spray_and_pray
Member
+52|6801|Perth. Western Australia
If you intend or replying to this read it all the beggining few arent my beleifs but probably explain others beleifs. Unless ive mis interpereted something. Spray for longest non spam post in BF2s FTW.... Caution broken wall of text.

For someone to beleive a country will last for ever and never get defeated or de throned is funny. Arguing with most of this people is just stupid we've seen from the video's of people asking American's question about outside their country... They pretty much failed their geography is fail even kids in America think Australia is the size of Texas. Not to forget they know nothing about geography. As each year passes the dumber they get. There are lots of countries in the world which can be self sufficient Australia would be one. 30% of the worlds uranium oil and food need more?

China would not join America if they were ever to join a power to form a coalition but would more likely join Russia. Take note that China and Russia were two countries who said no to stopping the flow of their supplies to Iran and didn't side with the US. Germany before they collapsed in 1945 were the strongest country in the world most technologically advanced and were greatly cocky like the US is now. Look where it brought them. 10 years from when they ignored sanctions against porducing weapons or creating a military they got defeated. The Romans were also cocky thinking they would never get defeated. They may have not had Nukes but then again I guess everyone who says nuclear weapons hasn't heard of the anti missle defence systems that some countries have?

The old man in catch 22 is where I think the thread poster got his idea from. He did say something about great civilizations always finding a down fall as well as some other things. But maybe people should look at the US military now? The US generals are even saying that the US military is not made to withstand long wars. Iraq is counted as a long war its een going for what? 3 almost 4 years. Your military is stretched to its limits in 3 years you havent even been able to secure one road from the airport to Baghdad you lost Vietnam the only war you have won since WW2 would be the Gulf war which was pretty much an Aerial and Special Forces teams war. Such a war cannot be fought against another super power. In Iraq you are having problems does anyone know how small Iraq is? And how big its military power is? You guys are having problems with a bunch of AK-47 wielding teenagers. Iraq has (a small low trained military hardly any tanks or aircraft. Compare it to Russia or something bigger. For the US to be able to succesfully defeat another country in a war currently it is not possible.

The same could be said probably the other way round which puts the world into a stalemate. However I cannot count the amount of times I am hearing on the news that the US needs more troops and that they are stretched to capacity. 2 of your 12 or so Aircraft carrier divisions are deployed to try steer off Iran a country much stronger then Iraq. Right now you cant face a war on another front or you will have to pull troops.

This leaves the mailand pretty much weakend while it still has defences. If the mainland was attacked much more troops would have to be shifted back you would leave another warzone and heavy casualties would be inflicted in the hastened withdrawal. If somehow the US military was defeated this would leave 270 million people which probably 1/4 or 1/2 have guns. This would then turn into an Iraq war. You cant shoot down aircraft with a .22 hunting rifle even a .333 hunting rifle or a .50 cal. Ther would be bombings large loss of civilian life.

This is one way of the downfall of the US. Not very likely at all such a thing would include large casualties on both sides and then you have to even introduce allies and other wars that would start up.

Having 1 thousand nukes compared to 1 makes no difference all you need is a well placed one or two to destroy or put a country into termoil. During the events that lead up to 9/11 one of the stolen aircraft heading for the twin towers passed over a Trojan Nuclear Power Plant. If this was hit properly (Trojan Nuclear Power Plants are created of Re Enforced Steel and Concrete much like the pentagon which wasnt very succesful) it could have wiped out half your population or over 1/4 more would die of later side effects. Imagine some sort of attempt on a Nuclear Plant with a bomb. While the US has the most bombs it also has around 70 or more powerplants even 5-6 would be enough it might be the most capably destructive country as well as the most capably vulnerable country in the case of inside people someone would only have to get a few miles away with a nuke to be able to destroy a powerplant with a nuke. Then again smuggling a nuke into a country would be hard.

So you can go to other ways to destroy a plant there are much more weapons out there capable of inflicting big enough damage with little or no warning. This could put the country into a civil war there would be some retalliation agaisnt some other country which had nothing to do with it killing everyone. What I love about the theory of flying an aircraft into a nuclear powerplant to destroy it. The same happend to the Pentagon nuclear powerplants are made of the same materials add some lead in when you get closer to the core. If an aircraft could penetrate the Pentagon so much why not the powerplant? Anyone who argue's this point contradicts themselves.

