usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6809|Columbus, Ohio
"The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature,"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/pl_ … lyforce_dc
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|7143|Little Rock, Arkansas
I agree with it.

As someone who went though his concealed carry class last week, I wish my state had such a clear definition of justification for deadly force. Though, the lack of clarity in Arkansas law does give someone "wiggle room," should he or she actually be charged (unlikely as it is in this state).

The part I think is awesome is the shield from civil liability. Criminals (and their families) shouldn't be able to sue you if they are injured or killed in the commission of their crimes.
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|7201|San Antonio, Texas
I agree with that statement.
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7221|Great Brown North

blisteringsilence wrote:

Criminals (and their families) shouldn't be able to sue you if they are injured or killed in the commission of their crimes.
damn right they shouldnt


i too agree
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6777|Oregon
yes... the definition of "self defense" should be legally and definitively clarified.

That would prevent so much legal bullshit.

Unfortunately, but understandably, it can never be clearly defined because there is too much conditional circumstance in any given instance.
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|7201|San Antonio, Texas

krazed wrote:

blisteringsilence wrote:

Criminals (and their families) shouldn't be able to sue you if they are injured or killed in the commission of their crimes.
damn right they shouldnt


i too agree
Well, I just want to say, if you're going to shoot someone ALWAYS shoot to kill.

1) They cannot harm you anymore.
2) It puts them out of their misery fast.
3) They cannot sue you. (Their family could but you only get one side of the story, your side.) 
4) I know there are more reasons but I'm too tired to think of them right now.
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|7143|Little Rock, Arkansas

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

krazed wrote:

blisteringsilence wrote:

Criminals (and their families) shouldn't be able to sue you if they are injured or killed in the commission of their crimes.
damn right they shouldnt


i too agree
Well, I just want to say, if you're going to shoot someone ALWAYS shoot to kill.

1) They cannot harm you anymore.
2) It puts them out of their misery fast.
3) They cannot sue you. (Their family could but you only get one side of the story, your side.) 
4) I know there are more reasons but I'm too tired to think of them right now.
When I was in high school, the old sheriff for the county I lived in retired (20+ years of service), and there was a pretty close contest to see who would replace him. I remember when one of the local news stations did a feature piece on each of the guys that was running, maybe 3 or 4 of them. The man who ended up running had been a deputy in the county for like 12 years, and had been in an officer-involved shooting in the late 80's. The reporter, being all "hard," thought she'd skunk the sheriff's deputy by asking him "the hard questions." This is how it went:

"So, deputy Doerge, I understand that you were involved in a shooting in [like 1989, I don't remember exactly]."

"Yep, I was"

"And I understand that you were, in fact, the officer that shot the man"

"Well, ma'am, he was a criminal fleeing from justice, but yes, that's right, I was the one who shot him."

"As I understand it, you shot him 6 times. Why was that?"

Well, ma'am, back in those days, we carried .357 magnum revolvers. They only hold 6 rounds in the cylinder."

"But why did you shoot him with all your bullets?"

"Ma'am, anything worth shooting once is worth shooting until you're out of bullets."

And that was the end of the interview. He won, by a landslide. It became an unofficial campaign slogan. The "man on the street" loved that such an honest law-and-order kind of guy was running.

And the reporter got fired.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7003

usmarine2007 wrote:

"The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature,"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/pl_ … lyforce_dc
I agree with it, but retreat is a recognised form of defense, and is touted as the first resort by every self defense instructor I've spoken to.  Where retreat isn't feasible (that is, it isn't possible or it makes one significantly more vulnerable) then use of force is perfectly appropriate.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6836|The Gem Saloon

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

"The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature,"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/pl_ … lyforce_dc
I agree with it, but retreat is a recognised form of defense, and is touted as the first resort by every self defense instructor I've spoken to.  Where retreat isn't feasible (that is, it isn't possible or it makes one significantly more vulnerable) then use of force is perfectly appropriate.
i would probably retreat if i were you also bubs.
especially if you had to defend yourself with a firearm.
HunterOfSkulls
Rated EC-10
+246|6721
A smart man always keeps retreat as an option. Only mall ninjas and gun-store commandos act like retreat is never acceptable.

That said, I'm curious what happens under this law should someone shoot someone else who turns out to not have been a threat at all ie. someone at the wrong house's front door or similar. I guess they and their families would just be shit out of luck?

In retrospect, I should probably state right up front that I am 100% in favor of people being able to use physical force to defend themselves and others. My only concern is the broadening of these laws (as well as the utter jackass fanboy gimps who refer to this as the "Castle Doctrine" with such disturbing enthusiasm) making it far easier for someone to arbitrarily decide someone is a threat requiring lethal force.

Last edited by HunterOfSkulls (2007-03-28 01:50:32)

RicardoBlanco
The English
+177|7010|Oxford

usmarine2007 wrote:

"The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature,"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/pl_ … lyforce_dc
I don't think anyone will disagree with the statement. Imminent and Harm can be a little vague and ambiguous though.

Last edited by RicardoBlanco (2007-03-28 01:49:59)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7003

Parker wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

"The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature,"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/pl_ … lyforce_dc
I agree with it, but retreat is a recognised form of defense, and is touted as the first resort by every self defense instructor I've spoken to.  Where retreat isn't feasible (that is, it isn't possible or it makes one significantly more vulnerable) then use of force is perfectly appropriate.
i would probably retreat if i were you also bubs.
especially if you had to defend yourself with a firearm.
Ooh, big man on campus, running around making dipshit remarks.  I've actually had to use weapons to defend myself on two seperate occasions.  Once I had to kill someone.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6991|CH/BR - in UK

Well, in court you can twist anyone's words to make it fit into what you want. I'm against the right to bear arms, unless you're in the army, police, or have been in either. I don't like guns...

