Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6843
the nade launchers should be true secondary weapons, meaning you don't have to switch to them in order to fire them.

they should work like this: select your rifle/nade combo, primary fire shoots the rifle, secondary fire shoots the nade. that way, they actually complement the rifle instead of being a standalone weapon. note that this requires a new key, secondary fire, which is independent of the zoom/iron sights key.

this presents a problem with reloading, since without two reload keys you have no way of telling the game whether to reload your rifle or your nade launcher. so, i propose that when you fire your nade and hit reload, it reloads both the rifle AND the nade launcher. any leftover ammo in the rifle will be lost. the combined reload time can be a bit longer than normal, if needed for balance.

consider these changes carefully. people who run around using nothing but the nade launcher will be left with no ammo whatsoever once they shoot all four nades, since each time they reload the nade launcher they also lose a magazine of rifle ammo. so, this new system promotes the careful use of the nade launcher as an ACCESSORY to the rifle.

but it's not just about nerfing the nade launcher. assault players GAIN something as well, namely the devastating ability to shoot bullets and nades without having to switch weapons. this makes surviving a tough firefight easier, since you will be able to dish out a greater amount of damage before having to reload.

this enhances specialisation of roles and squad play. assault players become more deadly in the short term, and they would be able to clear rooms and groups of enemies more efficiently. however, they will run dry of ammo roughly twice as quickly as before, as well as being vulnerable while reloading. so, while the assault class makes the perfect spearhead to an attack, they will need squadmates to cover them while they reload and keep them supplied with ammo.


now all the people who bitch about 'noob toobs' can flame me. i don't care what they think. the real gamers know the value of true secondary weapons. anyone who's played UT will agree.
SysTray
"Generous mods" < Thats right Systray !
+180|6844|Delaware
Noob tubers don't use the rifle part period, hence the name. But other than that I like the idea.
HarryNak
Member
+0|6741
plx shoot me with your noob tube if you have no skill to aim, blow me
M90Medic
Wiki Contributor
+2|6777|Medicland, sthlm

But on the other hand, switching weapons from rifle to 203 is a great balancing thing. It takes a little time, easy. I think true assault players, those guys that blast you with 203 at medium to long range, will be unfairly nerfed by this.
SMTBANANA
Member
+0|6740
most noob tubers I have met,when they miss the first shoot,they just keep jumping until reload is finished.A fast switch between M203 and M16 is not necessary for them,perhaps?
In real life,you need to switch to the M203 trigger to fire the M203 too.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6843
remember this is not a nerf.

it's more about making both the rifle and nade launcher accessible at the same time without having to switch weapons.

the ammo balance was created to try and ensure that this wouldn't cause assault to be overpowered [which it can't really ever be, in such a vehicle oriented game]

good assault players should welcome this change, i don't think they'd find it to be a nerf at all.
topal63
. . .
+533|6742
Switching modes is like re-loading it takes time; I hate it; a good-player against me having to select handgun,
rather than wait for a re-load - I'M DEAD -

Wait for re-load (or the switch to rifle-mode on the tuber) = usually - I'M DEAD -

Against a not so good player it doesn't matter - they're not that difficult to kill with any weapon.

They should leave it AS IS; as you get better at the game - you will be very-difficult to kill one-on-one.
Sud
Member
+0|6771
now all the people who bitch about 'noob toobs' can flame me. i don't care what they think. the real gamers know the value of true secondary weapons. anyone who's played UT will agree.
Except the people who play UT have fairly balanced weaponry, and a game developer that fixes bugs and exploits in a timely manner.

First, tube isn't a secondary weapon, because secondary weapons are meant to be situational. Tube used to bombard long ranged entrenchments is a secondary usage. Tube used at short range for an easy kill is not balanced in any way shape or form. Second, the guns provided in BF2 don't physically work like that. You have to actually flip the switch on the top of the gun, which requires a second of preparation to pull off. Considering you're getting a weapon that's powerful enough to demolish a frigging hummer in 2 hits, this is more than fair.

