Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker
In general, if you don't want very loud arguing then don't raise your voice.  That's worked very well for me when discussing issues that are easy to get passionate about.  If someone is talking loudly, instead of matching their tone (which subconsciously escalates things), I talk a bit quieter which forces them to calm down a bit. 

I've never had a discussion with a religious extremist, so that must have been interesting.  It is pointless to argue with someone who is not interested in a discussion, though.
Meithan
Member
+2|6690
My girlfriend is a Baptist Christian and I'm a Pantheist / Taoist. What I've learned in this relationship is that persons who are religious because they need a sense of security in their lives do not want to discuss anything; it would void the whole purpose of being religious. My girlfriend is like that, and every single time I've tried to discuss about her religious beliefs, we've ended up yelling at each other. She says I "attack her" with my questions. So I've learned to just keep my mouth shut.

There is one piece of advice I can give you if you still want to argue about religion (I've met some very rational religious people, and it's very fruitful to have discussions with them). Ask questions about their religion, as if you were new to it and wanted to learn about it. Don't argue, just make sensitive questions until you reach the point you want to discuss about. It's actually a good practice because us non-fundamentalists assume a lot of things about these religions, but sometimes we don't have the full picture.

Now a story.

Some years ago, one sunday morning the bell rang. I went down and saw three people at the door, patiently waiting. I asked them what they were here for, and they said they were Jehova's Witnesses and that they had a message for me. My immediate thought was to take out the "just in case of emergency" shotgun, but instead I told them to wait just a minute and that I'd be right back with them. I went to the computer and printed a piece explaining what Pantheism is, our beliefs and practices.

I went down and listened what they had to say. They handed me a flier and asked me whether they could return in a few days. I said to them: "You can return with one condition: you'll take these pages with you and read them. They're about my religion. Next time you come, I hope you'll have questions about it." Needless to say, they never came back.

Last edited by Meithan (2007-03-06 09:23:26)

rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6988

Bertster7 wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

=ST6=Phrozenbot wrote:


Free will.
Ah yes, the other common answer.  If God controls the universe, but people have "free will," then what the hell is he controlling?  Essentially, he is not controlling anything if people have free will to do what they want right?
Ah yes, the free will get out clause.

It's a bit like me saying I'm all powerful and control the whole world, but I have to let other people make the decisions for themselves.
Ah the Godless. Poor souls. Tell me what it is about religion that ruffles your feathers and I'll tell you why your wrong. {Exception to Islam because that is not a religion it is a perversion of judaism}
Meithan
Member
+2|6690
Islam is not a religion? Why the heck not? How do you even define religion?

Concerning the "free will" argument you quoted above, you're all making incorrect conclusions. Why does God allow all the awful things that happen to us? Because He wants us make our own choices so He doesn't interfere. Does that mean he has no control over the Universe? No, it doesn't. Because one has the power to do something doesn't mean one should. So what are the conclusions of all this? Simple: we're just His little lab experiment. From a human standpoint, God is cruel. Perhaps in His view of things it all makes sense (we humans can't hope to understand God's perspective).

Last edited by Meithan (2007-03-06 13:20:07)

topal63
. . .
+533|7146
It is difficult to discuss anything involving this (---->) "belief" as a word and as a conception in mind. Also "religious" implies, as a connotation, a "zealous" nature and with this type of irrational emotional behavior it is usually difficult to pin down an entry point for reasonable discussion. Also, being a "zealot" "an extremist" "acting religiously" about your personal opinion (or "belief") is not restricted to to the practitioners of any religion. Anybody can act-out / react when a "belief" is called into question.
Meithan
Member
+2|6690
If religious belief was purely a matter of personal preference (and I think it should be), there would be no point in discussing it, I agree. It's like having a debate on whether I should like ketchup or not. However, the reality is that most religions rest upon a set of actual facts, most of them historic, that can be studied rationally and objectively. Religion is not necessarily synonymous to "blind faith".
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6896

djphetal wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Religion cannot be proven or disproven, and debating it is pointless.
QFT.
period.
Agreed. End all relgion threads!!
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6990

usmarine2007 wrote:

Ah yes, the other common answer.  If God controls the universe, but people have "free will," then what the hell is he controlling?  Essentially, he is not controlling anything if people have free will to do what they want right?
He's supposed to be the creator, not the controller.

