BF2S Forums English Historian says "Hitler was defeated by the Russians"

Mr.Casual wrote:

Stormscythe wrote:

IMHO, the US deserve no credit for any war they've been waging. They.....

IMHO, Your a fucking idiot.

I second that.

{BMF}*Frank_The_Tank wrote:

Hmm....well, of course living in the states, I grew up always being told throughout my history classes that the Nazis controlled Europe, and met most resistance from the Soviets.  But I think I remember the Nazis actually occupying quite a bit of Soviet land.  If the US, UK, Canadian and Australian forces had not done the D-Day invasion, nor got too involved (by this I mean the UK defending their land, and the US not getting into it), the Nazis would have had alot more forces to fight the Soviets with, which could have, and probably would have had a much different outcome.

I believe the US, UK, Canada and Australia deserve just as much credit as the Soviets do.  If it werent for all of us, the Soviets would have collapsed most likely (no pun intended, because they did anyway later on).

And because of this -

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Mmm, yes Britain and thre US do deserve credit because they were also fighting a war with Germany on one of a few fronts.

The US and UK were fighting on more than just one front.  North Africa and Italy were some major points of battle as well.

Yes I know, just giving an example

Stormscythe wrote:

Mr.Casual wrote:

Stormscythe wrote:

IMHO, the US deserve no credit for any war they've been waging. They.....

IMHO, Your a fucking idiot.

Thanks for pointing it out.


Edit: I'm of course willing to change my attitude if you can explain me what wars were justified.

WW1 and WW2 were pretty justified if you ask me but from where your from you probably don't think the U.S. should have intervened.

Stormscythe wrote:

I'm of course willing to change my attitude if you can explain me what wars were justified.

WW1 was not justified, but our involvement in it was.  The same goes for WW2.

It's rare for a war to be "necessary", but America does have a responsibility to help its allies.

JG1567JG wrote:

Something that I haven't seen said yet is one of the biggest reasons for Germany's defeat at Stalingrad was because of the terrible winters that the Soviet Union had.  The Germans were wipping the Soviets ass untill the winter set in and they couldn't sustain supply lines, equipment would freeze up, and soldiers would get sick and not be able to fight.  The weather was the biggest reason for Germany's defeat in Stalingrad.

Just saw a documentry on the History Channel that proved that.

Russia mostly did the job in defeating Nazi Germany. US-Britain, etc. helped. Without them, Russia would of suffered more casualties but still would of won the war in the end.

Techworld wrote:

We (UK) won

We (US) won...

You (UK) helped a hell of a lot though...

my point, US/UK FTW.

JG1567JG wrote:

Something that I haven't seen said yet is one of the biggest reasons for Germany's defeat at Stalingrad was because of the terrible winters that the Soviet Union had.  The Germans were wipping the Soviets ass untill the winter set in and they couldn't sustain supply lines, equipment would freeze up, and soldiers would get sick and not be able to fight.  The weather was the biggest reason for Germany's defeat in Stalingrad.

Yes, weather was a factor but I think you are not giving credit to the Soviet soldiers.

Besides being a turning point in the war, Stalingrad was also revealing in terms of the discipline and determination of both the German and Soviet armies. The Soviets first defended Stalingrad against a fierce German onslaught. So great were Soviet losses that at points in time the life expectancy of a newly arrived soldier was less than a day, yet discipline was maintained and soldiers gave their lives rather than retreat. On the other side, the German Army showed remarkable discipline after being surrounded. It was the first time that it had operated under adverse conditions of such scale. Short of food and clothing, during the latter part of the siege many German soldiers literally starved or froze to death. Yet, discipline and obedience to authority prevailed, until finally at the very end when resistance no longer served any useful purpose, to save the lives of his remaining men Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus disobeyed Hitler and surrendered.

Just in the sense of attrition and overwhelming numbers the Soviets had far more work to do. While there were some 50 Divisions of Boxheads in the west, they had over 300 Divisions in the East just to hold the massive Red Army. The Italian campaign made things harder by drawing away units from the east, particularly aircraft which contributed greatly to the shortage of transport planes available for air supply for Stalingrad.

See Antony Beevor's excellent "Stalingrad".

The Russians suffered way more casualties and inflicted more damage on the Germans than any Allied forces on the Eastern front.  They lost millions of soldiers and civilians.

Stormscythe wrote:

IMHO, the US deserve no credit for any war they've been waging. They never had their mother land attacked by foreigners until 9/11/2001 - which in some way would justify the war on terrorism, but still not in this way. In WWII, the US sent hundreds of thousands of soldiers to die, only because they knew they could - later on - make profit from the money they had given to the denazified countries. Today, Germany would still have to pay compensational fees to the winning forces if this part of the contract hadn't been nullified.
Also, Italy doesn't deserve eny credits for they (once again) sold themselves and traited a regime with similar policies. (That doesn't mean it was wrong to fight against the 3rd Reich, neither is it hard ro understand why they didn't go with Germany, now that we know the outcome - but it's strange in comparison to what the 'politicians' in Italy did at the same time...)
The UK, however, do indeed deserve credits, for they were also attacked and more or less had to fight.

But this author may be right, I'm quite certain that WW2 was at least decided in Russia, either by Russian soldiers or by Russian land.

1) German Agents with TNT in NYC (+ unconfirmed rpts of Japanese in California)
2)German UBoats sink countless tonnage of American goods
3)No war fought on US Soil? War of 1812, plus many skirmishes that could be debated until the end of time
4)Your basis for justifying credit for fighiting and dying in war depends on whether or not your motherland was being attacked? Poor logic indeed. Go try and tell it to the 408,000 or so families who had husbands. brothers, and sons killed in that war. America does not intentionally send troops to die. You can go die, just for your audacity to say that.
5)United States had to fight as well -- with a Nazi Europe, which country, logically, would be attacked next? And who would the US trade with? German Controlled Europe? Japanese Controlled Asia? South America would be the remaining viable option; even there, however, resided German officials.
6) UK, USA, USSR all deserve credit for the war; remove one and the war could've easily turned out differently.
7)My opinion? Germany was defeated by Hitler. By breaking the USSR agreement, he opened another front. By becoming so paranoid as to accuse his most capable officers of treason, and forcing them to commit suiced, he lost the ability to keenly comand forces. Replace hitler with an American/UK counterpart (assuming they had the same frantic feelings he had), and I wouldn't be allowed to legal type what i just wrote.

Democracy prevails!