The Earth is 4,5 billion years old and we've been here for less than 100k. How do you expect Humans to know everything in 6000 years of science? Anyway, we know enough about science, but we know nothing about God.Stingray24 wrote:
If we're truly the masters of our own destiny, why haven't we grasped the details of our universe by now? Because we have finite minds. We can't possibly fully understand the complete depth of our universe. All we have are scientific theories that are a feeble attempt to explain things in terms we can wrap our minds around.
Because priests touch boys and the Vatican owns a lot of land and a shitload of valuables, yet keep asking for money.
And the same occurs in other Religions. Wtf, Muhammad was a pedophile himself.usmarine2007 wrote:
Because priests touch boys and the Vatican owns a lot of land and a shitload of valuables, yet keep asking for money.
I’m sorry you had such a bad experience in the churches you visited, Mason4Assassin444. True Christianity does not promote racism or protect pedophiles. You may have heard it before, but Christians are not perfect, we’re still human. That’s not an excuse, it’s simply reality. The things you mentioned do happen in some churches. We’re forgiven when we truly repent and ask God’s forgiveness, BUT that is NOT an excuse to go sin one’s head off. If you are looking for religion to create perfect people, you’ll be sadly disappointed. We do let our emotions take over and flip people off behind the wheel and much worse. That is further proof of why we need God in our lives - we aren’t perfect, that’s why salvation isn’t based on works. I know I could never be good enough on my own to earn my way into Heaven on my own. That’s what salvation is for, it’s free, just requires belief. Anyone, no matter what they’ve done in life, can accept it. I will not argue the literal interpretation of the Bible with you, since you do not believe it is true in the first place. I completely agree with you that a building of brick or stone is not needed to worship. Hope you encounter some true Christians at some point in your life. They’re wonderful people to get to know.
We know a lot more about science than you seem to think. We're far from any sort of grand unified theory, which is the ultimate goal of physicists, but we have lots of the parts of it.stef10 wrote:
The science we know today is maybe only 10% of the science, that really is. Like we do not even know everything about the atom. Who knows what the smallets part is. Like what are quarkes made of and after that. What about blackholes. And do not start about the bullshit about us knowning how big the universe is. We do not know shit. Hell even our own mathsystem is fucked up in some areas.
We know much more than you might think about Quarks and Baryons and other subatomic particles, we do know what the smallest particles are, but that depends upon a particle based system and more modern theories are moving away from those ideals. Quantum theory deals with particle/wave duality and String theory suggests that there are no particles just multidimensional 'strings' forming a particle through multiple dimensions.
You're quite right, we don't know how big the universe is. We can hazard a guess though, since we know it's getting bigger, we know when it began and by approximating the speed of expansion by factoring in gravity and the forces exerted by Dark Energy (another thing no one really understands), we can come up with an approximation of the size. Which could be utterly wrong because no one really understands the true nature of the universe. In fact a number of theories about the nature of the universe suggest that there could not possibly be a creator, Hawking's 'No Boudary Proposal' is probably the most famous of these.
I think we've discovered a lot more than 10% of 'science'. It's more of a case of putting all the pieces together and making some sort of practical use of it.
As for life having to be created, why? There have been experiments showing that building blocks of life can be created through conditions that could have naturally occured on Earth. Amino acids and Adenine have been produced in these experiments, these, combined with some other similar chemicals, could form life. Although the bridge between chemical and biological evolution is something science has yet to conclusively explain.
God sent His Son to tell us about Him, yet we humans still refuse to acknowledge His existence and demand more proof. Fascinating.sergeriver wrote:
The Earth is 4,5 billion years old and we've been here for less than 100k. How do you expect Humans to know everything in 6000 years of science? Anyway, we know enough about science, but we know nothing about God.Stingray24 wrote:
If we're truly the masters of our own destiny, why haven't we grasped the details of our universe by now? Because we have finite minds. We can't possibly fully understand the complete depth of our universe. All we have are scientific theories that are a feeble attempt to explain things in terms we can wrap our minds around.
