I just watched a PBS documentary on evolution. As proof that humans and chimpanzees descended from a common ancestor, they said we share 98% of our DNA in common. So if you asked a Darwinian biologist, “What is the difference between a human and a chimpanzee?” he would say, “Random mutations in the DNA that have been “naturally selected” by the environment over millions of years have produced species like chimpanzees, gorillas, and humans. The genetic blueprints are essentially the same with a variance of only 2% accounting for differences in physical traits.” But I question whether it is reasonable to believe that the human mind can be explained by a few mutations in the DNA when it is contrasted with the rest of the animal kingdom. The greatest accomplishment of the chimpanzee world in the last 30 million years is using a stick as a “tool” by putting it down a hole to gather termites. That’s it, the sum of chimpanzee achievement! But according to Darwinians, putting a stick down a hole, and flying a man 250,000 miles through outerspace to land on the moon can be explained by 2% of our DNA. They live in trees while we built the great pyramids and 150+ story skyscrapers—because of only 2%. They pick dead skin off each other while we do heart transplant surgeries and slice the brain electronically with CT scans—because of only 2%. They might drop objects from the treetops on intruders, while we can level a city 50 miles wide with a hydrogen bomb—because of 2%. They move through the forest swinging from branch to branch, while we travel at 4 times the speed the sound in an SR71 fighter jet—because of 2%. So this is my question: Can 2% of our DNA really explain why a satellite is orbiting the earth, beaming precise pulses of waves to the DirectTV dish of some farmhouse in Ohio, and the family inside is watching The Matrix Reloaded on their High-Definition Plasma TV, while a chimpanzee is picking its nose in the jungle? What if our biology isn’t everything that makes us human? What if all these great accomplishments are expressions of something more godly than a modified ape? For me, that is the more logical interpretation of the evidence.
Think about the numbers alone.
2% is a huge amount when you're talking about the amount of information at hand and the length of time these changes have had to take place.
Think of it this way...every one hundred things you do, randomly choose two of those events and do the opposite. See how long it takes until your day/week/month/life is radically different.
2% is a huge amount when you're talking about the amount of information at hand and the length of time these changes have had to take place.
Think of it this way...every one hundred things you do, randomly choose two of those events and do the opposite. See how long it takes until your day/week/month/life is radically different.
LOL... Naturalistic explanations - are the only explanations there are; for anything you actually know. God did it - is tantamount to a non-explanation; it is equal to “I don’t know” or “I don’t understand.”
Is 2% really a "huge amount?" With is the difference in DNA material between a deer and a moose?
Another way of putting this is nature tries to provide a balance between predator and prey ie. cheetahs never becomes so fast that they kill all the gazelles. So why did nature create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?
Another way of putting this is nature tries to provide a balance between predator and prey ie. cheetahs never becomes so fast that they kill all the gazelles. So why did nature create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?
Nature is unconcerned, it makes no judgments, it is a blind watchmaker, and there is no "caring"; nature is utterly indifferent; as it is not an entity with a mind; nor emotion; it does not matter to the Universe or to Nature if biology implodes and destroys itself.righthandfork wrote:
Is 2% really a "huge amount?" With is the difference in DNA material between a deer and a moose?
Another way of putting this is nature tries to provide a balance between predator and prey ie. cheetahs never becomes so fast that they kill all the gazelles. So why did nature create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?
And of course LOL in the EXTREME! ... Using your own statement:
righthandfork wrote:
So why did GOD create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?
Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-05 13:37:25)
But how much of that 2% is the hairiness of the chimp, the size of the chimp, its teeth etc. What percentage is actual brain capacity?ThomasMorgan wrote:
Think about the numbers alone.
2% is a huge amount when you're talking about the amount of information at hand and the length of time these changes have had to take place.
Think of it this way...every one hundred things you do, randomly choose two of those events and do the opposite. See how long it takes until your day/week/month/life is radically different.
I think this is a pretty good argument.
Yes, it is a huge amount. Think of all the information that your DNA holds. It would be the equivalent of trillions of bits of data. 2% of one trillion is still twenty billion. That is twenty billion things different than a chimpanzee. I would say that's a huge amount.righthandfork wrote:
Is 2% really a "huge amount?" With is the difference in DNA material between a deer and a moose?
Another way of putting this is nature tries to provide a balance between predator and prey ie. cheetahs never becomes so fast that they kill all the gazelles. So why did nature create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?
Also, I could play devil's advocate and ask you why a supposedly kind and benevolent god chose to "create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?"
Probably because he was tired of watching stupid animals run around flinging their shit at each other.ThomasMorgan wrote:
Yes, it is a huge amount. Think of all the information that your DNA holds. It would be the equivalent of trillions of bits of data. 2% of one trillion is still twenty billion. That is twenty billion things different than a chimpanzee. I would say that's a huge amount.righthandfork wrote:
Is 2% really a "huge amount?" With is the difference in DNA material between a deer and a moose?
