Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6551|SE London

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Also, sending them money will do nothing. It will never go to the people who need it or be spent on anything constructive. There is way too much corruption.
QFT.

It needs to be sorted out on a country by country basis. Focus on the least corrupt regimes first and get them running relatively smoothly, then invest in the countries. Leave the really messed up ones till last because they'll be harder work. For the really messed up ones send in AU peacekeepers and try to stop some of the bloodshed, but trying to get any real aid to the people is pretty much a waste of time (sad, but true).

Look at Kazakstan for a recent success story. Their resources were raped by the Soviets, now they are becoming a much better state to live in (despite the grim picture painted by Borat). All because of foreign investment in a nation rich with natural resources, like Africa. You can't blame all Africa's problems on colonialism, the vast majority of the problems are made by the Africans themselves.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Oh yeah, rich white people are bad..
That's what Mugabe says. That's why he kicked them all off their farms and instead of giving them to people who could use them productively he gave them all to his friends who didn't know the first thing about farming, so there was mass starvation. Exactly the type of scenario that typifies Africas problems.
The only problem with working on the least corrupt countries is that the more corrupt one's will probably end up going to war with them.  Infasturctures in Africa would help alot as far as I know about it, the infasturcture there sucks...

Oh I'm half kidding about the rich white people.
They won't go to war with them if the west offer them military support in case of attacks. If you were a African dictator would you want to:

A) Continue oppressing your own people, getting richer and richer and living in luxury.
B) Invade a country that will be defended by vastly more powerful western states and probably be deposed.

I know that's not the system as it exists, it's just a suggestion. But I can't see many dictators wanting to take on western backed nations. Particularly if the countries involved make clear they will take military action against anyone who tries to mess with the nation they've gone to all the trouble to sort out properly.

One step at a time, from the bottom up. If anyone tries to fuck it up, fuck them up. It's a simple philosophy, it might not work, but then again it might.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6665|NJ
Well I think that the main reason that it wouldn't work, is that we already strip everything of value from the country's and don't care if they build themselves up..
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6551|SE London

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Well I think that the main reason that it wouldn't work, is that we already strip everything of value from the country's and don't care if they build themselves up..
The 'we don't care' argument is true and kind of why little is being done about this. But it could work. Step by step. Governments don't like step by step approaches in general though, they like to do things unilaterally.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6460|Northern California

CameronPoe wrote:

What do you think should be done about the problems of malnutrition, disease, poverty and starvation in Africa?

How important an issue is it to you? I mean genuinely now. I don't want people feigning concern or lack of concern here - I want honest opinions.
Africa is gone.  There are many groups of people from all over the world trying to help here and there, but the continent is soooo huge and plagued with the stated problems spread out over so much land and in so many of the countries..it's too daunting a task to even consider making a realistic dent into.

But since you can't just nuke it and repopulate..what then?  For some reason, I won't travel there, even to South Africa.  I know my decision to do so will likely be because of ignorance, but as a choice to see the beautiful serengetty(?) or mount KMJ or egypt...vs. boring old Hawaii or Vancouver, BC..i'd take hawaii or vancouver.

Is it important to me?  Yes.  On what scale?  Well from 1 to 10, and 10 being the importance of my family, god, and 9 being my job...I'm gonna give it a 4 or 5 because I'm useless to effect change.  Prayer, fast offerings at church and missionary work is about all I can do...and frankly, it's the best i can do as those things directly effect african nations better than I could do myself.
RoccoDW
Member
+2|6337

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

RoccoDW wrote:

I'm from South africa and having lived my whole life there  can tell you thats its not a simple question. "western" people will always struggle to understand the place unless you've spent a significant time there and been to more than just one country. Sorry Ricardo but a year in Botswana doesnt qualify you to know the continent.

Tribalism, poverty, corruption and lack of education are the major stumbling blocks for Africa's growth. The best idea i've ever heard to help africa is from a man called Mo Ibrahim, a billionaire from Africa who's offering prize money to the best performing Head of state in Africa. you can read about it here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6086088.stm

The money is awarded to the Head of state thats done the most to fight corruption and basically do the job they're supposed to be doing anyway. If this is audited properly it could just work to get governments in line.

A major help for Africa would of course be if foreign countries stopped taking all the wealth away from the people. Africa is one of the richest continents in the world in terms natural resources but most of it is owned by foreign companies. The World Bank and IMF ensures that they keep the 3rd world down by providing conditional aid which ensure the country in question gets deeper and deeper into debt. (corruption in the country adds to this problem but isnt the worst of it) They will make loans to countrues and then specify how that money should be used. Most of it ending up back in America and Britain through fees, contracts and mineral rights anyway. You just need to look at how the entire dairy industry in Jamaica was destroyed by them to see how bad it is. Other issues include Aids, its ESTIMATED that 2.8 million people died of Aids in Africa last year alone. The continent's people are being wiped out yet international drug companies refuse to allow Africa to produce its own generic drugs because they might lose money in the long run.

Bottom line is that there is no simple answer to the problems of africa, it needs to be addressed from various angles but the best thing the world can do to help is to write off Africa's debt and let the continent sort itself out. "Aid" in its various forms often makes the problems worse.
They have computers in Africa?
They have billionares from Africa?
If so, then why don't people follow in Mo's footsteps and they can all be billionairs?
uhm... ever heard of Mark Shuttleworth? (veri-sign, Ubuntu, one of the first space tourists...) Harry Oppenheimer, Anton Rupert, Sol Kerzner... you'll be surprised.

Since Bil Gates is from America and Richard Branson from Europe, surely all americans and eurpeans are budding billionaires? Must be nice...

Last edited by RoccoDW (2006-11-21 14:49:50)

herrr_smity
Member
+156|6597|space command ur anus
Africa is FUBAR
jonsimon
Member
+224|6465
Easy fix for Africa: Stop funding and supplying powerful upper class.

One problem: The west makes too much money off of it to stop.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6690|California

Africa is a lost cause.

It pains me to say that, but for the most part its true.

-AIDS is killing thousands a day
-Diseases are bad, and common
-Little food
-No water
-Civil War
jonsimon
Member
+224|6465

stryyker wrote:

Africa is a lost cause.

It pains me to say that, but for the most part its true.

-AIDS is killing thousands a day
-Diseases are bad, and common
-Little food
-No water
-Civil War
But the problems share the same root, civil war and corrupt leadership. Eliminate the power of the upper class, which is primarily supplemented by import of arms and monopoly on food sources, such as foreign aid, and you take a great step towards political stabilzation. Once the area is politically stable, it is possible to introduce simple reforms funded by foreign aid that provide food, water, and medical treatment.
Phantom2828
Member
+51|6497|Land of the free

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Yes way too much corruption between the white man and there leaders/guerrilla's...  But yeah the white man was part of the segregation between teh Tootsie's(spelling) and the other group... So I'd say that's there fault, the black where segregated from the blacks in Africa, it's a form of control...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/ … cecard.jpg
lol did you get that from one of my posts?
acidkiller187
Member
+123|6600
Dear Mr.Poe Have you ever been to Africa My guess Is NOOOOOOOOOO We have tried to help those people so many times But the fact of the matter is they don't learn Give them food give them land to plant there own crops give them medicine give them all that shit help them get off there feet after the first good crop comes along and it's plowed down the bastards get lazy and expect us to help again fuck that fuck them let the assholes starve all there doing to Africa witch is such a beautiful country is fuck it up and I'm tiered of people that think they know what is going on over there fuck your CNN your BBC all that is a load oF BS anyway And i hope this sinks into your skull Africa will always be fucked no matter what ask any red blooded SOUTH AFRICAN THEY WILL Say THE SAME THING PEACE AND GOOD DAY
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6665|NJ
I don't think there's any sort of racism there at all, just ask acidkiller187, whose probably been shot at before but hey there's nothing wrong with a bunch of lazy africans.
acidkiller187
Member
+123|6600

cpt.fass1 wrote:

I don't think there's any sort of racism.
LOL SAY WHAT!!!!!!!

I was In CONGO for three years fighting the gorillas over there And yes i have been shot at and I've been shot
Dec45
Member
+12|6610

acidkiller187 wrote:

Dear Mr.Poe Have you ever been to Africa My guess Is NOOOOOOOOOO We have tried to help those people so many times But the fact of the matter is they don't learn Give them food give them land to plant there own crops give them medicine give them all that shit help them get off there feet after the first good crop comes along and it's plowed down the bastards get lazy and expect us to help again fuck that fuck them let the assholes starve all there doing to Africa witch is such a beautiful country is fuck it up and I'm tiered of people that think they know what is going on over there fuck your CNN your BBC all that is a load oF BS anyway And i hope this sinks into your skull Africa will always be fucked no matter what ask any red blooded SOUTH AFRICAN THEY WILL Say THE SAME THING PEACE AND GOOD DAY
Again, someone called Africa a country. I'm hoping this doesn't correlate with how interested the public is, in their well-being.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6525

acidkiller187 wrote:

Dear Mr.Poe Have you ever been to Africa My guess Is NOOOOOOOOOO We have tried to help those people so many times But the fact of the matter is they don't learn Give them food give them land to plant there own crops give them medicine give them all that shit help them get off there feet after the first good crop comes along and it's plowed down the bastards get lazy and expect us to help again fuck that fuck them let the assholes starve all there doing to Africa witch is such a beautiful country is fuck it up and I'm tiered of people that think they know what is going on over there fuck your CNN your BBC all that is a load oF BS anyway And i hope this sinks into your skull Africa will always be fucked no matter what ask any red blooded SOUTH AFRICAN THEY WILL Say THE SAME THING PEACE AND GOOD DAY
I don't know why you're ranting at me acidkiller - on a scale of 1 to 10 of me 'giving a shit about Africa' I rate about 1 or 2. I give to charity in the hope it helps but quite frankly Africa doesn't affect me and I probably don't affect Africa much. Peace and good day.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-21 16:09:51)

Dec45
Member
+12|6610

acidkiller187 wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

I don't think there's any sort of racism.
LOL SAY WHAT!!!!!!!

I was In CONGO for three years fighting the gorillas over there And yes i have been shot at and I've been shot
Africa is a country, and you fought gorillas?
jonsimon
Member
+224|6465

Dec45 wrote:

acidkiller187 wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

I don't think there's any sort of racism.
LOL SAY WHAT!!!!!!!

I was In CONGO for three years fighting the gorillas over there And yes i have been shot at and I've been shot
Africa is a country, and you fought gorillas?
It's quite the feat, I've seen it, but I would not attempt it myself. Only the startlingly fit can even attempt to overcome the powerful gorilla.
RoccoDW
Member
+2|6337

acidkiller187 wrote:

Dear Mr.Poe Have you ever been to Africa My guess Is NOOOOOOOOOO We have tried to help those people so many times But the fact of the matter is they don't learn Give them food give them land to plant there own crops give them medicine give them all that shit help them get off there feet after the first good crop comes along and it's plowed down the bastards get lazy and expect us to help again fuck that fuck them let the assholes starve all there doing to Africa witch is such a beautiful country is fuck it up and I'm tiered of people that think they know what is going on over there fuck your CNN your BBC all that is a load oF BS anyway And i hope this sinks into your skull Africa will always be fucked no matter what ask any red blooded SOUTH AFRICAN THEY WILL Say THE SAME THING PEACE AND GOOD DAY
Nope, dont agree. I must not be red blooded since i believe the place has a lot going for it actually. There is a lot of shit and life is worth very litte but its worth trying. In recent times i've been to namibia, kenya, mozambique, zaire and malawi and in each of those countries i've met some of the most genuine and friendly people i have ever met. I have seen new developments and business thriving. I can go on for a while but dont really thin u deserve that much of my time

I cant stand racist shits like you who give South Africans a bad name. You think back to the good old apartheid days and wish you could be there again. When the black man called you "baas" and stayed in his place. When whites had everything and blacks were not allowed on the streets after 7pm. You still believe the shit your parents/education system/vootrekkers/whatever drummed into you about being superior to the majority around you. People like u dont belong in Africa, stay out and make your life elsewhere. Everyone's enttiled to their opinion but dont try and speak for the rest of us!
Stealth42o
She looked 18 to me officer
+175|6641
I hope they find a lot of oil in Darfur or something so we will go help out.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6731

Stealth42o wrote:

I hope they find a lot of oil in Darfur or something so we will go help out.
Hate to break it to you, but there is a shit load of diamonds in Africa.  That happens to be the one of the biggest problems in Liberia.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

CameronPoe wrote:

What do you think should be done about the problems of malnutrition, disease, poverty and starvation in Africa?

