BF2S Forums Atheism is illogical

righthandfork wrote:

Hi I am new to the forum, but from what I gather many of you have strong views on religion.  I believe in God because it is the only logical thing to do.  This is why…

Take this simple statement:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

1.  It is impossible to prove this statement true.
2.  It is impossible to prove this statement false.
3.  This statement has to be either true or false.

Since a person can choose to believe or not to believe, and since this statement has to be either true or false, there are only four possible outcomes:

1.  A person believes, the statement is true, and he attains eternal life.
2.  A person believes, the statement is false, and he ceases to exist.
3.  A person does not believe, the statement is true, and he is damned to hell.
4.  A person does not believe, the statement is false, and he ceases to exist.

If a person cannot prove this statement false, and he is logical, then he will choose to believe because that is his only chance for a favorable outcome. 

So deductive logic tells us that atheists are illogical unless they can prove that the statement above is false. 

Now obviously there are other religions out there that promise eternal life and it would be just as logical to believe in them, because as long as there is a chance of a positive outcome, the choice would be considered logical.  It seems the most logical choice would be to believe in as many religions as possible, so I guess I’ll have to concede that I’m not the most logical.  But my only point is that choosing to believe in something that can only lead to negative outcomes is illogical:)

righthandfork wrote:

1.  A person believes, the statement is true, and he attains eternal life.
2.  A person believes, the statement is false, and he ceases to exist.
3.  A person does not believe, the statement is true, and he is damned to hell.
4.  A person does not believe, the statement is false, and he ceases to exist.

ATG wrote:

I have always thought atheism to be as silly as taking the Bible literally.

Nobody knows.

Kmarion wrote:

This is interesting..

Dr. Francis Collins, interesting guy. wrote:

As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God’s language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God’s plan.

    I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked “What do you believe, doctor?”, I began searching for answers.

    —

    I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds. My earlier atheist’s assertion that “I know there is no God” emerged as the least defensible. As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, “Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative.”

I can relate. Eight years at the Hubble Space Telescope project had a similar effect on me. I was never an atheist as Dr. Collins was, and I didn’t head up anything on the scale of the Human Genome Project, but examining the universe in detail through Hubble’s eye at first challenged, and then strengthened, my faith. For me, it was a supernova — Supernova 1987A, to be exact, and how its position 168,000 light-years from us makes it a TiVO writ large that we can use to figure out how large and old the universe is by yardsticking distances to it and other supernovas, eventually all the way out as far as we can see, and then rewinding back to the Big Bang. Genesis 1 turned out to be one of the most interesting and profound documents ever written, once you start to get the science of it all. The God of the Bible is the God of the genome is the God of the distant dying star. If you’re interested in the how and why of that, here's an article I wrote a while back that attempts to explain some of it.

More with Dr. Francis Collins

Kmarion wrote:

This is interesting..
Genesis 1 turned out to be one of the most interesting and profound documents ever written, once you start to get the science of it all.

Last edited by Freke1 (2007-04-08 19:47:22)

chuyskywalker wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

d) Atheists WILL choose to believe in a God if proof of God appears (ie. the skies part and a huge floating head of God tells everyone to stop killing each other and be nice, witnessed by the entire world etc.)

Actually, no, that wouldn't convince an atheist. That would provide a VERY solid foundation for the hypothesis of god's existence, but atheists would demand more appearances, personal interviews, and tangible, testable, and re-verifiable evidence on a regular basis for them to believe in god.

Atheists believe in gravity, not because it happened once, but because it can be observed, measured, tested, and returns the same, set, standards results every time.

(I hate hitting these threads late... I always feel like an ass for backquoting...)

ATG wrote:

chuyskywalker wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

d) Atheists WILL choose to believe in a God if proof of God appears (ie. the skies part and a huge floating head of God tells everyone to stop killing each other and be nice, witnessed by the entire world etc.)

Actually, no, that wouldn't convince an atheist. That would provide a VERY solid foundation for the hypothesis of god's existence, but atheists would demand more appearances, personal interviews, and tangible, testable, and re-verifiable evidence on a regular basis for them to believe in god.

Atheists believe in gravity, not because it happened once, but because it can be observed, measured, tested, and returns the same, set, standards results every time.

(I hate hitting these threads late... I always feel like an ass for backquoting...)

Well, I personally dig it when you chose to post with us. Better late than never.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-09 14:29:52)

lowing wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

Hi I am new to the forum, but from what I gather many of you have strong views on religion.  I believe in God because it is the only logical thing to do.  This is why…

Take this simple statement:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

1.  It is impossible to prove this statement true.
2.  It is impossible to prove this statement false.
3.  This statement has to be either true or false.

Since a person can choose to believe or not to believe, and since this statement has to be either true or false, there are only four possible outcomes:

1.  A person believes, the statement is true, and he attains eternal life.
2.  A person believes, the statement is false, and he ceases to exist.
3.  A person does not believe, the statement is true, and he is damned to hell.
4.  A person does not believe, the statement is false, and he ceases to exist.

If a person cannot prove this statement false, and he is logical, then he will choose to believe because that is his only chance for a favorable outcome. 

So deductive logic tells us that atheists are illogical unless they can prove that the statement above is false. 

Now obviously there are other religions out there that promise eternal life and it would be just as logical to believe in them, because as long as there is a chance of a positive outcome, the choice would be considered logical.  It seems the most logical choice would be to believe in as many religions as possible, so I guess I’ll have to concede that I’m not the most logical.  But my only point is that choosing to believe in something that can only lead to negative outcomes is illogical:)

Hmmm, so an atheist HAS to PROVE something is false, and a believer only needs faith??? How the hell does that work??

How about this.

The Holy Trinity is "illogical":

The father the son and the holy spirit


You are father
You are the Son
You are the Holy Spirit

Only one can be true, LOGIC dictates this, but to PROVE this is true all you can throw at me is faith??? YOU are not charged with the burden of proof, that this is fact?? I am charged with the burden to prove that this is false?? Wow pretty convenient for your argument isn't it?

theelviscerator wrote:

The funny part when atheists say they can be moral they are still agreeing with Scripture,

Bad thing is moral behavior alone AT TIMES, will still send you straight to hell. Since nobody is moral even by their own loose code 100% of the time.