This is me arguing for other people's oppinions and the possibilities. My oppinion....

There will be a collapse hopefully not big and without casualties maybe one day people will come to the realization that as well as being the biggest power you then take along the lead of being the most hated power. Call me a pussy for this thinking but if I were to run a country id fly it under the radar while still having some sort of smaller military force and having a good legal force. And would put my self under an act of neutrality. Some people such as Bush dont make decisions for the people but just make decisions for the power which in the end corrupts them. Humans seek power its a part of our nature we like the feeling of being untouchable or on the top. This can sometimes blind us from reality this is probably the way hackers think.

Look at me im the best cause no one can kill me. In reality he is probably just some computer nerd who needs a life and who in the end can be defeated. Particularly speed hackers can be taken in this oppinion they think no one can defeat them until someone bigger and better then them gets them. There is such a cycle in the world no one will ever be the biggest power forever its impossible someone will always surpass them and be the better. I have studied aviation history even though that shares pretty much no relativity to the topic logic comes from this. Some companies think they are the biggest and the best until another one comes and blows them out of the water. Same works with countries it just takes longer periods of time.

History will repeat itself for as long humans stay in the shadow of ignorance and are run and beleive a government which betrays its employee's (you the citizens). Dont think because you're the US you are undefeatable like posted before for a country to collapse it doesn't need to be involved in a war against another country. All it takes is a war with itself. If no one has learnt anything from the last 6000 years of human existance you will naturally deny this. Egyptians, Romans, Greeks etc. Would tell you this but I guess you will learn from your own mistakes.

No im not an American hater but it must be a coincidence that the most Ignorance comes out of most of the people that live there. I know not all Americans are ignorant I can understand some of your beleifs and views I do bother to read them dont worry about that I will not be a hypocrit. I normally fight for both sides it just depends. Normally I will fight for the side which has a better argument however and shows a lower amount of ignorance in their posts. I think the person calling everyones terrorists really put me off for fighting for the US. If you got this far congradulations pm me and some karma might slip out of my pocket. Thanks.

Last edited by spray_and_pray (2007-01-10 06:45:59)

The Bartenders Son
Member
+42|7003|online
Great post but...Terrorist #7

Dont get @ss hurt man.. just having fun lol you people really take everything so serious

I think you all need a Drink .. damn.. im going to give you a +1  but your still Terrorist #7 lol.
Towelly
It's A State Of Mind
+399|6901|Your attic

The Bartenders Son wrote:

Well, I have spent 4 years in a fox hole for you to say what you just said to me.. O and your stupid plan with a nuke would not work.. LOL .. You have no idea the power we hold you Terrorist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #4
Maybe instead of sitting in that fox hole you should of learnt the meaning of the word "terrorist", you appear to me yet another ignorant who believes that his country will be the most dominant world power for the rest of eternity.

Oddly enough it doesn't work like that, as you have cited the Romans once ruled the majority of the planet and so obviously had the largest stake in trade and the economy. But what happened to them? Destroyed by religion.

Next example; my own fair country, the United Kingdom, for decades we controlled more land (trade/resources) then anyone else, our navy ruled the seas and in a time where exploration was key we became the most dominant nation. Once all the edges of the maps were filled in we became gradually less important, the colonies that we once had control over were granted independence (your nation being one of them albeit only after a conflict) so the resources and trade that we once lorded over where passed on and our "rule" subsided.

Then along comes WWII and the age where military strength was the presiding factor about who would be the most dominant nation (the main competitor being Germany [and Russia later on] of course). Still to this day the U.S has the largest armed force in the world and as such still remains dominant. This in turn has allowed you to develop a very strong economy that many other countries benefit from.

However the world is changing, military strength (while still important) is being over taken by economic strength and while America may still have it's stock market and resources, more and more manufacturing is being moved to Asian countries (primarily China). This is due to different laws and regulations that allow large corporations to pay workers less to produce larger quantities of product. Maybe you will retain control of your stock markets and it is very unlikely that the US will ever become a minor player in the world stage (such as the UK still has a large influence) but it will not remain the most dominant country forever, that I can promise you.
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7151|Cologne, Germany

All Empires fall eventually and are destroyed. But the US is not an Empire in the classical sense. Thus, they cannot fall, i.e. be destroyed.

Empires of the past were conquering empires, who tried to expand their territory with military means. Back then, land meant power.
The US does none of that. Sure, they have huge economic and cultural influence worldwide, and they sometimes invade small, unimportant middle eastern countries to "spread freedom and democracy",
but the world still ain't what it used to be 1,000 years ago.
Today, it's all about economic power and resources, and in that regard, the US depends just as much on the other nations on the planet as the other way round.
The US will one day be surpassed by another nation economically, but that won't mean it will implode. It's economics. People will simply carry on. No big deal.

And even if someone here could come up with a likely scenario under which the US as we know it today would "fall", i.e. seize to exist, what would be the outcome ? Would no one there eat any more ? or buy stuff ? Produce stuff ? Of course they would. Wherever there are people, goods will be produced and consumed, that's just natural.

Empires fell, and the world carried on.

The World > US
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7151|Cologne, Germany

The Bartenders Son wrote:

Great post but...Terrorist #7

Dont get @ss hurt man.. just having fun lol you people really take everything so serious

I think you all need a Drink .. damn.. im going to give you a +1  but your still Terrorist #7 lol.
funny you should say that...."Debate & Serious Talk", remember ?
Steel
on_Target
+65|6627|Sarasota Fl
ATCHUNG!

lots of post here and the powers that be are LOL, if I may entertain, may I have your name please???

Rome did not fall,it is alive & well within the Civil Law of these States (US)
America has fallen, this was in 1933 when it declared bankrupcy.(good ole FDR)
the real story here is NOTHING has changed since the beginning, (there is no new thing under the sun)
in the beginning the was the Hammurabi code (LAW) this has changed in appearance only due to ignorance of the masses, it now has the appearance of UCC (Uniform Commercial Code).
So when China,Russia,EU, & US unite it is not new, or something fallen, it is primae facia U.C.C.

Mock this you may, or learn it and be enlightened with a glimmer of hope, but beware, ignorance is bliss
*=]AD[=*Pro_NL
Member
+77|6939|The Netherlands

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
the whole europian union is behind USA, the dutch army is one of the best armies in the world ( Not the biggest )

well trained people, if USA gets hard, holland wil send more troops
TigerXtrm
Death by Indecency
+51|6678|Netherlands

*=]AD[=*Pro_NL wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
the whole europian union is behind USA, the dutch army is one of the best armies in the world ( Not the biggest )

well trained people, if USA gets hard, holland wil send more troops
Dude... our Army would have their asses kicked by the British or even the French, don't kid yourself. The only thing we use our army for is peace missions AKA keeping order after the real battle. Which is just fine as it is.

As for Catbox, you need to get your so called facts straight. The world would have a financial struggle if the US was gone, but nothing we all can't handle.

Tiger
Zodiaccup
Member
+42|6856

d3v1ldr1v3r13 wrote:

We wont fall, just stagger, and get right back on track.  We always have and always will.
Like the old saying goes: "Pride goeth before a fall".

Last edited by Zodiaccup (2007-01-10 07:34:07)

Soldier-Of-Wasteland
Mephistopheles
+40|6966|Land of the Very Cold
When China rises. It's the next superpower. Give it max 50 years.

Last edited by Soldier-Of-Wasteland (2007-01-10 07:33:38)

*=]AD[=*Pro_NL
Member
+77|6939|The Netherlands

TigerXtrm wrote:

*=]AD[=*Pro_NL wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
the whole europian union is behind USA, the dutch army is one of the best armies in the world ( Not the biggest )

well trained people, if USA gets hard, holland wil send more troops
Dude... our Army would have their asses kicked by the British or even the French, don't kid yourself. The only thing we use our army for is peace missions AKA keeping order after the real battle. Which is just fine as it is.

As for Catbox, you need to get your so called facts straight. The world would have a financial struggle if the US was gone, but nothing we all can't handle.

Tiger
Holland an USA together ???  NO WAY
Steel
on_Target
+65|6627|Sarasota Fl

Towelly wrote:

The Bartenders Son wrote:

Well, I have spent 4 years in a fox hole for you to say what you just said to me.. O and your stupid plan with a nuke would not work.. LOL .. You have no idea the power we hold you Terrorist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #4
Maybe instead of sitting in that fox hole you should of learnt the meaning of the word "terrorist", you appear to me yet another ignorant who believes that his country will be the most dominant world power for the rest of eternity.

Oddly enough it doesn't work like that, as you have cited the Romans once ruled the majority of the planet and so obviously had the largest stake in trade and the economy. But what happened to them? Destroyed by religion.

Next example; my own fair country, the United Kingdom, for decades we controlled more land (trade/resources) then anyone else, our navy ruled the seas and in a time where exploration was key we became the most dominant nation. Once all the edges of the maps were filled in we became gradually less important, the colonies that we once had control over were granted independence (your nation being one of them albeit only after a conflict) so the resources and trade that we once lorded over where passed on and our "rule" subsided.

Then along comes WWII and the age where military strength was the presiding factor about who would be the most dominant nation (the main competitor being Germany [and Russia later on] of course). Still to this day the U.S has the largest armed force in the world and as such still remains dominant. This in turn has allowed you to develop a very strong economy that many other countries benefit from.

However the world is changing, military strength (while still important) is being over taken by economic strength and while America may still have it's stock market and resources, more and more manufacturing is being moved to Asian countries (primarily China). This is due to different laws and regulations that allow large corporations to pay workers less to produce larger quantities of product. Maybe you will retain control of your stock markets and it is very unlikely that the US will ever become a minor player in the world stage (such as the UK still has a large influence) but it will not remain the most dominant country forever, that I can promise you.
Ignorance is bliss, for once the truth is discovered, IT WILL SURELY PAIN YOU
venom6
Since day One.
+247|6868|Hungary
The USA was lucky the whole time during his young history.Making big business and money from WW1 and WW2 so and nothing takes forever.The Roman empire was fallen as well....
USA shouldnt think that he is the world leader...but he is at the moment....Dont forget China,India,Russia,Middle East....they are comming and will replace USA like UK said bye to the #1 position after WW2...
ELITE-UK
Scratching my back
+170|6784|SHEFFIELD, ENGLAND
yes the USA will fail, not because of its enemies, but because of itself.

I was watching a documentory a while back about the american economy and such, and it said that the consumer debt its huge, but not big enough to effect the economy...YET! and same with the finances of the american government financial defecit, its big, but in a matter of a couple of decades it will eat away on the americaneconomy, and will, yes WILL fail within the next 50 years.

so sorry to burst your bubble, but the american economy WILL! fail thus leading to the fall of the united states of america.
Steel
on_Target
+65|6627|Sarasota Fl

venom6 wrote:

The USA was lucky the whole time during his young history.Making big business and money from WW1 and WW2 so and nothing takes forever.The Roman empire was fallen as well....
USA shouldnt think that he is the world leader...but he is at the moment....Dont forget China,India,Russia,Middle East....they are comming and will replace USA like UK said bye to the #1 position after WW2...
LUCK HAS NO PART, America sided with Israel (gods chosen people) Israel scientist gave us (America) fat man and little boy.
End of story - those who are not with us are against us
112505
Member
+5|6630
America will fall like the other powers before it maybe not by war this time. Mark my word on it and when in a few hundred years it does you'll see I'm right or maybe in a few years. I will always support  support China to be the next super power.
The Bartenders Son
Member
+42|7003|online

Towelly wrote:

The Bartenders Son wrote:

Well, I have spent 4 years in a fox hole for you to say what you just said to me.. O and your stupid plan with a nuke would not work.. LOL .. You have no idea the power we hold you Terrorist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #4
Maybe instead of sitting in that fox hole you should of learnt the meaning of the word "terrorist", you appear to me yet another ignorant who believes that his country will be the most dominant world power for the rest of eternity.

Oddly enough it doesn't work like that, as you have cited the Romans once ruled the majority of the planet and so obviously had the largest stake in trade and the economy. But what happened to them? Destroyed by religion.

