give him a big man hug and pat his head till he calms downParker wrote:
hes like a menstrating woman......usmarine2007 wrote:
Just shut the fuck up for a change.
when he gets like this the only way he can debate is to call people names....my fav from him would definitly be him calling me a terrorist and a cunt.
i love debating with people that have to turn to personal attacks.......oh well, what are you gonna do?
It was my mistake opening this thread because people misunderstood the point. I wanted to relate these episodes with the Right to Bear Arms. It was not my intention to create another flame war. I apologize. Let's discuss that issue. Do you believe the Right to Bear Arms increase the number of shootings that occur in US or not? Simple. Don't start another comparison between countries. Shit happens everywhere.usmarine2007 wrote:
Vilham wrote:
lol... how about come up with something that isnt just crap for once?usmarine2007 wrote:
Just shut the fuck up for a change.Unlike you, I do not care what they get killed by and use it as an excuse. But don't tell me there is no fear in other countries because it does not happen.usmarine2007 wrote:
Does it matter what is used?Vilham wrote:
How do you know because of these nuts jobs your child wont end up getting shot at school? In other well developed countries people have no such fears as these shootings just quite simply dont happen. I think that is his point.
http://www.safeinschool.co.uk/
Why are so many liberals on here against people owning guns? You are liberal remember? If they want to do it, let them.
I think it's a mistake letting anyone to own a gun. Handling a gun is easy, what is not easy is knowing how to use it properly. That's my whole point here, nothing else, and you can disagree, that's why this is a debate. I just don't get the concept of feeling yourself safer with a gun. What is the police for?usmarine2007 wrote:
Why are so many liberals on here against people owning guns? You are liberal remember? If they want to do it, let them.
Why do people need guns?usmarine2007 wrote:
Why are so many liberals on here against people owning guns? You are liberal remember? If they want to do it, let them.
I don’t need one. I live in Australia. We have a perfectly good police force, guns are illegal, everything is rosy.
I think it's a mistake letting anyone who has no training and is unfamiliar with their local gun laws, to have a gun.sergeriver wrote:
I think it's a mistake letting anyone to own a gun.
I'm not sure about you, but the local law enforcement doesn't live right around the corner from me. It takes them anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes to arrive on the scene, and alot can happen in that time.sergeriver wrote:
I just don't get the concept of feeling yourself safer with a gun. What is the police for?
Maybe if someone breaks into your residence over night(like what recently happened to this forum member -http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=64006) You might have a different opinion.BN wrote:
Why do people need guns?
I don’t need one. I live in Australia. We have a perfectly good police force, guns are illegal, everything is rosy.
Last edited by Volatile_Squirrel (2007-02-15 14:15:09)
the concept of feeling yourself with a gun is a noble and just concept that dates back to the 18th century, and i personally feel myself up with a gun every...
anyway, in response to what you really mean, no. i disagree. do you have any idea how long it takes police to respond..so a guy walks in your house with intent to do bodily harm or steal your shit, oh no! hold up, call the cops, and hide under your bed until they arrive. fuck that. i love living in florida knowing i can shoot anyone who intends to do me bodily harm. and not be charged. now i dont own a gun, but almost indefinitely will. am i going to go on a rampage and kill people? well i hope not. you should too. and most people who own LICENSED guns are very responsible people. my grandfather could hold off a swat team for months. i respect that man more than myself. it might make it easier for lunatics to murder, but thats why they are lunatics, they'll do it any way they can. and in any case, if we were to revoke the right to bear arms, the only people it would affect are the law abiding citizens who go turkey hunting and range shooting, not the people with illegal and unlicensed firearms. rounding up every gun in america, yea right. your debate, and yes i understand its a debate, is futile. we're americans, and we love our guns. we dont care about all the other shit. we will deal with it, not bitch about it.
anyway, in response to what you really mean, no. i disagree. do you have any idea how long it takes police to respond..so a guy walks in your house with intent to do bodily harm or steal your shit, oh no! hold up, call the cops, and hide under your bed until they arrive. fuck that. i love living in florida knowing i can shoot anyone who intends to do me bodily harm. and not be charged. now i dont own a gun, but almost indefinitely will. am i going to go on a rampage and kill people? well i hope not. you should too. and most people who own LICENSED guns are very responsible people. my grandfather could hold off a swat team for months. i respect that man more than myself. it might make it easier for lunatics to murder, but thats why they are lunatics, they'll do it any way they can. and in any case, if we were to revoke the right to bear arms, the only people it would affect are the law abiding citizens who go turkey hunting and range shooting, not the people with illegal and unlicensed firearms. rounding up every gun in america, yea right. your debate, and yes i understand its a debate, is futile. we're americans, and we love our guns. we dont care about all the other shit. we will deal with it, not bitch about it.