EDIT: How do we truly know the earth is 4.5 billion years old, that's simply a guess. Science cannot prove that conclusively.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-12-07 08:09:22)
Very thoughtful writing.Stingray24 wrote:
I’m sorry you had such a bad experience in the churches you visited, Mason4Assassin444. True Christianity does not promote racism or protect pedophiles. You may have heard it before, but Christians are not perfect, we’re still human. That’s not an excuse, it’s simply reality. The things you mentioned do happen in some churches. We’re forgiven when we truly repent and ask God’s forgiveness, BUT that is NOT an excuse to go sin one’s head off. If you are looking for religion to create perfect people, you’ll be sadly disappointed. We do let our emotions take over and flip people off behind the wheel and much worse. That is further proof of why we need God in our lives - we aren’t perfect, that’s why salvation isn’t based on works. I know I could never be good enough on my own to earn my way into Heaven on my own. That’s what salvation is for, it’s free, just requires belief. Anyone, no matter what they’ve done in life, can accept it. I will not argue the literal interpretation of the Bible with you, since you do not believe it is true in the first place. I completely agree with you that a building of brick or stone is not needed to worship. Hope you encounter some true Christians at some point in your life. They’re wonderful people to get to know.
My 8 year old went to church with grandma and grandpa last summer. She came back and told me and her mother she "found god". I asked her how she knew she found God. She said because the preacher told her she did.
Religion is no more than a money maker now. And with money comes corruption which spawned the pedophile priest.
Lets talk about how Christianity raped the Pagans. And then adopted thier holidays as thier own.
I will agree Jesus was real. Maybe a schizo but real. I also believe he may have been a prophet. God's son? That I refuse to believe.Stingray24 wrote:
God sent His Son to tell us about Him, yet we humans still refuse to acknowledge His existence and demand more proof. Fascinating.sergeriver wrote:
The Earth is 4,5 billion years old and we've been here for less than 100k. How do you expect Humans to know everything in 6000 years of science? Anyway, we know enough about science, but we know nothing about God.Stingray24 wrote:
If we're truly the masters of our own destiny, why haven't we grasped the details of our universe by now? Because we have finite minds. We can't possibly fully understand the complete depth of our universe. All we have are scientific theories that are a feeble attempt to explain things in terms we can wrap our minds around.
EDIT: How do we truly know the earth is 4.5 billion years old, that's simply a guess. Science cannot prove that conclusively.
Adam and Eve are the real thing too? So we're all West Virginian?
haha! funny how this just trips off the tongue
Yet is completely and utterly mindblowing"..String theory suggests that there are no particles just multidimensional 'strings' forming a particle through multiple dimensions."
Jesus was probably real. An iconic figure, certainly. God's son - ha.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
I will agree Jesus was real. Maybe a schizo but real. I also believe he may have been a prophet. God's son? That I refuse to believe.Stingray24 wrote:
God sent His Son to tell us about Him, yet we humans still refuse to acknowledge His existence and demand more proof. Fascinating.sergeriver wrote:
The Earth is 4,5 billion years old and we've been here for less than 100k. How do you expect Humans to know everything in 6000 years of science? Anyway, we know enough about science, but we know nothing about God.
EDIT: How do we truly know the earth is 4.5 billion years old, that's simply a guess. Science cannot prove that conclusively.
Adam and Eve are the real thing too? So we're all West Virginian?
Adam and Eve? What a load of rubbish. The Story of Genesis was just made up to explain what could not be explained at the time. People naturally want things explained to them, if there are no real explainations then they often make them up. That's basically what religion is.
We don't know that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old exactly. But that's DEFINATELY close. We've found rocks that are almost 4 billion years old. Isochron dating techniques are proven to work effectively and give accurate results. Just because a lot of religious types rufuse to accept this evidence makes it no less solid fact.
Really? Care to provide any evidence to back up that statement? I'm not challenging the idea, just the fact that true science does not make that assumption.stef10 wrote:
Scientists have already said, that somebody gave a hand to make the evolution begin. It is impossible for it to begin on its own.
I know. I don't like String theory. Just when you think you're getting to understand something a bit they go and change it all.IG-Calibre wrote:
haha! funny how this just trips off the tongueYet is completely and utterly mindblowing"..String theory suggests that there are no particles just multidimensional 'strings' forming a particle through multiple dimensions."
Logic, reason, rationality, common sense, strength of character.