It needs to be made a secondary weapon in its battle-desiredness, the only reason it's NOT currently is simply because it is TOO POWERFUL. Your idea does nothing to make it a "secondary weapon", it just simply tries to make it more powerful than it is already.

Seriously, do we really need more of this guy running around? http://bf2s.com/player/=ds=gatekeeper/

Last edited by Sud (2005-12-07 13:16:01)

NamelessMarine
Member
+0|6759
First thing they should do is fix the animation.  When you switch from M16 to M203, your player raises the noch site.  When you switch back, it looks like he's pulling the M16 back up from having it hang somewhere.

Other than that bit of thought the idea is ok I guess...I liked what Delta Force had for their M16/M203 combo.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6843

Sud wrote:

people who play UT have fairly balanced weaponry, and a game developer that fixes bugs and exploits in a timely manner.
you're right in the fact that bf2's infantry game as a whole is weak and ill-balanced, compared to UT. but bf2 has much stronger vehicles, comparatively speaking. UT onslaught vehicles are nowhere near as safe as bf2's vehicles are - it's very rare for anyone to survive for a long time in any vehicle, unlike BF2. the point is, even though the nade launcher is very good against infantry, THAT'S WHAT IT IS MEANT TO DO. the nades do little against armor, and armor is a big part of the game. that's why people who say the 'noob toob' is unbalanced aren't thinking clearly - they're only considering the infantry and not the game as a whole. let's face it, BF2 is more of a vehicle game than it is an infantry game.

Sud wrote:

First, tube isn't a secondary weapon, because secondary weapons are meant to be situational. Tube used to bombard long ranged entrenchments is a secondary usage. Tube used at short range for an easy kill is not balanced in any way shape or form.
with my proposed changes to the reload/ammo system, the nade launcher would be more situational than it is now. this is mostly because people will no longer be able to use it exclusively when they spawn, shooting off all four nades and then switching to their rifle. they would have to instead use both intermittently, which means using each when appropriate. they're still going to blast you at close range, but i don't have a problem with that at all. it's no more annoying or unbalanced than spawning into a tank shell or having the MEC helo circle the TV station roof on sharqi. it's all part of the game.

Sud wrote:

Second, the guns provided in BF2 don't physically work like that. You have to actually flip the switch on the top of the gun, which requires a second of preparation to pull off. Considering you're getting a weapon that's powerful enough to demolish a frigging hummer in 2 hits, this is more than fair.
this is a good point, the part about the sights anyway. i didn't consider the fact that nade launchers have separate sights. i think the thing to do would be to use the deault crosshairs for the rifle and nade launcher. i know the anti-toobers will probably cry foul at this, saying that the more intuitive crosshairs will make the nade launcher even more powerful. but consider this, having an easier to use sight would mean we can hit things further away - which is what the anti-toobers wanted in the first place. i know that personally, i never use the elevators on the nade launcher sights. i just learned the nade's arc and got good at eyeballing it. so replacing the nade sights with the default crosshairs wouldn't make much of a difference in the way i play.
mcgid1
Meh...
+129|6740|Austin, TX/San Antonio, TX
This was tried in Battlfield Vietnam, and it worked out fairly well.  The only real complaint was that the grenade launcher prevented the assualt kit from having a zoomed view.  As for the issue about reloading, EA made it so that when the grenade was fired the launcher was automatically reloaded, preventing the loss of ammo for the rifle.  If you really wanted to get rid of the noobtubers, a better way might be to have a directional explosion, like what the claymore does, so that if they try to use the grenade launcher at point blank, the explosion will shoot back and catch them in the face.  I realize that there would be a few problems with this, such as being able to lob a nade behind a barricade and having the directional explosion kill the person behind it, but it would prevent the bunnyhopping noobtubers from being able to walk right up and kill you with out them taking any damage.
[E.S.W.A.T.]Quik
Member
+1|6739|Wicklow,ireland
guys i think i found a way of taking a tank out with a couple of gl nades hit in under the barrel of the cannon like between the turret and the hull took me a single nade last night it might have been fluke but i got kick\banned because they thought i was cheating it worked so well i wonder could you guys try and let me kno wheter it was just a fluke or not
[E.S.W.A.T.]Quik
Member
+1|6739|Wicklow,ireland
totally agree there are also the guyss who think the spawn points on wake are duck shooting galleries jump in the jet and just rape everyone as the spawn god i hate spawn rapers
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6843