Another way of putting this is nature tries to provide a balance between predator and prey ie. cheetahs never becomes so fast that they kill all the gazelles. So why did nature create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?
Also, I could play devil's advocate and ask you why a supposedly kind and benevolent god chose to "create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?"
Yes 2% in DNA terms (and what it does) is huge.... but the reason why is complex in its self!righthandfork wrote:
Is 2% really a "huge amount?" With is the difference in DNA material between a deer and a moose?
Basic mis-understanding of evolution - your treating nature like a thinking thing and that would be ID not evolution.righthandfork wrote:
So why did nature create a freak capable of destroying all forms of life on the planet?
Evolution/nature created an organism that could learn the rest we did in a timescale that to evolution is a fraction of a blink in the eye - 'it' hasnt even noticed its cocked up yet.
oh.my.god.
I thought we had stopped this a year ago?
-konfusion
I thought we had stopped this a year ago?
-konfusion
Aye, dont know why its all kicked off again - Easter maybe?Konfusion0 wrote:
oh.my.god.
I thought we had stopped this a year ago?
-konfusion
Look it is fact... Evolution is a FACT.
Also, here is a recent discovery regarding the reason humans have less chromosome pairs than chimps.
Skip down to...
Genes of the Chromosome 2 fusion site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee_Genome_Project
http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm
2a & 2b fussion into one human gene - clear evidence of common ancestry:
Also much more evidence exists; clear evidence; of common ancestry, when studying human
and chimpanzee retroviruses.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/18/10254
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 174826.htm
http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/80/4/835.pdf
ERVs are retroviruses that have become part of a genome as they have inserted their DNA into a genome in a rather parasitic fashion. Not only do the chimp and human genomes share the same exact retroviral insertion locations, but they also share the same type of ERV in that location.
Differences
http://www.hhmi.org/news/pdf/eichler2.pdf
And any difference is a difference; 2% of 3 billion (base pair changes) - in the right place - equals a massive amount of change. Also, why the hell would the % that does not need to be different - be different. There is no reason for protein encoding, blood chemsitry, calcium use in bones, basic template structures/forms like teeth, hair, a liver, a heart, etc... none of this needs to be significantly different.
Also, here is a recent discovery regarding the reason humans have less chromosome pairs than chimps.
Skip down to...
Genes of the Chromosome 2 fusion site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee_Genome_Project
http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm
2a & 2b fussion into one human gene - clear evidence of common ancestry:
Also much more evidence exists; clear evidence; of common ancestry, when studying human
and chimpanzee retroviruses.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/18/10254
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 174826.htm
http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/80/4/835.pdf
ERVs are retroviruses that have become part of a genome as they have inserted their DNA into a genome in a rather parasitic fashion. Not only do the chimp and human genomes share the same exact retroviral insertion locations, but they also share the same type of ERV in that location.
Differences
http://www.hhmi.org/news/pdf/eichler2.pdf
And any difference is a difference; 2% of 3 billion (base pair changes) - in the right place - equals a massive amount of change. Also, why the hell would the % that does not need to be different - be different. There is no reason for protein encoding, blood chemsitry, calcium use in bones, basic template structures/forms like teeth, hair, a liver, a heart, etc... none of this needs to be significantly different.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-06 08:42:30)
if god wanted us to be all this superior he made us this way millions of years ago.
But the earth is only 6000 years old!!!!!!!^*AlphA*^ wrote:
if god wanted us to be all this superior he made us this way millions of years ago.
I love it how people with absolutely no understanding of genetics or biology are attempting to make a statement about it. I would try to explain the basics, but its too much effort for an audience who won't listen anyway, as it would seem from your ignorant posts.
To join in here:
All plants and animals actually share several traits of DNA. Every plant and animal has their DNA in a double helix formation that is made up of the same 4 chemical building blocks. The only thing that makes every living entity on this planet different is the way that they are arranged on the double helix and that animals happen to have more chromosomes then plants.
source: http://www.earthsky.org/faq/49937/dna-animals-plants
The main difference in Human and Chimp DNA is 2% and that is a massive difference but also what makes the regions of DNA that do not code anything at all. It is in these regions that there are highly accelerated evolutionary differences can occur in any species, not just humans. We happened to use our bodies much differently then Chimps so our DNA used these regions to code our DNA a little bit differently so that our bodies would change to suit our lives better.
source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 104633.htm
Now, I dont mean to toot my own horn but doesn't all this proof of evolution and change make the silly idea of a god....well...silly? All people do is blame what they wont take the time to research on their "god." [rant] there is no such thing, so get your head out of your arse and look at the world around you because some magical guy in the sky didn't make life appear out of thin air, it took billions of years of evolution and change for us to get to where we are today. Religion is for people that cant deal with their lives so they blame/praise a "god" so their pea-sized brains can cope with the world around them. [/rant]
All plants and animals actually share several traits of DNA. Every plant and animal has their DNA in a double helix formation that is made up of the same 4 chemical building blocks. The only thing that makes every living entity on this planet different is the way that they are arranged on the double helix and that animals happen to have more chromosomes then plants.