While I respect your beliefs, you can't say the Earth age is just a guess, it's a fact. But for you Jesus being God's son is not a guess, but a fact.Stingray24 wrote:
God sent His Son to tell us about Him, yet we humans still refuse to acknowledge His existence and demand more proof. Fascinating.sergeriver wrote:
The Earth is 4,5 billion years old and we've been here for less than 100k. How do you expect Humans to know everything in 6000 years of science? Anyway, we know enough about science, but we know nothing about God.Stingray24 wrote:
If we're truly the masters of our own destiny, why haven't we grasped the details of our universe by now? Because we have finite minds. We can't possibly fully understand the complete depth of our universe. All we have are scientific theories that are a feeble attempt to explain things in terms we can wrap our minds around.
EDIT: How do we truly know the earth is 4.5 billion years old, that's simply a guess. Science cannot prove that conclusively.
Maybe they never started believing..sergeriver wrote:
Why do you think people stopped believing?
You do realise that comment has just insulted 1734000000 people, think before you post .spray_and_pray wrote:
And a virgin mary bs i bet you she was a slut.
The need for religion springs from a few very basic human characteristics:
We have fear of death , religion promises protection and ultimately "life after death".
We have lust for power, religion wields power like no other. Dont take my word for it, ask the pope!
We have limited understanding of the universe around us, religion gives answers with "Look no further" punch lines.
Religion is loosing ground because we have evolved:
We live longer lives now, than ever before. Thanks to safer societies as a whole and hospitals in particular.
Religion is still a major tool of power, but there are other more sexier tools, like media and the entertainment business. Go Arnold! Go Oprah and Dr. Phil. Go Stephen Colbert!!!
We have ignored those "Look no further" lines and looked further. We have used tests and reasoning to find answers. People have the opportunity to study for themselves and its working! We are tearing down our physical limitations and looking further and further.
Some might say that religion is a retreat for people in despair. A set of answers for people who fear things that they dont understand.
We have fear of death , religion promises protection and ultimately "life after death".
We have lust for power, religion wields power like no other. Dont take my word for it, ask the pope!
We have limited understanding of the universe around us, religion gives answers with "Look no further" punch lines.
Religion is loosing ground because we have evolved:
We live longer lives now, than ever before. Thanks to safer societies as a whole and hospitals in particular.
Religion is still a major tool of power, but there are other more sexier tools, like media and the entertainment business. Go Arnold! Go Oprah and Dr. Phil. Go Stephen Colbert!!!
We have ignored those "Look no further" lines and looked further. We have used tests and reasoning to find answers. People have the opportunity to study for themselves and its working! We are tearing down our physical limitations and looking further and further.
Some might say that religion is a retreat for people in despair. A set of answers for people who fear things that they dont understand.
Last edited by SpaceApollyon (2006-12-07 08:47:40)
Even with isochron dating, which we believe is accurate, how do we truly know? Throughout scientific history, we've constantly adjusted what we feel are solid facts. Then someone makes a new discovery and everything changes. You're right, just because "religious types" don't accept the evidence doesn't make it less solid fact. I could use the same reasoning in relation to my faith, though - just because "non-religious" types refuse to accept the evidence doesn't make it less true. I see the solid facts constantly changing, which, for me, raises questions to the validity of the accuracy. I don't know about you, but it takes a loooong time to adequately explain one's position in written form. The weakness of discussing these deep issues in a forum I guess. I would much rather discuss these things in person. Anyone up for a LAN party with some debate about human origins?Bertster7 wrote:
Jesus was probably real. An iconic figure, certainly. God's son - ha.
Adam and Eve? What a load of rubbish. The Story of Genesis was just made up to explain what could not be explained at the time. People naturally want things explained to them, if there are no real explainations then they often make them up. That's basically what religion is.
We don't know that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old exactly. But that's DEFINATELY close. We've found rocks that are almost 4 billion years old. Isochron dating techniques are proven to work effectively and give accurate results. Just because a lot of religious types rufuse to accept this evidence makes it no less solid fact.