So you're saying that had that guy had a gun, he could have heard them, run downstairs and shot the thieving fuckers in the head?Volatile_Squirrel wrote:
I think it's a mistake letting anyone who has no training and is unfamiliar with their local gun laws, to have a gun.sergeriver wrote:
I think it's a mistake letting anyone to own a gun.I'm not sure about you, but the local law enforcement doesn't live right around the corner from me. It takes them anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes to arrive on the scene, and alot can happen in that time.sergeriver wrote:
I just don't get the concept of feeling yourself safer with a gun. What is the police for?Maybe if someone breaks into your residence over night(like what recently happened to this forum member -http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=64006) You might have a different opinion.BN wrote:
Why do people need guns?
I don’t need one. I live in Australia. We have a perfectly good police force, guns are illegal, everything is rosy.
also, i think that punishment for using a gun against somebody for anything other than personal defense, should be greatly increased. it would help, but not eliminate the problem. aggravated assualt with a firearm? min 30 years prison. found guilty of murder as the aggressor? lined up against a wall and shot. or put on a practice battleground and used for target practice, like a gladiator kinda thing. except they dont get guns this time around. or give them a gun and airdrop them into afghanistan, iraq, somalia, or something similar. anyway, i dont see a prevelent uproar about guns here, at the worst it'd be 50/50. if it bothers people that much, they can always go somewhere else. but i think we're content here. gee we sure are risk takers living in the US, arent we?
not necessarily, but im sure the thief would have thought twice about stealing with a barrel stabbing his temple. it might even scare him to not do something like that again, thus benefiting society.ghettoperson wrote:
So you're saying that had that guy had a gun, he could have heard them, run downstairs and shot the thieving fuckers in the head?
Chuy said efficiency. I agree.sergeriver wrote:
I think it's a mistake letting anyone to own a gun. Handling a gun is easy, what is not easy is knowing how to use it properly. That's my whole point here, nothing else, and you can disagree, that's why this is a debate. I just don't get the concept of feeling yourself safer with a gun. What is the police for?usmarine2007 wrote:
Why are so many liberals on here against people owning guns? You are liberal remember? If they want to do it, let them.
On a scale of how easy it is to not, a gun is pretty high.
However, removing the gun doesn't remove the killing, unless you argue it is a deterrent.
I live in Texas. A concealed gun state. That means that EVERYONE can have a gun on them at all times (unless they are in certain places). If I was a criminal or a crazy, yes I'd have easier access to a gun...but on the other hand is my target likely to return fire?
It's the Verbal Kint defense from The Usual Suspects - "If you are going to shoot the devil, you better not miss..."
Ps. I don't like guns. But I know that if someone thinks I'm carrying, it's just as effective (like stuffing your pants before a date).
The problem being, if the criminal knows the house owner is likely to be armed the criminal will respond in the logical way, by getting a gun to defend himself against the homeowner.mcjagdflieger wrote:
not necessarily, but im sure the thief would have thought twice about stealing with a barrel stabbing his temple. it might even scare him to not do something like that again, thus benefiting society.ghettoperson wrote:
So you're saying that had that guy had a gun, he could have heard them, run downstairs and shot the thieving fuckers in the head?
Result = higher homicide rate.
It is hard to say "Yes, this is right" or "No, that is wrong" without looking at other places where you have potential examples. Few major changes are made in business without research about other places that made the same change and what the outcome was.sergeriver wrote:
Do you believe the Right to Bear Arms increase the number of shootings that occur in US or not? Simple. Don't start another comparison between countries. Shit happens everywhere.
I don't see any problem in comparisons with other countries, as long as it is kept factual and statistical.
So the easiest example we have is this:
In 1988-1993 South Africa had approximately 20,000 gun deaths per year. In 1993 they restructured their gun control laws to outlaw over 90% of the guns that had been legal. Since that time, gun deaths have risen to over 30,000 per year. South Africa has approximately 1/6th of the United States population, and about twice the annual firearm related murders. South Africa has the highest number of murders by firearm in the world (0.720 per 1,000 people, rounded to nearest thousandth) while the US is #8 on the list (0.028 per 1,000 people, rounded to the nearest thousandth). From over .7 to well below .1 is a significant difference...
Other countries that have more firearm murders per capita (And you can research their gun control laws yourself) include (in order):
Columbia
Thailand
Zimbabwe
Mexico
Belarus
Costa Rica
For the record, I do not nor have ever owned a gun.
