IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7169|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
Germany has ordered the arrest of 13 suspected CIA agents over the alleged kidnapping of one of its citizens.  Munich prosecutors confirmed that the warrants were linked to the case of Khaled al-Masri, a German national of Lebanese descent.

Mr Masri says he was seized in Macedonia, flown to a secret prison in Afghanistan and mistreated there.
He says he was released in Albania five months later when the Americans realised they had the wrong man.

Mr Masri says his case is an example of the US policy of "extraordinary rendition" - a practice whereby the US government flies foreign terror suspects to third countries without judicial process for interrogation or detention. Prosecutors in Munich said in a statement that the city's court had issued the warrants on suspicion of abduction and grievous bodily harm.

The information on which the warrants were based came from Mr Masri's lawyers and a journalist and officials in Spain, where the flight carrying Mr Masri is thought to have originated.


The names and nationalities concerned were not released but prosecutors said the names identified were thought to be the code names of CIA agents.

"The investigation will now focus on learning the actual names of the suspects," they said.

Speaking at a news conference, Mr Masri's lawyer, Manfred Gnjidic, said the arrest warrants were "a very important step in the rehabilitation of Masri".

"It shows us that we were right in putting our trust in the German authorities and the German prosecutors," he said.

German arrest warrants are not valid in the US but if the suspects were to travel to the European Union they could be arrested.

Italian case

Mr Masri says he was abducted by US agents in the Macedonian capital, Skopje, on 31 December 2003.

He is seeking to sue the US government over his detention, but in May a judge dismissed a lawsuit he filed against the CIA, citing national security considerations.

The US government is not assisting the German authorities with the case.

Meanwhile in the Italian city of Milan, court hearings to decide whether to indict 25 alleged CIA agents and several Italians accused of kidnapping a Muslim cleric in 2003 are under way.

Osama Mustafa Hassan, or Abu Omar, says he was abducted from the streets of Milan and then tortured in Egypt.

If the case proceeds to trial, it would be the first criminal prosecution over America's rendition policy.

The practice has drawn widespread criticism from human rights groups, legal experts and the international community.

But last week a European Parliament committee approved a report saying EU states knew about secret CIA flights over Europe, the abduction of terror suspects by US agents and the existence of clandestine detention camps.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6316369.stm
herrr_smity
Member
+156|7055|space command ur anus

usmarine2007 wrote:

rofl..... I dare them to try.

Fail.
why not
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6920|Connecticut
good luck finding them. If we dont tell you who they are what are Germany and Italy going to do? Tell?
Malloy must go
joker8baller
Member
+68|7094
Screw that guy. I can beat myself, and claim the US took me away too.

The US protects its agents... usually, if there in the US. I don't expect any action.
Recoil555
A God Amongst Men
+26|6879|UK
I dont like the fact they do it but .. if they dont know their real names and they dont come back to the EU then they're pretty safe.

I dont know though is breaking another countries laws really fair though i mean if another Agency for another country abducted someone on US soil and they 're a citizen you guys would go mental if they weren't a terrorist.

Last edited by Recoil555 (2007-02-01 07:22:58)

usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6794|Columbus, Ohio

Recoil555 wrote:

I dont like the fact they do it but .. if they dont know their real names and they dont come back to the EU then they're pretty safe.

I dont know though is breaking another countries laws really fair though i mean if another Agency for another country abducted someone on US soil and they 're a citizen you guys would go mental if they weren't a terrorist.
I have a feeling "rules" and intelligence agencies don't mix too well.  I know the CIA has lawyers who review this stuff, and I would love to see what their decisions were.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7076

usmarine2007 wrote:

Recoil555 wrote:

I dont like the fact they do it but .. if they dont know their real names and they dont come back to the EU then they're pretty safe.

I dont know though is breaking another countries laws really fair though i mean if another Agency for another country abducted someone on US soil and they 're a citizen you guys would go mental if they weren't a terrorist.
I have a feeling "rules" and intelligence agencies don't mix too well.  I know the CIA has lawyers who review this stuff, and I would love to see what their decisions were.
Too true. They can't really arrest the CIA guys, as they're acting under orders. That said, someone should pay for this, as the US cannot go around kidnapping people at it's own discretion.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7193|UK
America has a real extremist problem... to them anyone who is Muslim is an extremist, the number of cases like this ive seen is just retarded. If you cant catch the right people, dont try.
Recoil555
A God Amongst Men
+26|6879|UK

usmarine2007 wrote:

Recoil555 wrote:

I don't like the fact they do it but .. if they don't know their real names and they don't come back to the EU then they're pretty safe.

I don't know though is breaking another countries laws really fair though i mean if another Agency for another country abducted someone on US soil and they 're a citizen you guys would go mental if they weren't a terrorist.
I have a feeling "rules" and intelligence agencies don't mix too well.  I know the CIA has lawyers who review this stuff, and I would love to see what their decisions were.
I know, what i was saying is how you would feel if it happen in your own country to an innocent person i mean i don't care if they're 100% sure its a terrorist but abducting someone for as long as that then just dropping them off in random country i be like oops sorry for the inconvenience lol is a bit joke don't you think ?

All I'm saying is if the German government agency abducted you because they though you where a terrorist i certainly wouldn't be pleased. So the victim of this is probably just grabbing at straws to make himself feel better by the arrest warrents trying to get his 5 months back.

Im all for arresting people that want to blow up planes but breaking national law to arrest the wrong guy is just bad use of resource i think CIA just make America look bad i mean for intelligence agency do they actually know whats going on with terrorism especially about all the intelligence over iraq pre-war i mean people have to admit that half the bollox they said about Iraq's weapons capabilities turned out a total lie?

Last edited by Recoil555 (2007-02-01 07:47:08)

usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6794|Columbus, Ohio

Vilham wrote:

America has a real extremist problem... to them anyone who is Muslim is an extremist, the number of cases like this ive seen is just retarded. If you cant catch the right people, dont try.
I assume you will concede intelligence gathering is not a perfect science...... for any country right?
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7143

Vilham wrote:

America has a real extremist problem... to them anyone who is Muslim is an extremist, the number of cases like this ive seen is just retarded. If you cant catch the right people, dont try.
I thought there was a Senator in the US that's a muslim... God get your facts right.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7193|UK
wow.... one Muslim in an important role. Damn America is progressing fast.

As to usmarine, no ofc not but the number of times your intelligence has been wrong is incredible.
paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|7167
Maybe a little more cooperation between intelligence agencies is needed.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry just read the back.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6794|Columbus, Ohio

Vilham wrote:

As to usmarine, no ofc not but the number of times your intelligence has been wrong is incredible.
Especially 9/11 and other things I agree.  But, I do not know how many successes they have had either.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7193|UK
Well generally the successes are shown to the world why the failures are hidden away, however most of the time  they get leaked out. So I think that most successes or failures are published. So work out how many successes you see in the news and failures. Compare fiqures and how well are you doing?
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7184|Argentina

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

America has a real extremist problem... to them anyone who is Muslim is an extremist, the number of cases like this ive seen is just retarded. If you cant catch the right people, dont try.
I thought there was a Senator in the US that's a muslim... God get your facts right.
The same excuse the anti-Semites use when they tell "hey I know someone Jew".
Recoil555
A God Amongst Men
+26|6879|UK

paranoid101 wrote:

Maybe a little more cooperation between intelligence agencies is needed.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry just read the back.
Crazy thought isn't it working together what i novel idea they might have found out from the german authorities before that he wasn't terrorist or at least ask them to investigate him first.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6794|Columbus, Ohio

Vilham wrote:

Well generally the successes are shown to the world why the failures are hidden away, however most of the time  they get leaked out. So I think that most successes or failures are published. So work out how many successes you see in the news and failures. Compare fiqures and how well are you doing?
You think we see everything?  Come on dude.
paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|7167
I can see what the problem is, its the word Intelligance being used.
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7219

ghettoperson wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Recoil555 wrote:

I dont like the fact they do it but .. if they dont know their real names and they dont come back to the EU then they're pretty safe.

I dont know though is breaking another countries laws really fair though i mean if another Agency for another country abducted someone on US soil and they 're a citizen you guys would go mental if they weren't a terrorist.
I have a feeling "rules" and intelligence agencies don't mix too well.  I know the CIA has lawyers who review this stuff, and I would love to see what their decisions were.
Too true. They can't really arrest the CIA guys, as they're acting under orders. That said, someone should pay for this, as the US cannot go around kidnapping people at it's own discretion.
I believe the US has an extradition treaty with Germany and would be obliged to send the officers across, to stand trial.  "Acting under orders" is no excuse.  The Nuremburg war trials concluded this and I doubt it would stand up in any civilian court, either.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6794|Columbus, Ohio

aardfrith wrote:

The Nuremburg war trials concluded this and I doubt it would stand up in any civilian court, either.
Kind of different circumstances.
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7219

usmarine2007 wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

The Nuremburg war trials concluded this and I doubt it would stand up in any civilian court, either.
Kind of different circumstances.
Yes, there's unlawfully kidnapping and murdering people and there's unlawfully kidnapping and torturing people.  Kind of different but kind of the same.

I have seen certain people on these forums being very quick to condemn a whole religion because of a few extreme acts and for not condemning them.  I have yet to see any Americans condemn these incidents.
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7268|Cologne, Germany

usmarine2007 wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

The Nuremburg war trials concluded this and I doubt it would stand up in any civilian court, either.
Kind of different circumstances.
funny you should say that, considering most people acknowledge the War on terror is a global one, and some republican Americans here even argue that the threat islamic extremists pose is comparable to Nazi germany...

Anyway, I saw a piece about these CIA operatives last night on german TV, and they were actually able to track three of them down in the US. They sent a TV crew over and tried to get a comment.
I have never seen white guys run so fast....

If the german government had any guts, they'd demand legal action by US authorities or at least eviction but I doubt that's going to happen.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6794|Columbus, Ohio

B.Schuss wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

The Nuremburg war trials concluded this and I doubt it would stand up in any civilian court, either.
Kind of different circumstances.
funny you should say that, considering most people acknowledge the War on terror is a global one, and some republican Americans here even argue that the threat islamic extremists pose is comparable to Nazi germany...
Difference between this case, which was one person, and the Nuremberg Trial, which was millions of people who were exterminated, is a little different.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7184|Argentina

usmarine2007 wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:


Kind of different circumstances.
funny you should say that, considering most people acknowledge the War on terror is a global one, and some republican Americans here even argue that the threat islamic extremists pose is comparable to Nazi germany...
Difference between this case, which was one person, and the Nuremberg Trial, which was millions of people who were exterminated, is a little different.
I think he meant that many people argue that the Islamic extremists threat is comparable to Nazi Germany.

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