source: http://www.earthsky.org/faq/49937/dna-animals-plants
The main difference in Human and Chimp DNA is 2% and that is a massive difference but also what makes the regions of DNA that do not code anything at all. It is in these regions that there are highly accelerated evolutionary differences can occur in any species, not just humans. We happened to use our bodies much differently then Chimps so our DNA used these regions to code our DNA a little bit differently so that our bodies would change to suit our lives better.
source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 104633.htm
Now, I dont mean to toot my own horn but doesn't all this proof of evolution and change make the silly idea of a god....well...silly? All people do is blame what they wont take the time to research on their "god." [rant] there is no such thing, so get your head out of your arse and look at the world around you because some magical guy in the sky didn't make life appear out of thin air, it took billions of years of evolution and change for us to get to where we are today. Religion is for people that cant deal with their lives so they blame/praise a "god" so their pea-sized brains can cope with the world around them. [/rant]
Last edited by Pernicious544 (2007-04-05 12:49:04)
its more like 12 000cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
But the earth is only 6000 years old!!!!!!!^*AlphA*^ wrote:
if god wanted us to be all this superior he made us this way millions of years ago.
Last edited by herrr_smity (2007-04-05 12:48:43)
This whole argument is weak! Two percent is more than adequate for these changes. If you don't believe me, answer this question: Why can't Forrest Gump create an atom bomb? His DNA variance with Albert Einstein is functionally 100%. If the human race consisted of nothing but people who were mildly retarded, we'd still be picking our freaking noses in the jungle. Two percent speaks volumes.
Now stop making up silly arguments to prove your religious convictions. If they're real, then you shouldn't have to struggle to convince the rest of us.
Now stop making up silly arguments to prove your religious convictions. If they're real, then you shouldn't have to struggle to convince the rest of us.
I'll bet it's the same guy registering over and over again and making these anti-atheist/evolution threads...
Why would God not make the other animals as smart as humans? What an asshole.
Hard to argue with that... seems like it.k30dxedle wrote:
I'll bet it's the same guy registering over and over again and making these anti-atheist/evolution threads...
LOOK AT THIS FUCKING DUPLICITOUS BULLSHIT!
Pat yourself on the back for your fucking idiotic idea... why don't ya.doublestuforeo wrote:
I'm surprised that none of you even find the idea interesting. He never said evolution doesnt exist. He didnt even say that we didnt evolve from apes.
Humans are so incredibly different than apes, not just in technological advances, but emotionally, phillisophically, communicatively, physically. It is amazing that we can be so incredibly different when we are so similar genetically.
As far as we know, we are the only intelligent life that has ever existed in the history of the universe. I find that interesting.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-05 13:23:14)
Give Forest Gump 500 years to live and he'll figure it out. Some day.chittydog wrote:
This whole argument is weak! Two percent is more than adequate for these changes. If you don't believe me, answer this question: Why can't Forrest Gump create an atom bomb? His DNA variance with Albert Einstein is functionally 100%. If the human race consisted of nothing but people who were mildly retarded, we'd still be picking our freaking noses in the jungle. Two percent speaks volumes.
Now stop making up silly arguments to prove your religious convictions. If they're real, then you shouldn't have to struggle to convince the rest of us.
I'm surprised that none of you even find the idea interesting. He never said evolution doesnt exist. He didnt even say that we didnt evolve from apes.
Humans are so incredibly different than apes, not just in technological advances, but emotionally, phillisophically, communicatively, physically. It is amazing that we can be so incredibly different when we are so similar genetically.
As far as we know, we are the only intelligent life that has ever existed in the history of the universe. I find that interesting.
Humans are so incredibly different than apes, not just in technological advances, but emotionally, phillisophically, communicatively, physically. It is amazing that we can be so incredibly different when we are so similar genetically.
As far as we know, we are the only intelligent life that has ever existed in the history of the universe. I find that interesting.
Actually it isnt. But what does that have to do with anything?topal63 wrote:
Hard to argue with that... seems like it.k30dxedle wrote:
I'll bet it's the same guy registering over and over again and making these anti-atheist/evolution threads...
doublestuforeo wrote:
Actually it isnt. But what does that have to do with anything?topal63 wrote:
Hard to argue with that... seems like it.k30dxedle wrote:
I'll bet it's the same guy registering over and over again and making these anti-atheist/evolution threads...
Rules of BF2s wrote:
No duplicate accounts. You only need one. Households are exempt, but you better let a mod know first.