debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
How do you feel about this?
there have been a few around here that have unfairly graded some based on how "strong" their faith is instead of their intelligence. supervised yes, banned no
banning would cause any out rage especial for Muslims. But from my experience from 5 years in a "religious school" for roman catholics; only 60 % where Christians, the rest where Muslims, Jews, non believers, buddist. So we had a quite a mix and everyone got along but we all to go the Roman catholic masses on easter, christmas, etc. So when you say relgious school i assume really "strict" religious school where you have to be a jew to be in a jewish school, and a baptist in a baptisit school, those i say good for them learn more about their faith but they will still have to learn their english, math, biology, and chemistry still
Last edited by agent146 (2007-04-01 02:37:36)
This makes absolutely no sense as a general statement. You want to outlaw primary & secondary schools such as Catholic schools, and the graduate schools that prepare clergy?SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
I think you need to elaborate on your premise for this to be a productive thread.
Freedom of religion = freedom to go to a religious school.
Court cases HAVE been fought over this.
Court cases HAVE been fought over this.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Outlaw this and you'd have to outlaw Sunday school. Religious schools are, for the most part, voluntary. Here, you can go to a public school if you'd rather. If a kid doesn't want to absorb the faith, he can steel his mind against it. However, they do need to be watched closely, as student records can be adversely affected by fanatic teachers and administrators for religious reasons.SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-04-01 02:58:20)
and what if that law was to be changed? a freedom we also have! if there is a problem with society, the law can be adjusted to deal with it. strict religious schools must enforce the teachings from their bibles: unbelievers are sinners. Apart from the closed community that the students would already be in, they would be told from an early age on that their religion is better, and that others are wrong. Is this not a real threat for a society that wants to be free of discrimination? religion can be taught perfectly well in schools that do not enforce one particulair view or religion. If parents wish for their children to be taught about their religion, or language, then said school can arrange for such classes to be given. This way those students will actually mix with all kinds of people and not be separated from society, raised in a community that makes them believe their way is the right way and to befriend only each other.Spark wrote:
Freedom of religion = freedom to go to a religious school.
Court cases HAVE been fought over this.
I agree wholeheartedly with Sarge's last post. The only way I can imagine achieving that, though, is by slowly changing the religious schools to become more like the - well - non religious ones. If anyone were to try to ban them, there would be an uproar.
-konfusion
-konfusion
OK, now I see your point. In your quest to remove the unfortunate prejudices that emerge from religion, you wish that religion would be a "life accessory" rather than a "life foundation" ... that is, if you are Catholic, just ring some bells and burn some smoke on a Sunday, rather than actually having it make a difference in one's life.SargeV1.4 wrote:
Apart from the closed community that the students would already be in, they would be told from an early age on that their religion is better, and that others are wrong. Is this not a real threat for a society that wants to be free of discrimination? religion can be taught perfectly well in schools that do not enforce one particulair view or religion. If parents wish for their children to be taught about their religion, or language, then said school can arrange for such classes to be given. This way those students will actually mix with all kinds of people and not be separated from society, raised in a community that makes them believe their way is the right way and to befriend only each other.
All religions promote a way of life that is advertised as superior to other ways of life. If you remove this core element of religion, then it becomes impotent and pointless.
Now, unfortunately, religion becomes perverted when prejudice emerges out of it rather than what should emerge. For example, Christianity teaches that sacrificial love should emerge from a follower ... however, many perverted "Christians" practice prejudice (a form of hatred) rather than love.
Edit: you are not going to remove this prejudice by merely eliminating schools ... from a government standpoint, you would also need to ban all religions and install something like secular humanism as the state "religion."
Hey, if you want to go cutting up your constitution, AND override numerous precenents...SargeV1.4 wrote:
and what if that law was to be changed? a freedom we also have! if there is a problem with society, the law can be adjusted to deal with it. strict religious schools must enforce the teachings from their bibles: unbelievers are sinners. Apart from the closed community that the students would already be in, they would be told from an early age on that their religion is better, and that others are wrong. Is this not a real threat for a society that wants to be free of discrimination? religion can be taught perfectly well in schools that do not enforce one particulair view or religion. If parents wish for their children to be taught about their religion, or language, then said school can arrange for such classes to be given. This way those students will actually mix with all kinds of people and not be separated from society, raised in a community that makes them believe their way is the right way and to befriend only each other.Spark wrote:
Freedom of religion = freedom to go to a religious school.