Next example; my own fair country, the United Kingdom, for decades we controlled more land (trade/resources) then anyone else, our navy ruled the seas and in a time where exploration was key we became the most dominant nation. Once all the edges of the maps were filled in we became gradually less important, the colonies that we once had control over were granted independence (your nation being one of them albeit only after a conflict) so the resources and trade that we once lorded over where passed on and our "rule" subsided.

Then along comes WWII and the age where military strength was the presiding factor about who would be the most dominant nation (the main competitor being Germany [and Russia later on] of course). Still to this day the U.S has the largest armed force in the world and as such still remains dominant. This in turn has allowed you to develop a very strong economy that many other countries benefit from.

However the world is changing, military strength (while still important) is being over taken by economic strength and while America may still have it's stock market and resources, more and more manufacturing is being moved to Asian countries (primarily China). This is due to different laws and regulations that allow large corporations to pay workers less to produce larger quantities of product. Maybe you will retain control of your stock markets and it is very unlikely that the US will ever become a minor player in the world stage (such as the UK still has a large influence) but it will not remain the most dominant country forever, that I can promise you.
LOL did you not read all of my post.. Get a drink man lol  Congrats man your Terrorist #8

Last edited by The Bartenders Son (2007-01-10 08:12:59)

The Bartenders Son
Member
+42|7003|online

112505 wrote:

America will fall like the other powers before it maybe not by war this time. Mark my word on it and when in a few hundred years it does you'll see I'm right or maybe in a few years. I will always support  support China to be the next super power.
Terrorist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #9 lol .. i hope your wrong
The Bartenders Son
Member
+42|7003|online

Steel wrote:

venom6 wrote:

The USA was lucky the whole time during his young history.Making big business and money from WW1 and WW2 so and nothing takes forever.The Roman empire was fallen as well....
USA shouldnt think that he is the world leader...but he is at the moment....Dont forget China,India,Russia,Middle East....they are comming and will replace USA like UK said bye to the #1 position after WW2...
LUCK HAS NO PART, America sided with Israel (gods chosen people) Israel scientist gave us (America) fat man and little boy.
End of story - those who are not with us are against us
My Man! Free Drink for you
The Bartenders Son
Member
+42|7003|online
Towelly

"In truth we just make the news... you are the ones who care about it."

lol I like that man
The Bartenders Son
Member
+42|7003|online

ELITE-UK wrote:

yes the USA will fail, not because of its enemies, but because of itself.

I was watching a documentory a while back about the american economy and such, and it said that the consumer debt its huge, but not big enough to effect the economy...YET! and same with the finances of the american government financial defecit, its big, but in a matter of a couple of decades it will eat away on the americaneconomy, and will, yes WILL fail within the next 50 years.

so sorry to burst your bubble, but the american economy WILL! fail thus leading to the fall of the united states of america.
Ha Ha Terrorist #10 lol

How many people got emotional over this post? Lmao
112505
Member
+5|6630

The Bartenders Son wrote:

112505 wrote:

America will fall like the other powers before it maybe not by war this time. Mark my word on it and when in a few hundred years it does you'll see I'm right or maybe in a few years. I will always support  support China to be the next super power.
Terrorist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #9 lol .. i hope your wrong
I'm a terriost in the eyes of a idiot. I'm mostly Chinese with many family members serving in the PLA so I might be biased but America will fall to something.
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6956

CameronPoe wrote:

stryyker wrote:

Robbie77 wrote:


and the countris that the u.s don't aid?
Name one country the US doesnt aid and/or support that you care of. Exactly
Palestine.
Palestine isn't a country.
TryfanMan
Member
+2|7050|Yorkshire, UK
The US probably won't fail/fall or whatever, but don't forget things change.  Each and every super power since the dinosaurs (they certainly ruled the planet, although not in the political sense) until the British Empire (controlled nearly 25% of the worlds population) have either been defeated, wasted away over many years, destroyed over night or or, simply overtaken by not keeping ahead of other developing entities.

The only constant is change, things do not stay the same (ever) given enough time.

Last edited by TryfanMan (2007-01-10 09:26:58)

Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|7004|San Francisco
I'm fairly certain we'll rip ourselves apart before any terrorism or coherent enemies can get to us...I foresee serious problems for the US within the next 30 years.

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