I own lots of guns, as do almost all of my friends. We've never shot anyone on purpose.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
False. Burglars do not go looking for challenges. They want control of the situation, not a fair fight. They are more likely to go next door to the 80 year old woman's house, or come back tomorrow while you are at work. The average criminal doesn't say "Gee, I want THAT particular house, NO MATTER WHAT!" and go about planning the shootout at the OK Corral. The average criminal says "Gee I want some easy cash, let's make this as easy as possible."PureFodder wrote:
The problem being, if the criminal knows the house owner is likely to be armed the criminal will respond in the logical way, by getting a gun to defend himself against the homeowner.
Result = higher homicide rate.
Erm, you misinterpreted my point. My point is that if criminals know that lots of people have guns they they'll carry a gun with them just in case they'll need it because the house owner happens to be in and armed.HITNRUNXX wrote:
False. Burglars do not go looking for challenges. They want control of the situation, not a fair fight. They are more likely to go next door to the 80 year old woman's house, or come back tomorrow while you are at work. The average criminal doesn't say "Gee, I want THAT particular house, NO MATTER WHAT!" and go about planning the shootout at the OK Corral. The average criminal says "Gee I want some easy cash, let's make this as easy as possible."PureFodder wrote:
The problem being, if the criminal knows the house owner is likely to be armed the criminal will respond in the logical way, by getting a gun to defend himself against the homeowner.
Result = higher homicide rate.
Remember Criminals are very similar to you and me. If you feel the need to arm yourself against a criminal then you can be damned sure the criminals will feel the need to arm themselves against you.
similar in that we are human and in nature, yes, but that and that alone. i wont take anothers belongings, nor break into a home, and their entire mentality of being ok with it. that sets me a world apart from a criminal. they are fucked up in the head, and i am, well, less fucked up in the head. much less.
South Africa doesn't manufacture it's own guns.HITNRUNXX wrote:
In 1988-1993 South Africa had approximately 20,000 gun deaths per year. In 1993 they restructured their gun control laws to outlaw over 90% of the guns that had been legal. Since that time, gun deaths have risen to over 30,000 per year. South Africa has approximately 1/6th of the United States population, and about twice the annual firearm related murders. South Africa has the highest number of murders by firearm in the world (0.720 per 1,000 people, rounded to nearest thousandth) while the US is #8 on the list (0.028 per 1,000 people, rounded to the nearest thousandth). From over .7 to well below .1 is a significant difference...
Plus South Africa went through a massive political and social change through that time period. The end of Apartheid etc. which makes the pre and post 1993 comparison a little futile.Bubbalo wrote:
South Africa doesn't manufacture it's own guns.HITNRUNXX wrote:
In 1988-1993 South Africa had approximately 20,000 gun deaths per year. In 1993 they restructured their gun control laws to outlaw over 90% of the guns that had been legal. Since that time, gun deaths have risen to over 30,000 per year. South Africa has approximately 1/6th of the United States population, and about twice the annual firearm related murders. South Africa has the highest number of murders by firearm in the world (0.720 per 1,000 people, rounded to nearest thousandth) while the US is #8 on the list (0.028 per 1,000 people, rounded to the nearest thousandth). From over .7 to well below .1 is a significant difference...
i was taking a piss while you posted, rendering your excuses futile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheidmcjagdflieger wrote:
i was taking a piss while you posted, rendering your excuses futile.
Read. Learn. Then comment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAG-7Bubbalo wrote:
South Africa doesn't manufacture it's own guns.HITNRUNXX wrote:
In 1988-1993 South Africa had approximately 20,000 gun deaths per year. In 1993 they restructured their gun control laws to outlaw over 90% of the guns that had been legal. Since that time, gun deaths have risen to over 30,000 per year. South Africa has approximately 1/6th of the United States population, and about twice the annual firearm related murders. South Africa has the highest number of murders by firearm in the world (0.720 per 1,000 people, rounded to nearest thousandth) while the US is #8 on the list (0.028 per 1,000 people, rounded to the nearest thousandth). From over .7 to well below .1 is a significant difference...
so your saying because of what happened then, we cant compare what happened afterwards? even after it was abolished? his point was they reformed their gun laws, and gun crimes rose. and you say its not a valid argument because of a gov. reformation? how the hell does that work. oh and thanks for pointing me in the right direction. i live under a rock. thank god for wiki.
Last edited by mcjagdflieger (2007-02-15 16:42:42)
if guns kill people, then pencils make mistakes..... besides, more people are killed in vehicle accidents each year then guns, should we ban cars?