Hahahahah spot on, spot on.CameronPoe wrote:
Yeah spray_and_pray - she wasn't strictly speaking a slut, I think she was just into anal.jimmanycricket wrote:
You do realise that comment has just insulted 1734000000 people, think before you post .spray_and_pray wrote:
And a virgin mary bs i bet you she was a slut.
Would you repeat that infront of your mother big man?CameronPoe wrote:
Yeah spray_and_pray - she wasn't strictly speaking a slut, I think she was just into anal.jimmanycricket wrote:
You do realise that comment has just insulted 1734000000 people, think before you post .spray_and_pray wrote:
And a virgin mary bs i bet you she was a slut.
Evolution has never been able to answer where the matter that initiated our existence came from. There have been some noble attempts, but they're downright laughable.Psycho wrote:
Really? Care to provide any evidence to back up that statement? I'm not challenging the idea, just the fact that true science does not make that assumption.stef10 wrote:
Scientists have already said, that somebody gave a hand to make the evolution begin. It is impossible for it to begin on its own.
EDIT: missed a spelling error (apparently I haven't evolved far enough to eliminate those errors )
Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-12-07 08:47:33)
I do not believe in god, because i think it is a relict of times, when people needed simple answers for all things, they did not understand. why should i live after a book, that some guys wrote down hundred or thousand years before? science and ratio [eliminates] all existing gods.
There is a severe schism between religion and science that cannot be resolved. Early religion was responsible for explaining physical events such as wether, earthquakes, etc. In doing so, those religions made mistakes in trying to explain these phenomenon. Now they are stuck trying to defend their postitions.
Case in point: Galileo Galilei. During his time, the Catholic church adhered to Aristotelian science which was of the belief that the earth was immovable and the center of the universe. Galileo was a believer in Copernicanism - which beleived the sun was at the center. Galileo eventually built a telescope and proved the sun was at the center.
For this he was tried and convicted of heresy and excommunicated from the church. It wasn't until 1992 that Pope John Paul II formally declared that the church made a mistake - just a mere 300 years.
Case in point: Galileo Galilei. During his time, the Catholic church adhered to Aristotelian science which was of the belief that the earth was immovable and the center of the universe. Galileo was a believer in Copernicanism - which beleived the sun was at the center. Galileo eventually built a telescope and proved the sun was at the center.
For this he was tried and convicted of heresy and excommunicated from the church. It wasn't until 1992 that Pope John Paul II formally declared that the church made a mistake - just a mere 300 years.
Why do people use Christianity as a generalization of all religions? I do not practice the bible, I am a follower of Buddha and I am an average US citizen. Not all Americans are buying into the bullshit that the Church spews out, and yet, I am still religious.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
MY opinionsergeriver wrote:
Today almost 1,2 billion persons are atheists or agnostics.
Why do you think people stopped believing?
Does science prove everything to such a point that people can't believe in God anymore?
Is Organized Religion making people lose faith in God?
Those who choose to believe, do they actually believe, or do they fear to be alone?
I've been to church twice in my life. In both churches the N word was used during a sermon. Then the Catholic Pedofile Reachout program where we hide pedophiles among different churches in the country to avoid prosecution. THen the church reaping benefits via tax breaks and such, but they want to have an impact on US Policy. THe radicals thinking the bible is meant to be taken word for word. The radicals believing they are better than an aetheist or agnostic person.
Agnostic I am. And proud. I spend my Sunday morning doing for me. Not for a God. Because I work to hard the other days of the week.
Overall the religious community is a massive gathering of hypocrits who can flick people off in traffic, wish death to thier boss, or have an affair; then go to church Sunday and be forgiven.
You don't need a building of brick or stone to worship what you believe.
If hell is what is waiting for me, I'm lined up and ready.
But if you are not religious, I totally respect that, its all about what is good for your own self.
As Buddha said
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agress with your own reason and your own common sense."
haha funny post, funny threadCameronPoe wrote:
Yeah spray_and_pray - she wasn't strictly speaking a slut, I think she was just into anal.jimmanycricket wrote:
You do realise that comment has just insulted 1734000000 people, think before you post .spray_and_pray wrote:
And a virgin mary bs i bet you she was a slut.
as for the original question i think people are just not buying into the whole religious thing and not becoming religious in the first place (SOME people). and others dont want to give up their sunday morning favoring playing BF2 instead