sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7185|Argentina
I always thought he was a great military leader and politician as well, but seeing a documentary about him in the History Channel, he didn't seem a very good military leader.  During the conquest of Ireland he failed more than once, not to mention all the brutal war crimes.  During the siege of Clonmel? he was fooled by an Irish guy (don't remember the name), losing more than 2000 men.
If I'm right he decided not to accept the Crown and created the Protectorate.
What do you think about this guy, was he a Great Briton Hero or a shitty militar dictator?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6983
Cromwell would be in the Hague at a war crimes tribunal for his atocities today. That man was a ruthless brutal oppressive imperialist evil man whose name is synonomous with cruelty and suffering in my country. May he rot in hell. A Hitler of the middle ages.

Some facts:

It is clear that Cromwell saw the Irish Catholics in general as enemies. During the civil wars, the Parliamentarian side in particular nursed a hatred towards the Catholic Irish, who were long seen as "savages" and inferior by the English. A desire for revenge for the massacres of the 1641 Irish Rebellion against English rule added to the general climate of Protestant hostility. Cromwell's hostility to them was religious as well as political. He was passionately opposed to the Roman Catholic Church, which he saw as denying the primacy of the Bible in favour of papal and clerical authority, and which he blamed for tyranny and persecution of Protestants in Europe. Cromwell's association between Catholicism and persecution were deepened with the Irish Rebellion of 1641. This rebellion was marked by massacres by native Irish Catholics of English and Scottish Protestant settlers in Ireland, which were wildly exaggerated in puritan circles in Britain (from 4,000 killed to 120,000). These factors contributed to Cromwell's harshness in his military campaign in Ireland.

In a letter to the Irish Catholic Bishops at New Ross he wrote, "you are part of the Anti-Christ and before long you must have, all of you, blood to drink." Moreover, the records of many churches such as Kilkenny Cathedral accuse Cromwell's army of having defaced and desecrated the churches, another case of a desecrated church by Cromwell is widely reported in southern Galway in Killeely part of parish of Clarinbridge.

William Petty estimated in his demographic survey of Ireland in the 1650s that the war of 1641–53 had resulted in the death or exile of over 600,000 people, or around one third of Ireland's pre-war population. In the wake of the Cromwellian conquest, the public practice of Catholicism was banned and Catholic priests were executed when captured. In addition, roughly 12,000 Irish people were sold into slavery under the Commonwealth. All Catholic-owned land was confiscated in the Act for the Settlement of Ireland 1652 and given to Scottish and English settlers, the Parliament's financial creditors and Parliamentary soldiers. The remaining Catholic landowners were allocated poorer land in Connacht. Under the Commonwealth, Catholic landownership dropped from 60% of the total to just 8%.

Cromwell is still a figure of hatred in Ireland, his name being associated with massacre, religious persecution, and mass dispossession of the Catholic community there.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-03-15 11:05:12)

TDRE666
Member
+5|6909
he was great in that movie about the pig
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

TDRE666 wrote:

he was great in that movie about the pig
LOL...  You're thinking of James Cromwell...

Oliver Cromwell seems like a slimy bastard to me.  Admittedly, I'm no scholar of British or Irish history, but it would seem that he was just another self-righteous conqueror.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7009|SE London

sergeriver wrote:

What do you think about this guy, was he a Great Briton Hero or a shitty militar dictator?
He was a prick. No one liked Cromwell. That's why we got kings back and he ended up with his head on a spike, or something.
Drakef
Cheeseburger Logicist
+117|6789|Vancouver
Oliver Cromwell established himself during the English Civil War, but the man most responsible for taking Parliament into the war was my ancestor, John Pym, the most leading member of Parliament. A Puritan, it was his reponsibility for ensuring an alliance with the Scots as his final act before dying in 1643. Had he lived, he would have been leader of England instead of Cromwell. Some historians label him as 'King Pym'. Cromwell was a cousin of his, so I suppose I am related to him as well.

Just a little bit to brag about.
link52787
Member
+29|6949
I'm an American and I don't know much about him.

Is he the guy who led a rebellion against protestants after England broke away from the Catholic church?
PureFodder
Member
+225|6713
I think breaking away from a monarchy was a great thing to do, but pretty much everything he did to make that happen and after it happened was entirely reprehensable.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6718|Éire
I have a bias in this topic. Three of my ancestors were locked inside a church that was torched by Cromwell's men and had to escape, they fled and settled in the area that is now my family home. If Cromwell had succeeded in that particular mission I wouldn't be here typing a negative comment about him!
JahManRed
wank
+646|7055|IRELAND

sergeriver wrote:

I always thought he was a great military leader and politician as well, but seeing a documentary about him in the History Channel, he didn't seem a very good military leader.  During the conquest of Ireland he failed more than once, not to mention all the brutal war crimes.  During the siege of Clonmel?
I am going to Clonmel tomoorow for a few days of drink, music and St Paddyness.
I think Poe said it all about him. A monster who makes Saddam look like the fairy godmother.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7199|PNW

sergeriver wrote:

I always thought he was a great military leader and politician as well, but seeing a documentary about him in the History Channel, he didn't seem a very good military leader.  During the conquest of Ireland he failed more than once, not to mention all the brutal war crimes.  During the siege of Clonmel? he was fooled by an Irish guy (don't remember the name), losing more than 2000 men.
If I'm right he decided not to accept the Crown and created the Protectorate.
What do you think about this guy, was he a Great Briton Hero or a shitty militar dictator?
Banned Christmas! lol
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7170|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
He was a cunt of the highest order
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7185|Argentina
He looked like a prick in that documentary.  How come he is in the 10th place in the Greatest Britons List published by BBC?
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6718|Éire

serderiver wrote:

He looked like a prick in that documentary.  How come he is in the 10th place in the Greatest Britons List published by BBC?
That poll is meaningless as it has Bob Geldof and Bono (both Irish) in it. That would be like having Maradona in a 100 Greatest Brazilians poll.

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