Last edited by King_County_Downy (2007-03-06 17:12:01)

usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6795|Columbus, Ohio

Bubbalo wrote:

He's supposed to be the creator, not the controller.
When I was in school, we were told God controls the universe and the God has a plan for us.  Sounds like control to me.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7148|California

Tell them that God doesn't exist, and then attack their credibility and sexual orientation
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7200|PNW

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Ah yes, the other common answer.  If God controls the universe, but people have "free will," then what the hell is he controlling?  Essentially, he is not controlling anything if people have free will to do what they want right?
He's supposed to be the creator, not the controller.

usmarine2007 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

He's supposed to be the creator, not the controller.
When I was in school, we were told God controls the universe and the God has a plan for us.  Sounds like control to me.
Sounds like you haven't tried all 31 flavors.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6795|Columbus, Ohio

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Sounds like you haven't tried all 31 flavors.
erm.......
pebblebash
Banned
+9|6706
shoot first, debatez later.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7200|PNW

usmarine2007 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Sounds like you haven't tried all 31 flavors.
erm.......
In plain English, not all religions believe that God has a plan for everyone.

"Let's see...John Smith. You'll miss the 6:30, spill coffee on your lap at lunch and eat avocados for dinner. And every minute detail is all prearranged to be a grueling test of your faith."

Hah...
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7113|United States of America

usmarine2007 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

He's supposed to be the creator, not the controller.
When I was in school, we were told God controls the universe and the God has a plan for us.  Sounds like control to me.
The plan sounds like Predestination. Quite an old idea that isn't really as much as Arminiansim is because it is closer to the current style.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6990

usmarine2007 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

He's supposed to be the creator, not the controller.
When I was in school, we were told God controls the universe and the God has a plan for us.  Sounds like control to me.
Oh, right, and your teachers are the be all and end all of religious belief, clearly. .
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|7044|do not disturb

usmarine2007 wrote:

=ST6=Phrozenbot wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Ask them why God allows kids to be tortured and murdered for example.  Then, when they say it is the work of the devil, ask then why God cannot overpower the devil.
Free will.
Ah yes, the other common answer.  If God controls the universe, but people have "free will," then what the hell is he controlling?  Essentially, he is not controlling anything if people have free will to do what they want right?
But he judges people after they die for all eternity, so I assume he is in control.
[Ew]Ess
Member
+2|6740
If there is a God and he created the universe then he is outside time
If he is outside time he CANNOT influence the universe as cause and effect require time.
If he can influence the universe then he could not have created it
God is an equation and, as Dawkins stated, Religion is a virus
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6795|Columbus, Ohio

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

He's supposed to be the creator, not the controller.
When I was in school, we were told God controls the universe and the God has a plan for us.  Sounds like control to me.
Oh, right, and your teachers are the be all and end all of religious belief, clearly. .
When you are 8 it is, especially when they are nuns and priests.
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7150|Eastern PA
Just say you worship George Washington.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker

[Ew]Ess wrote:

If there is a God and he created the universe then he is outside time
If he is outside time he CANNOT influence the universe as cause and effect require time.
If he can influence the universe then he could not have created it
God is an equation and, as Dawkins stated, Religion is a virus
Ah, so our human understanding of time has bound the Creator of the universe.  That makes perfect sense.
Fen321
Member
+54|6926|Singularity

Stingray24 wrote:

[Ew]Ess wrote:

If there is a God and he created the universe then he is outside time
If he is outside time he CANNOT influence the universe as cause and effect require time.
If he can influence the universe then he could not have created it
God is an equation and, as Dawkins stated, Religion is a virus
Ah, so our human understanding of time has bound the Creator of the universe.  That makes perfect sense.
The human concept of God binds it just the same.

Concept = restriction on possibilities
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6990

usmarine2007 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:


When I was in school, we were told God controls the universe and the God has a plan for us.  Sounds like control to me.
Oh, right, and your teachers are the be all and end all of religious belief, clearly. .
When you are 8 it is, especially when they are nuns and priests.
So, you admit that you're 8 years old?
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6795|Columbus, Ohio

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:


Oh, right, and your teachers are the be all and end all of religious belief, clearly. .
When you are 8 it is, especially when they are nuns and priests.
So, you admit that you're 8 years old?
No.  Just that a lot of people do not overcome that brainwashing.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6990
So, if you're currently not of a mental capacity to overcome your preconceived notions, why are we having this discussion?

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard