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Topic closed

2006-11-30 07:58:15
EVieira
Member
+105|6737|Lutenblaag, Molvania

Fenris_GreyClaw wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

no, 1 = 1

i dont care what you say. .99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999~ = .99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999~ NOT 1

ur a dumbfuck if u think thats true. i mean cmon, even BASIC math skills say that every number is a number, their own number, nothing else.

1 = 1

.999999~ = .999999~
/win.

thread done.
You both fail miserably. You shouldn't call a thread about math done when you only know basic math... For BASIC math, thats fine. BASIC math is algebra, and algebra does explain this.

Using a little ADVANCED math, called calculus, 9.9999~ = 10, just as 0.99999~ = 1.

Here is a nice little link you can check, but I doubt you'll care to: Calculus and Limits
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-11-30 07:59:17
Pyrri
Member
+7|6881
c = 0.999... (All odd numbers, written on the form 2n+1 where n is any integer)
10*c = 9.999/.../0 (As (2n+1)*10 = 20n+10, which is not an odd number)
10*c - c = 9.999/.../0 - 0.999... = 8.999/.../1
9*c = 8.999/.../1
c = 0.999... ≠ 1
2006-11-30 08:01:37
Pyrri
Member
+7|6881
Using simple math called algebra and knowing how even and odd numers are formed...
2006-11-30 08:08:31
liquidat0r
wtf.
+2,223|6886|UK
No shit.

Come on guys, simple maths.
2006-11-30 08:09:02
EVieira
Member
+105|6737|Lutenblaag, Molvania

Pyrri wrote:

Using simple math called algebra and knowing how even and odd numers are formed...
You didn't even care to at least check the link? Its simply and well explained, try to understand it at least.

Have you or anyone else in this forum ever heard of NEWTON??? You have to use CALCULUS, algebra does not work for these operations!!!

People, what were are talking about here is the stuff astrophysicists use to calculate the the forces of black holes, chemical engineers use this stuff to calculate the strengths of molecular bondings, etc, etc...

ALGEBRA is not enough for these calculations. CHECK the link, it explains a little of calculus and how 0.9999999999999~ = 1

Last edited by EVieira (2006-11-30 08:09:58)

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-11-30 08:15:41
stef10
Member
+173|6741|Denmark
Well guys. Once I had a teacher who went to uni, and was an engineer. He explained that our mathsystem has a lot of flaws, that some people are trying to fix. Like this. So in a way the math we are doing must in some areas be wrong.
2006-11-30 08:21:25
EVieira
Member
+105|6737|Lutenblaag, Molvania

stef10 wrote:

Well guys. Once I had a teacher who went to uni, and was an engineer. He explained that our mathsystem has a lot of flaws, that some people are trying to fix. Like this. So in a way the math we are doing must in some areas be wrong.
There are things that our math systems can't yet resolve, but what it CAN resolve works just fine. This topic is not the case, you just need a little advanced math to understand.

This is the math that put man on the moon, the math that launches satelites and calculates the tides. If there were flaws to it we wouldn't have acomplished these feats.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-11-30 08:35:26
Pyrri
Member
+7|6881

EVieira wrote:

Pyrri wrote:

Using simple math called algebra and knowing how even and odd numers are formed...
You didn't even care to at least check the link? Its simply and well explained, try to understand it at least.

Have you or anyone else in this forum ever heard of NEWTON??? You have to use CALCULUS, algebra does not work for these operations!!!

People, what were are talking about here is the stuff astrophysicists use to calculate the the forces of black holes, chemical engineers use this stuff to calculate the strengths of molecular bondings, etc, etc...

ALGEBRA is not enough for these calculations. CHECK the link, it explains a little of calculus and how 0.9999999999999~ = 1
Why would algebra not be enough for disproving the trick of using c = .999... and computing?
It does take away the need of using limits, as proving that the limit excists is only equivalent to that the limit is an asymptote to the function to which the function converges.
It does not become equal to the asymptote.

Oh, as for the site, I do think I'm better of with Adam's Calculus
2006-11-30 08:40:26
Microwave
_
+515|6913|Loughborough Uni / Leeds, UK
S U R D S       


2006-11-30 08:44:23
jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6914|Cambridge, England

Onionpaste wrote:

Dunno if this has already been covered, if so, sorry for the spam, not intended.

So:

Let's call .99999~ (that's a decimal followed by an infinite number of 9's) a variable x.

So that means that x = .9999~

So by that logic, 10x = 9.9999~

If you subtract x from 10x, you get 9.00000~, as in the equation 10x - x = 9.00000~

This means 9.0000~, or just 9 (I put the 0's there to show that all the 9's after decimal went away), equals 9x.
9x = 9

Divide each side by 9, and you get x = 1.

That means that x is equal to .99999~ and 1 at the same time.  Therefore, .99999~ = 1!

If any math majors have found some sort of error in this reasoning, do not hesitate to reply so I can debate it with you

-Onion
That is correct, why would there be a problem, by definition 9.9 recuring = 10

another way, man there are loads

1/9 * 9 = 1 agreed

1/9 = 0.11111... agreed

9*1/9 = 1 agreed

=> 9*0.1111...=0.99999...=1     QED

Last edited by jimmanycricket (2006-11-30 08:49:05)

2006-11-30 08:47:23
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7102|Reykjavík, Iceland.
It's because when you do * 10 it moves one 9 over the decimal, so the .9999....would be one 9 shorter,

9.9999 - .99999 = 8.99991

and  8.99991 / 9 = .99999

case solved.
2006-11-30 08:49:43
jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6914|Cambridge, England

PBAsydney wrote:

It's because when you do * 10 it moves one 9 over the decimal, so the .9999....would be one 9 shorter,

9.9999 - .99999 = 8.99991

and  8.99991 / 9 = .99999

case solved.
No 9.99 recuring dosnt have an end so what you said was pointless and meaningless.

2006-11-30 08:50:46
jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6914|Cambridge, England
1/9 * 9 = 1 agreed

1/9 = 0.11111... agreed

9*1/9 = 1 agreed

=> 9*0.1111...=0.99999...=1     QED

If you dont agree with this you are not worthy of this thread.

Im not going to start quoting and calling people retards because i would be here a while.

Last edited by jimmanycricket (2006-11-30 08:53:01)

2006-11-30 08:56:44
Pyrri
Member
+7|6881

jimmanycricket wrote:

1/9 * 9 = 1 agreed

1/9 = 0.11111... agreed

9*1/9 = 1 agreed

=> 9*0.1111...=0.99999...=1     QED
If you dont agree with this you are not worthy of this thread.

Im not going to start quoting and calling people retards because i would be here a while.
No, scince you already specified 0.1111... = 1/9. You almost made a nice little proof using contradiction there...

Last edited by Pyrri (2006-11-30 08:58:40)

2006-11-30 09:01:02
jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6914|Cambridge, England

Towelly wrote:

Gen. Payne wrote:

I remember there was something out there that could prove 1=2. I gotta try to find that.

Found it (it is, in fact, false; try to find the error, you may get karma)

                 a = b
               ab = b²
          - (ab) = - (b²)
          a²-ab = a² - b²
         a(a-b) = (a+b) (a-b)
                a = a+b
                a = 2a
                1 = 2
Don't know if anyone has figured that one out, but it's messed up because at one point your multiplying by 0.
actually you can multiply by 0, 5x0 =0 there i did it, you cant divide by 0

and as

A=B

=> A-B = 0

=> when you divided by (a-b) you divided by 0 therefore that proff fails.

Last edited by jimmanycricket (2006-11-30 09:08:11)

2006-11-30 09:05:09
jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6914|Cambridge, England

Pyrri wrote:

jimmanycricket wrote:

1/9 * 9 = 1 agreed

1/9 = 0.11111... agreed

9*1/9 = 1 agreed

=> 9*0.1111...=0.99999...=1     QED
If you dont agree with this you are not worthy of this thread.

Im not going to start quoting and calling people retards because i would be here a while.
No, scince you already specified 0.1111... = 1/9. You almost made a nice little proof using contradiction there...
what, i didnt specify 1/9=0.11111.. it is fact, what do you think it is then.
2006-11-30 09:05:59
Marinejuana
local
+415|6844|Seattle
.99999999 only equals one when u decide to round, dude.

rather than rounding in one step, u do some algebra, then round your 9.000000000001~ to 9.0 so u can come out with an even 1.0.

what if i said 2 = 5 because u can decide to add 3 to 2 whenever u want? math is a closed system, once u begin changing your figures around your math is taken over by speculation.

EDIT: i dont take higher math and im not about to go to that link and learn why .9999999 somehow equals one, my only point is that the author of this thread failed to prove his point with the little algebra sequence he made up.

Last edited by Marinejuana (2006-11-30 09:12:07)

2006-11-30 09:07:19
jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6914|Cambridge, England

Marinejuana wrote:

.99999999 only equals one when u decide to round, dude.

rather than rounding in one step, u do some algebra, then round your 9.000000000001~ to 9.0 so u can come out with an even 1.0.

what if i said 2 = 5 because u can decide to add 3 to 2 whenever u want? math is a closed system, once u begin changing your figures around your math is taken over by speculation.
we're not saying 0.99999999 equals one

we're saying 0.9 recuring = 1
2006-11-30 09:08:25
dead_rac00n
Member
+12|6741|DTC
Reminds me of the demonstration in Monty Python's Holy Grail, when they say that the witch must burn because she has the same weight as a duck and therefore she is made of wood...
Absurd thread spotted....
2006-11-30 09:12:59
Pyrri
Member
+7|6881

jimmanycricket wrote:

Marinejuana wrote:

.99999999 only equals one when u decide to round, dude.

rather than rounding in one step, u do some algebra, then round your 9.000000000001~ to 9.0 so u can come out with an even 1.0.

what if i said 2 = 5 because u can decide to add 3 to 2 whenever u want? math is a closed system, once u begin changing your figures around your math is taken over by speculation.
we're not saying 0.99999999 equals one

we're saying 0.9 recuring = 1
No, 0.9 recuring → 1, but not 1 → 0.9 recuring.
2006-11-30 09:13:07
Gawwad
My way or Haddaway!
+212|6943|Espoo, Finland

Marinejuana wrote:

.99999999 only equals one when u decide to round, dude.

rather than rounding in one step, u do some algebra, then round your 9.000000000001~ to 9.0 so u can come out with an even 1.0.

what if i said 2 = 5 because u can decide to add 3 to 2 whenever u want? math is a closed system, once u begin changing your figures around your math is taken over by speculation.
It was NOT .999999999 it was .99999999~
A 0 followed by an infinite line of 99999
2006-11-30 09:14:11
Gawwad
My way or Haddaway!
+212|6943|Espoo, Finland

Pyrri wrote:

jimmanycricket wrote:

Marinejuana wrote:

.99999999 only equals one when u decide to round, dude.

rather than rounding in one step, u do some algebra, then round your 9.000000000001~ to 9.0 so u can come out with an even 1.0.

what if i said 2 = 5 because u can decide to add 3 to 2 whenever u want? math is a closed system, once u begin changing your figures around your math is taken over by speculation.
we're not saying 0.99999999 equals one

we're saying 0.9 recuring = 1
No, 0.9 recuring → 1, but not 1 → 0.9 recuring.
It does work both ways. No-one wants to turn a nice 1 into .99999~ though.
2006-11-30 09:21:17
Pyrri
Member
+7|6881

jimmanycricket wrote:

Pyrri wrote:

jimmanycricket wrote:

1/9 * 9 = 1 agreed

1/9 = 0.11111... agreed

9*1/9 = 1 agreed

=> 9*0.1111...=0.99999...=1     QED
If you dont agree with this you are not worthy of this thread.

Im not going to start quoting and calling people retards because i would be here a while.
No, scince you already specified 0.1111... = 1/9. You almost made a nice little proof using contradiction there...
what, i didnt specify 1/9=0.11111.. it is fact, what do you think it is then.
Well, then case is solved, scince you already made it clear in the first lines:

1/9 = 0.11111... agreed

9*1/9 (which is the same as 0.11111...)  = 1 agreed

Well, just to make it even clearer:
9*0.1111... (which is the same as 1/9) = 1
1 = 1 QED, no, wait. That's just silly!
2006-11-30 09:29:22
Marinejuana
local
+415|6844|Seattle
hmm, i guess im wrong now that i read the post again.

i didnt realize ~ denoted "recurring". i thought it meant "approximately." serves me right going 3 years without a math class.

can a number with infinitely recurring digits be proven to represent anything that actually exists? Isn't it impossible to determine if something is infinite? even though infinity is a clear theory im confused at how we could ever assign it as a value to something in the real world.
2006-11-30 09:47:24
10973
Member
+3|6743|UK, wots up wiv my karma? O
even wiv all this algerba proof i still think 0.99~ isnt  1 if its recurring the 9s never stop therefore it will all ways be adding and 9 and will not end. 0.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999. isnt 1 because it will always keep going  and wil not end. anything u add after the decimal point will never make the number go up unless u round. it will be very very close to one but never one. it cant be 1

0.33~ isnt 0.34 right... so y is 0.99~ eaqual to 1.00?

Last edited by 10973 (2006-11-30 10:01:16)

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