this is  not a noob tube complaint thread!

discuss the changes proposed please.
topal63
. . .
+533|6742
Leave it as is - it doesn't matter. . .

Can I take out a player that does not move enough or into dangereous locations - easily! Stop complaining & get better at not getting tubed.

Can I take a tank or plan or chopper out with a tubular love toss? No. . . There is no imbalance just newbies or players deficient in experience; you can learn to aviod the so-called noob-tube.
NamelessMarine
Member
+0|6759
Drop the tube and gain a master key?
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6843
i'm all for a shotgun attachment, it shouldn't replace the GL but would be a great addition.
h4r13quin
Member
+0|6751
It would be nice if the switch between using the m16 and using the m203 was quicker for tactical purposes.  Most of the people that abuse the m203 just leave it on the whole time anyway.  For those who use it right I think the switch should occur in such a way that after sliding the hand from holding to the trigger the GL is ready to fire right away, however the yellow (or whatever color you changed them to) bars for aiming wouldn't be available right away making the shot a little more guess work for those who aren't too experienced with the GL attachment.  I still think it should just reload the GL separately but another idea might be cutting the supply from 5 total to 3 or 2 grenades.  The rest of the issues of abused GL's reflect the gameplay philosophy of the server mixed with the quality of the admins.
omg! Buck_McCoy
Member
+0|6797|Germany
I also think that reloading the m203 and the rifle always at the same time and losing a nade and a magazine doesnt make so much sense. I know Joint Operations isnĀ“t very popular in the USA, but look at that game: You are able to shoot grenades just by pressing a button and without switching to a launcher. I am in a clan that plays mainly Joint Ops (although I am not a JO Player) and I can tell that Grenades are of much more importance in JO than in BF2. Well, the grenades in JO are stronger anyway compared to the Bf2 grenades but nonetheless: The same would happen in Bf2 if one had a "hotkey" to fire grenades, the assault class would become much more powerful - at least if the grenades remain unchanged . I think it is good the way it is.

Last edited by omg! Buck_McCoy (2005-12-10 20:13:49)

Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6798|Noizyland

Grenade launchers should not be a secondary weapon. Like switching between firing modes, Switching between rifle and GL requires a switch to be flicked on the actual weapon. This takes time.

Also for the many of us who actually like to use bullets, sacrificing aiming is not going to happen. I will fight for my right to aim. Even if I have to face an army of n00b-t00bers.

Anyway, if you legitimatly, (I use that word lightly,) use the GL on people at a distance, the minimal time it takes to switch between rifle and GL shouldn't matter. I mean, c'mon, it's about a second or even less.

Last edited by Tyferra (2005-12-10 20:22:41)

[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6843
well obviously the GL works as is, otherwise people wouldn't be bitching and moaning about noob tubes all the time. as for legitimate, it's legitimate as long as you're not hacking. people who don't use the GL at close range are just depriving themselves of a useful tool, because other people sure as hell will not stop doing it just because you find it annoying.

but the class is 'assault.' it would be much more true to name of you had the ability to fire a full magazine PLUS a grenade without having to reload or switch weapons. it's only a second, but that's an eternity in combat. the added lethality means that it will be easier for an assault soldier to engage [and more importantly, kill] multiple enemies very quickly, which is the whole point of the class.

Last edited by Krappyappy (2005-12-11 02:35:19)

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