sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6767|Argentina
VP Bill? Depends on Meaning of 'Elected'

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From Washington Post:

The prospective presidential candidacy of Hillary Rodham Clinton has given rise to plenty of speculation about the notion of Bill Clinton as the nation's first gentleman. But what about another role? How about, say, vice president?

As the former president might say, it all depends on the meaning of the word "elected." Under Article II of the Constitution, a person is "eligible to the Office of President" as long as he or she is a natural-born U.S. citizen, at least 35 years old and a resident of the United States for 14 years. The 12th Amendment says "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President."

But then Congress and the states added the 22nd Amendment in 1951 to prevent anyone from following the example of Franklin D. Roosevelt, who won four terms. That's where things get dicey. "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice," the 22nd Amendment says.

On its face, that seems to suggest that Clinton could be vice president because he is only barred from being elected president a third time, not from serving as president.

Kathleen M. Sullivan, director of the Stanford Constitutional Law Center, said the 22nd Amendment, "as I read it, does not preclude a Clinton-Clinton ticket." She added: "Bill, if elected VP, could become president in the event that President Hillary became incapacitated; he just could not run for reelection from that successor post."
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So, technically Bill Clinton could be President again.   And a Hill-Bill ticket would help Hillary to win.  What do you think?

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-12-22 04:08:33)

Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6672|USA
Good. He was a helluva a prez.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6591|SE London

Nice little loophole that.
Jenkinsbball
Banned
+149|6558|USA bitches!
Better than having Bush and the Reps in there...
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6598|United States of America
Clinton is allowed to be president again.  That amendment is there to only limit consecutive terms.  Clinton served two terms (8 years) and he became inelegible for office of the presidency only for the next four years.
Technically he could have ran against G.W. Bush when Bush ran for a second term.

Last edited by JG1567JG (2006-12-22 06:53:48)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6767|Argentina

JG1567JG wrote:

Clinton is allowed to be president again.  That amendment is there to only limit consecutive terms.  Clinton served two terms (8 years) and he became inelegible for office of the presidency only for the next four years.
Technically he could have ran against G.W. Bush when Bush ran for a second term.
"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice," the 22nd Amendment says.
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|6757|The United Center
Wow...well isn't that interesting?

I would vote for the Clintons.
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|6757|The United Center

JG1567JG wrote:

Clinton is allowed to be president again.  That amendment is there to only limit consecutive terms.  Clinton served two terms (8 years) and he became inelegible for office of the presidency only for the next four years.
Technically he could have ran against G.W. Bush when Bush ran for a second term.
Incorrect.  Once voted into office twice, you cannot be voted in again, no matter if your terms are consecutive or not.
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6598|United States of America

ThomasMorgan wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

Clinton is allowed to be president again.  That amendment is there to only limit consecutive terms.  Clinton served two terms (8 years) and he became inelegible for office of the presidency only for the next four years.
Technically he could have ran against G.W. Bush when Bush ran for a second term.
Incorrect.  Once voted into office twice, you cannot be voted in again, no matter if your terms are consecutive or not.
I shall stand corrected after reading the 22nd amendment.  I was always told, by teachers that it was only for consectutive terms.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6767|Argentina

JG1567JG wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

Clinton is allowed to be president again.  That amendment is there to only limit consecutive terms.  Clinton served two terms (8 years) and he became inelegible for office of the presidency only for the next four years.
Technically he could have ran against G.W. Bush when Bush ran for a second term.
Incorrect.  Once voted into office twice, you cannot be voted in again, no matter if your terms are consecutive or not.
I shall stand corrected after reading the 22nd amendment.  I was always told, by teachers that it was only for consectutive terms.
That's what many people want it to say.
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6598|United States of America

sergeriver wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:


Incorrect.  Once voted into office twice, you cannot be voted in again, no matter if your terms are consecutive or not.
I shall stand corrected after reading the 22nd amendment.  I was always told, by teachers that it was only for consectutive terms.
That's what many people want it to say.
And you being from Argentina know this how?
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6767|Argentina

JG1567JG wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

I shall stand corrected after reading the 22nd amendment.  I was always told, by teachers that it was only for consectutive terms.
That's what many people want it to say.
And you being from Argentina know this how?
Reading the news and talking with American friends and relatives.  We have internet also here.

For instance this guy wants to change it:

One constitutional lawyer not heard from on the issue is William Jefferson Clinton, Yale Law class of 1973. But he has offered thoughts on the 22nd Amendment. Before leaving office and again in 2003, he suggested amending the amendment to let a two-term president leave office and then run again: "Since people are living much longer . . . the 22nd Amendment should probably be modified to say two consecutive terms instead of two terms for a lifetime."

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-12-22 07:10:17)

JG1567JG
Member
+110|6598|United States of America

sergeriver wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

That's what many people want it to say.
And you being from Argentina know this how?
Reading the news and talking with American friends and relatives.  We have internet also here.
I have never heard anyone that wants this law or amendment to change.  If it was even a topic in the U.S. I would have probably know that it wasn't pertaining to consecutive terms.  I'm not saying that it hasn't been brought up but that I just havn't heard anything about it. +1 to Thomas Morgan and Serge for helping me learn something today.