-konfusion
artofsurvival
Idiot!
+33|6798|the Great British Queendom :)
Dudes,
Its quite simple "Runaway"! As here in Great Britain we really don't have many guns that are out of Policce/Goverment Control we have the right to defend ourselves to a responsible level, you can incapacitate someone but you cannot kill! Can't remember the guys name but we recently had a farmer who shot dead 1 burgular and seriously injured another whilst the 2 assilant where entering his house (not farm or out buildings), he ended up serving a 10 year prison sentence! During which time the living assailant recovered and then proceeded to sue said farmer, it got thrown out of court. But we do have the right to defend ourselves in our own homes "A Englishman's House is His Castle" etc, etc: So killing within the 4 fours of your propety is allowed, in self defence of course, ie: someone has to attack you first!
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7003

Konfusion0 wrote:

I'm against the right to bear arms, unless you're in the army, police, or have been in either.
Out of curiousity, why?
crimson_grunt
Shitty Disposition (apparently)
+214|7096|Teesside, UK

artofsurvival wrote:

Dudes,
Its quite simple "Runaway"! As here in Great Britain we really don't have many guns that are out of Policce/Goverment Control we have the right to defend ourselves to a responsible level, you can incapacitate someone but you cannot kill! Can't remember the guys name but we recently had a farmer who shot dead 1 burgular and seriously injured another whilst the 2 assilant where entering his house (not farm or out buildings), he ended up serving a 10 year prison sentence! During which time the living assailant recovered and then proceeded to sue said farmer, it got thrown out of court. But we do have the right to defend ourselves in our own homes "A Englishman's House is His Castle" etc, etc: So killing within the 4 fours of your propety is allowed, in self defence of course, ie: someone has to attack you first!
The guy is Tony Martin.  I remember thinking it was crazy at the time but i think one of the reasons he was punished so much was for having an unlicensed gun after being banned from owning one.  The criminals case was utter bullshit and i'm glad it failed.

"Fearon, who had more than 30 criminal convictions, is now trying to sue Martin for damages as a result of being shot.  He has asked for a reported £15,000 for loss of earnings, claiming he can no longer enjoy sex or bear to see shootings on television.  Fearon is himself currently in jail, after being convicted in February of this year on drugs charges and jailed for 18 months. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3009769.stm

Bubbalo wrote:

Once I had to kill someone.
Assuming your not joking what were the circumstances?
RicardoBlanco
The English
+177|7010|Oxford

Bubbalo wrote:

Once I had to kill someone.
Bollox!
JahManRed
wank
+646|7069|IRELAND

I agree with the right to protect ones self and ones home and family yes.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7003

RicardoBlanco wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Once I had to kill someone.
Bollox!
Oh?  Please elaborate?
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7116|Canberra, AUS
If someone's threatening you with a knife or a gun, you have three options:

Option 1. Run the fuck away.

Option 2. If Option 1 isn't available, hand over your wallet.

Option 3. Of course, if you really want to see what heaven looks like...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6934|Connecticut

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

A smart man always keeps retreat as an option. Only mall ninjas and gun-store commandos act like retreat is never acceptable.
.....and Marines. We dont retreat, we like to call it "Tactical relocation". As far as defending one's home, of course I would use deadly force to defend it. I think a gun owner should have intelligence and use their judgement to the best of their abilility but if it is nighttime and it is dark, and someone is in your home against your will then it will be instinct to protect it. Humans are naturally afraid of things we dont know and understand, and if I dont know 'em I will go into defense mode.
Malloy must go
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6991|CH/BR - in UK

Bubbalo wrote:

Konfusion0 wrote:

I'm against the right to bear arms, unless you're in the army, police, or have been in either.
Out of curiousity, why?
Because I feel safer knowing that not just any idiot can obtain a gun. Sure, there may be a black market in some places, but it makes it harder to get...

-konfusion
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6934|Connecticut

Bubbalo wrote:

Ooh, big man on campus, running around making dipshit remarks.  I've actually had to use weapons to defend myself on two seperate occasions.  Once I had to kill someone.
Did you kill the guy on the bicycle wearing the army helmet? Thats my buddy you sick bastard.
Malloy must go
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7116|Canberra, AUS

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Ooh, big man on campus, running around making dipshit remarks.  I've actually had to use weapons to defend myself on two seperate occasions.  Once I had to kill someone.
Did you kill the guy on the bicycle wearing the army helmet? Thats my buddy you sick bastard.
Hmmm... Bubbalo, you wouldn't be related to the Williams or Moran families, would you?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6836|The Gem Saloon

Bubbalo wrote:

Parker wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:


I agree with it, but retreat is a recognised form of defense, and is touted as the first resort by every self defense instructor I've spoken to.  Where retreat isn't feasible (that is, it isn't possible or it makes one significantly more vulnerable) then use of force is perfectly appropriate.
i would probably retreat if i were you also bubs.
especially if you had to defend yourself with a firearm.
Ooh, big man on campus, running around making dipshit remarks.  I've actually had to use weapons to defend myself on two seperate occasions.  Once I had to kill someone.
LOL, please, please, please blow us away with some fairy tales..........
first tell me what kind of weapons were used on each occasion.
second, tell me how/what/when/where/why each instance happened, and why you couldnt use your "RUN AWAY!!!!!" theory that you favor so much.
third, tell me how you killed someone.

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