometimes (which i do find strange). example: if i make a joke, they sometimes will say something like "nigger, you crazy" .... and so on.
so with that logic, all white people do is make generalized statements about groups of people because they may know a handful. with that logic, from what i see on these forums ALL white people are racist. 



kinda retarded to get to that conclusion aint it?
nope. statements such as that are a quick and dirty response to someone else, using a personal account as an example. backing up the logic is many other unsaid experiences, education, stories, events, and general knowledge.

i didnt use the word all, but i didn't add the disclaimer that i didn't mean all. Im sorry to confuse you, but that's what i meant. I thought it should be able to go unstated. In my experience I have met many black people who freely use the word nigg er/a and those who abhor the idea of using the word.

To follow my line of logic again, basically the word is being tossed around a lot these days. However, it seems that the majority of people using the word (besides those responding to this thread) are of the hip hop/rap generation/culture... specifically black people of that group. These same people, again, i dont mean all, but i suppose i have to say that now, take offense at anyone outside of their group using the word, like we're using their secret code language and we're not supposed to.

My theory is that it's just a word, as i stated earlier. If you want to make something lose meaning, open it up to the public. Would the White House be so special if anybody could stay there like a motel 6??? Would smoking a joint be such a big deal if it were legal??? Would disney world be such a "magical" place if there were one on every corner and admission was free???

You starting to get my point?

They (again, there is that generalization, i dont mean all, but i mean some... jesus im such a racist) are perpetuating the continuation of the negative connotations associated with the word by making such a big deal out of it.

It's just a word. Treat it as such and a problem goes away. As long as there is a double standard with the word (one group can use it and another cannot), there will always be a negative backlash and offense taken every time someone who isn't "allowed" to say it says it.
2007-04-11 15:58:05
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7078

comet241 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

comet241 wrote:

black people freely call themselves and others nigger on a regular basis. They will even call me nigger sometimes (which i do find strange). example: if i make a joke, they sometimes will say something like "nigger, you crazy" .... and so on.
so with that logic, all white people do is make generalized statements about groups of people because they may know a handful. with that logic, from what i see on these forums ALL white people are racist. 



kinda retarded to get to that conclusion aint it?
nope. statements such as that are a quick and dirty response to someone else, using a personal account as an example. backing up the logic is many other unsaid experiences, education, stories, events, and general knowledge.

i didnt use the word all, but i didn't add the disclaimer that i didn't mean all. Im sorry to confuse you, but that's what i meant. I thought it should be able to go unstated. In my experience I have met many black people who freely use the word nigg er/a and those who abhor the idea of using the word.

To follow my line of logic again, basically the word is being tossed around a lot these days. However, it seems that the majority of people using the word (besides those responding to this thread) are of the hip hop/rap generation/culture... specifically black people of that group. These same people, again, i dont mean all, but i suppose i have to say that now, take offense at anyone outside of their group using the word, like we're using their secret code language and we're not supposed to.

My theory is that it's just a word, as i stated earlier. If you want to make something lose meaning, open it up to the public. Would the White House be so special if anybody could stay there like a motel 6??? Would smoking a joint be such a big deal if it were legal??? Would disney world be such a "magical" place if there were one on every corner and admission was free???

You starting to get my point?

They (again, there is that generalization, i dont mean all, but i mean some... jesus im such a racist) are perpetuating the continuation of the negative connotations associated with the word by making such a big deal out of it.

It's just a word. Treat it as such and a problem goes away. As long as there is a double standard with the word (one group can use it and another cannot), there will always be a negative backlash and offense taken every time someone who isn't "allowed" to say it says it.
yeah all well and good and i agree with you but you missed what im saying.  you say "Black People"  tell me,  have you met every single person who considers themself black in the country?  you dont know all "black people" 


if i see nothing but white people complaining about using the word nigger, with your logic, even though i dont know all white people im gonna make that generalization.  WHite people are dying to call black people niggers.  I dont believe that at all, just using that as an example.  i dont know all white power, but from what i can see on this forum, white people are all racist.  you get it?   its stupid to generalize and assume that actions of a handful of people represent the entire group.
2007-04-11 16:08:17
DooM
Member
+28|6741
Haha, funny how its such a terrible crime to say a word.