Court cases HAVE been fought over this.
If you don't want schools to teach you religion, go to a non-religious school. It's simple as that.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Religious schools only in private education, not public.
Absolutely not!!! I am agnostic but this action does nothing except curtail an individuals right to life liberty and happiness. If they want to go to school to learn about their faith of interest, then so be it. I can think of nothing that slaps the face of freedom harder than something like you suggest.SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
Last edited by lowing (2007-04-01 05:08:22)
somebody needs to learn how to debate: Provide arguments, and respond to mineSpark wrote:
Hey, if you want to go cutting up your constitution, AND override numerous precenents...SargeV1.4 wrote:
and what if that law was to be changed? a freedom we also have! if there is a problem with society, the law can be adjusted to deal with it. strict religious schools must enforce the teachings from their bibles: unbelievers are sinners. Apart from the closed community that the students would already be in, they would be told from an early age on that their religion is better, and that others are wrong. Is this not a real threat for a society that wants to be free of discrimination? religion can be taught perfectly well in schools that do not enforce one particulair view or religion. If parents wish for their children to be taught about their religion, or language, then said school can arrange for such classes to be given. This way those students will actually mix with all kinds of people and not be separated from society, raised in a community that makes them believe their way is the right way and to befriend only each other.Spark wrote:
Freedom of religion = freedom to go to a religious school.
Court cases HAVE been fought over this.
If you don't want schools to teach you religion, go to a non-religious school. It's simple as that.
how would it be pointless? religious people who believe they should discriminate non-believers, cant do so by law. everybody would have it as a life accessory according to what you just said. people can believe, but not practice. They can believe that anyone different should die, but they can't voice their opinions or act it out. Because of that no law-abiding religious citizen truly follows his religion.OrangeHound wrote:
OK, now I see your point. In your quest to remove the unfortunate prejudices that emerge from religion, you wish that religion would be a "life accessory" rather than a "life foundation" ... that is, if you are Catholic, just ring some bells and burn some smoke on a Sunday, rather than actually having it make a difference in one's life.SargeV1.4 wrote:
Apart from the closed community that the students would already be in, they would be told from an early age on that their religion is better, and that others are wrong. Is this not a real threat for a society that wants to be free of discrimination? religion can be taught perfectly well in schools that do not enforce one particulair view or religion. If parents wish for their children to be taught about their religion, or language, then said school can arrange for such classes to be given. This way those students will actually mix with all kinds of people and not be separated from society, raised in a community that makes them believe their way is the right way and to befriend only each other.
All religions promote a way of life that is advertised as superior to other ways of life. If you remove this core element of religion, then it becomes impotent and pointless.
Now, unfortunately, religion becomes perverted when prejudice emerges out of it rather than what should emerge. For example, Christianity teaches that sacrificial love should emerge from a follower ... however, many perverted "Christians" practice prejudice (a form of hatred) rather than love.
Edit: you are not going to remove this prejudice by merely eliminating schools ... from a government standpoint, you would also need to ban all religions and install something like secular humanism as the state "religion."
no, but considering the thousands of children who are raised this way, and will be indoctrinated according to how their parents want them to be, I'd rather not have those schools than have them. If it takes 20 small things to fix one big thing, you dont say no to fixing one small thing because it gets you nowhere. Like that you will get nowhere!
As I said before..........."Absolutely not!!! I am agnostic but this action does nothing except curtail an individuals right to life liberty and happiness. If they want to go to school to learn about their faith of interest, then so be it. I can think of nothing that slaps the face of freedom harder than something like you suggest."SargeV1.4 wrote:
how would it be pointless? religious people who believe they should discriminate non-believers, cant do so by law. everybody would have it as a life accessory according to what you just said. people can believe, but not practice. They can believe that anyone different should die, but they can't voice their opinions or act it out. Because of that no law-abiding religious citizen truly follows his religion.OrangeHound wrote:
OK, now I see your point. In your quest to remove the unfortunate prejudices that emerge from religion, you wish that religion would be a "life accessory" rather than a "life foundation" ... that is, if you are Catholic, just ring some bells and burn some smoke on a Sunday, rather than actually having it make a difference in one's life.SargeV1.4 wrote:
Apart from the closed community that the students would already be in, they would be told from an early age on that their religion is better, and that others are wrong. Is this not a real threat for a society that wants to be free of discrimination? religion can be taught perfectly well in schools that do not enforce one particulair view or religion. If parents wish for their children to be taught about their religion, or language, then said school can arrange for such classes to be given. This way those students will actually mix with all kinds of people and not be separated from society, raised in a community that makes them believe their way is the right way and to befriend only each other.