Last edited by JG1567JG (2006-12-22 07:14:03)

J4ck.P0tt
dong-ma?
+8|6384|Berlin
Now let's all just dream for a moment... Hillary is President and Bill becomes first gentleman - what might happen:

Hillary fires all female interns, Bill drafts an addendum to the work contract of all white house employees requiring all staff to hand over their duty uniform/costume/dress at the end of each working day to the secret service dry-cleaning division. Meanwhile, Dubya becomes CEO of Halliburton, but with a restraining clause in his contract that he may not speak in public; whenever (accidentally) addressed in public, Vice-CEO Condoleezza must answer on his behalf.

https://blog.lewrockwell.com/lewrw/archives/bill_and_hillary_clinton-vi.jpg
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6598|United States of America

sergeriver wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

That's what many people want it to say.
And you being from Argentina know this how?
Reading the news and talking with American friends and relatives.  We have internet also here.

For instance this guy wants to change it:

One constitutional lawyer not heard from on the issue is William Jefferson Clinton, Yale Law class of 1973. But he has offered thoughts on the 22nd Amendment. Before leaving office and again in 2003, he suggested amending the amendment to let a two-term president leave office and then run again: "Since people are living much longer . . . the 22nd Amendment should probably be modified to say two consecutive terms instead of two terms for a lifetime."
Sorry I was thinking recently like in the past year or two and not year 2000 and 2003.  I have heard of no push recently to have this changed.

Last edited by JG1567JG (2006-12-22 07:22:38)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6455|The Land of Scott Walker
Ahhh aaah!  My eyes, my eyes!  Dang that woman is ugly.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6505
He could be VP, but not pres.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6767|Argentina

jonsimon wrote:

He could be VP, but not pres.
If he is elected VP, he could become president in the event that President Hillary became incapacitated.
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6598|United States of America

sergeriver wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

He could be VP, but not pres.
If he is elected VP, he could become president in the event that President Hillary became incapacitated.
You are right except VP are appointed by the person running for the presidency not elected per say.  The person that gets the VP nomination can make or break an election for a canidate though.

Last edited by JG1567JG (2006-12-22 07:34:59)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6782|PNW

sergeriver wrote:

Depends on Meaning of 'Elected'
Great title for that article.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-22 07:35:06)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6559|Southeastern USA
as a citizen of a former french holding, i understand he is eligible to run for office in france, let them have him
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6659|Washington DC

sergeriver wrote:

So, technically Bill Clinton could be President again.   And a Hill-Bill ticket would help Hillary to win.  What do you think?
No.  Bill cannot run as vice-president, nor can he be appointed as vice-president.  The 12th amendment requires that a vice-presidential candidate meet the requirements of the presidency.


Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution wrote:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;
The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as the President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.
The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
This basically rules out any loop-holes that one might imagine, as they try to get around the "letter of the law".  Won't happen ... guaranteed.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6767|Argentina

OrangeHound wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

So, technically Bill Clinton could be President again.   And a Hill-Bill ticket would help Hillary to win.  What do you think?
No.  Bill cannot run as vice-president, nor can he be appointed as vice-president.  The 12th amendment requires that a vice-presidential candidate meet the requirements of the presidency.


Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution wrote:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;
The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as the President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.
The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
This basically rules out any loop-holes that one might imagine, as they try to get around the "letter of the law".  Won't happen ... guaranteed.
The 12th Amendment says "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President."

But then Congress and the states added the 22nd Amendment in 1951 to prevent anyone from following the example of Franklin D. Roosevelt, who won four terms. That's where things get dicey. "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice," the 22nd Amendment says.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6501|Northern California
I don't think the 22nd cancels any provisions of the 12th as they are two separate scenarios.

As for me, I'd prefer that neither of them make the white house..but if Hillary does win, and she considers her husband for a position, I'd hope he'd be chief of staff or some cabinet position as he'd be excellent in that capacity.  Vice President would be lame even if he could serve.  I'd much rather Hillary pick one of the dem, or even a moderate republican presidential candidates for VP.

But this is assuming Barrack is beaten by Hillary in the primaries, which I hope doesn't happen.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-12-22 09:03:13)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6767|Argentina

IRONCHEF wrote:

I don't think the 22nd cancels any provisions of the 12th as they are two separate scenarios.

As for me, I'd prefer that neither of them make the white house..but if Hillary does win, and she considers her husband for a position, I'd hope he'd be chief of staff or some cabinet position as he'd be excellent in that capacity.  Vice President would be lame even if he could serve.  I'd much rather Hillary pick one of the dem, or even a moderate republican presidential candidates for VP.

But this is assuming Barrack is beaten by Hillary in the primaries, which I hope doesn't happen.
Do you think that a black guy called Hussein could become President of US?

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