If one day someone made up a word a defined that word as a racist word against blacks would that again become such an offence to say it. Im not tryna stir anything but people get way too offended over simple words. Someone calls me a cracker or w.e im not exactly going to go on a vendetta about it am I.
2007-04-11 16:12:33
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7105|UK
man ppl are being banned left right and centre today.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2007-04-11 16:24:40
comet241
Member
+164|7199|Normal, IL

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

yeah all well and good and i agree with you but you missed what im saying.  you say "Black People"  tell me,  have you met every single person who considers themself black in the country?  you dont know all "black people" 


if i see nothing but white people complaining about using the word nigger, with your logic, even though i dont know all white people im gonna make that generalization.  WHite people are dying to call black people niggers.  I dont believe that at all, just using that as an example.  i dont know all white power, but from what i can see on this forum, white people are all racist.  you get it?   its stupid to generalize and assume that actions of a handful of people represent the entire group.
holy crap, im done repeating myself. why do you keep thinking im some sort of racist or that i keep saying "all"?

READ MY PREVIOUS POST

I never used the word all, in fact, i think i made it clear that i didnt mean all, i meant some.

If you want somebody to argue with, you're picking the wrong person. im pretty sure we agree on this topic, more or less.

I meant exactly what I said. for clarification, read it again.
2007-04-11 16:27:24
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6984|CH/BR - in UK

It's the same as gay people using "queer" and some women using "bitch" talking to each other. I am personally very much against it. People are neglecting their history - black people had to fight for centuries to get rid of that term, to have the rights they have today and to finally put an end to slavery - now they turn it on themselves by doing this. It is derogatory, offensive to older generations of black people (I'll just say in the USA for now) and sullying their efforts in the past.
Many people listen to rap, and as the singer is much more likely to be black, they will often hear the word "nigger" and sing along with it. If black people nowadays get offended by that, then why do they sing it? Why do they say it amongst themselves? It's as if we (white people) would start calling each other "whitey" and "white trash". This is one hell of a double-standard, imo.

-konfusion
2007-04-11 16:39:13
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7078

comet241 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

yeah all well and good and i agree with you but you missed what im saying.  you say "Black People"  tell me,  have you met every single person who considers themself black in the country?  you dont know all "black people" 


if i see nothing but white people complaining about using the word nigger, with your logic, even though i dont know all white people im gonna make that generalization.  WHite people are dying to call black people niggers.  I dont believe that at all, just using that as an example.  i dont know all white power, but from what i can see on this forum, white people are all racist.  you get it?   its stupid to generalize and assume that actions of a handful of people represent the entire group.
holy crap, im done repeating myself. why do you keep thinking im some sort of racist or that i keep saying "all"?

READ MY PREVIOUS POST

I never used the word all, in fact, i think i made it clear that i didnt mean all, i meant some.

If you want somebody to argue with, you're picking the wrong person. im pretty sure we agree on this topic, more or less.

I meant exactly what I said. for clarification, read it again.
i was judging your generalizations not your racism tough guy.  read the first sentence of my last post, better yet re-read the whole thing 5 times.

I wrote:

its stupid to generalize and assume that actions of a handful of people represent the entire group.
in referrence to your

comet241 wrote:

black people freely call themselves and others nigger on a regular basis.
wasnt call you a racist.  i was saying how you have no right to make any statement regarding black people as a whole, whether it be positive or negative, because thats as I see it is part of the problem.  its like comparing the human race with a breed of dog.  "Black people do this and this and this"  " Pit Bulls do this and this and this"  I think thats part of the problem of racism in America as a whole.  Im not offended, i dont think you mean it.
2007-04-11 17:01:58
comet241
Member
+164|7199|Normal, IL
I hate to repeat myself here, i said i wouldn't, but read my post again, seriously. How many times do i have to explain that i dont/didnt mean all. i even added disclaimers explaining what i meant, multiple times. i added that i have known black people who were the exact opposite. i explained exactly what group of people i meant, i hate to have to explain that every time i reference "them", so i use the general term. I think most people got the point, but you seem to want to find the "racist" in everybody, going so far as "reading between the lines" on posts "interpreting" what I meant and so on. I think, as i said last post, that i was pretty damn clear on what i meant. Again, re-read if you still dont understand it. If it will help, i'll highlight the areas where i even reference my own "generalizations" as a means to avoid explaining the same thing over and over and over each time i reference something/somebody.

nobody else here thinks i meant ALL BLACK PEOPLE. Not even close. i said exactly which group of people i meant. even within that group there are detractors, which i pointed out already. im sorry you're having a hard time understanding this.

 

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