All religions promote a way of life that is advertised as superior to other ways of life. If you remove this core element of religion, then it becomes impotent and pointless.
Now, unfortunately, religion becomes perverted when prejudice emerges out of it rather than what should emerge. For example, Christianity teaches that sacrificial love should emerge from a follower ... however, many perverted "Christians" practice prejudice (a form of hatred) rather than love.
Edit: you are not going to remove this prejudice by merely eliminating schools ... from a government standpoint, you would also need to ban all religions and install something like secular humanism as the state "religion."
no, but considering the thousands of children who are raised this way, and will be indoctrinated according to how their parents want them to be, I'd rather not have those schools than have them. If it takes 20 small things to fix one big thing, you dont say no to fixing one small thing because it gets you nowhere. Like that you will get nowhere!
You need convince people with words, not through action. People have the freedom to choose.
I'll put it this way... Madrasahs are the source of much of the Middle East's extremism. I think they should be outlawed in Iraq and Afghanistan.SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
Religious schools in America don't usually contribute to this same extremism. If I'm not mistaken, we have a few madrasahs here, and as far as I know, they don't have the same problems. I think the reason for this is that we have a much more open society here. We generally accept or at least tolerate our differences in America, so extremism has less reason to exist here.
In the harshly dogmatic atmosphere of certain areas in the Middle East, it's easy for people to get "wound up" with religious fervor that often dips into extremism. It would seem that Iraq and Afghanistan are both particularly vulnerable to this kind of thing, so we should probably do everything possible to promote strictly secular education in those countries.
Naw man, there cool, but maybe there should be an athiest school, eh? yeah? huh? i would go to it, i bet ide fucking learn too! learn more then ive ever learned before, considering i wouldnt be as filtered as those christian school kids, how the fuck are you suppose to learn about dinosaurs, and evolution, god damnit schools should teach evolution! That makes me mad that they dont, im going to make a thread about it.SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
15 more years! 15 more years!
I think if they want strict schooling for specific religions, then they should just go to church everyday if they really want to learn.
At least here in Sweden i beleive we have restrictions such as they have to teach about the evolution.Dezerteagal5 wrote:
Naw man, there cool, but maybe there should be an athiest school, eh? yeah? huh? i would go to it, i bet ide fucking learn too! learn more then ive ever learned before, considering i wouldnt be as filtered as those christian school kids, how the fuck are you suppose to learn about dinosaurs, and evolution, god damnit schools should teach evolution! That makes me mad that they dont, im going to make a thread about it.SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
For the most part, that's true of America, but education laws vary from state to state. For example, Kansas is notorious for being one of the most backwards states in the country when it comes to the evolution issue.madmurre wrote:
At least here in Sweden i beleive we have restrictions such as they have to teach about the evolution.Dezerteagal5 wrote:
Naw man, there cool, but maybe there should be an athiest school, eh? yeah? huh? i would go to it, i bet ide fucking learn too! learn more then ive ever learned before, considering i wouldnt be as filtered as those christian school kids, how the fuck are you suppose to learn about dinosaurs, and evolution, god damnit schools should teach evolution! That makes me mad that they dont, im going to make a thread about it.SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
Yeah saw some on TV about the freaks that wanted to abandon the teach about evoloution was hillarious and scary at the same time.
Ban them. It's not a schools place to be teaching religion anyway, that should be up to the parents. Alternatively, ban religion altogether and you'd solve a lot more problems than just religious schooling.SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?
The schools are usually private in this country, anyway. People are, for some reason, paying to go to a school that is not a public one, (and they often have uniforms...ahhhhhhh!) so let them. It's also not that they teach JUST religion there. Sure, you may go to church and learn more about religion than in a public school but you still have the same aptitude levels.
What he said.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Religious schools only in private education, not public.
Nothing wrong with private religious schools.
I'm not aware of any christian schools that outlaw non-believers from attending. I know that in the US, you can't have the school accredited if you are actively discriminating against a certain race or religious background...even if it's a Catholic school.SargeV1.4 wrote:
debate: schools that are meant to teach one kind of religious people only should be outlawed (strict christian schools, islamic schools, etc.)
How do you feel about this?