How important an issue is it to you? I mean genuinely now. I don't want people feigning concern or lack of concern here - I want honest opinions.
It's important, but I believe the best way it can be handled is through charity.  Of all people, Bill Gates has done a lot to help Africa.

The problem I have with government help is that it doesn't allow people to donate money as they personally want to, and it turns programs into political fodder.

Here's an example: there was a time when the U.S. funded contraceptive efforts in Africa, but after Catholic special interest groups pushed this administration to do so, the government stopped funding anything in connection with birth control.  Nowadays, a lot of government funding is sent to unrealistic programs that emphasize abstinence where it is simply not applicable.

If we stopped all government-funded foreign aid programs, then individuals could use the money saved to fund programs they personally agreed with, and politics wouldn't play as big a part in aid.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina

usmarine2005 wrote:

Stealth42o wrote:

I hope they find a lot of oil in Darfur or something so we will go help out.
Hate to break it to you, but there is a shit load of diamonds in Africa.  That happens to be the one of the biggest problems in Liberia.
Yes, it's true, but Sudan is full of oil.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-11-21 16:35:23)

Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6438
What we need is an effective way for getting them money and supplies. So much charitey money is wasted because it gets used on stuff like arranging mettings on how it ought to be spent. With a centralised internation chariety whatever you would call it the money given could be more effectively used, this would improve living conditions but only in the short term. Another thing that needs to be done is establish more effective govrnments and at that more money is needed than had so that creates another problem, like they need police to enforce taxes but they aren't getting any income so they cannot pay people to enforce taxation.
acidkiller187
Member
+123|6600

RoccoDW wrote:

acidkiller187 wrote:

Dear Mr.Poe Have you ever been to Africa My guess Is NOOOOOOOOOO We have tried to help those people so many times But the fact of the matter is they don't learn Give them food give them land to plant there own crops give them medicine give them all that shit help them get off there feet after the first good crop comes along and it's plowed down the bastards get lazy and expect us to help again fuck that fuck them let the assholes starve all there doing to Africa witch is such a beautiful country is fuck it up and I'm tiered of people that think they know what is going on over there fuck your CNN your BBC all that is a load oF BS anyway And i hope this sinks into your skull Africa will always be fucked no matter what ask any red blooded SOUTH AFRICAN THEY WILL Say THE SAME THING PEACE AND GOOD DAY
Nope, dont agree. I must not be red blooded since i believe the place has a lot going for it actually. There is a lot of shit and life is worth very litte but its worth trying. In recent times i've been to namibia, kenya, mozambique, zaire and malawi and in each of those countries i've met some of the most genuine and friendly people i have ever met. I have seen new developments and business thriving. I can go on for a while but dont really thin u deserve that much of my time

I cant stand racist shits like you who give South Africans a bad name. You think back to the good old apartheid days and wish you could be there again. When the black man called you "baas" and stayed in his place. When whites had everything and blacks were not allowed on the streets after 7pm. You still believe the shit your parents/education system/vootrekkers/whatever drummed into you about being superior to the majority around you. People like u dont belong in Africa, stay out and make your life elsewhere. Everyone's enttiled to their opinion but dont try and speak for the rest of us!
Wow you went to Africa for a view months met a few black people who were nice to you cause you probably gave them some money and know you think it's a cool place you didn't read every thing i said did you, or you did but you got ADD i guess. I said it's a beautiful place and the fact of the matter is that Africa doesn't need your help your charity whatever it is you want to give them cause it will sort itself out in time. And on an immaturity scale of 1-10 of children posting in this thread I'll rate a 10 [jonsimon] [Dec45]- look guys it's time for you guys to climb in bed so that me and your mom can spend some quality time okay I'm bringing some friends over so that we can satisfy all of there needs  I don't have anything against you Poe You sound like a kind hearted person but you have not seen the stuff I've seen and i will find some and post them for you and then you can judge for yourself

PS. Oh and ROCCO you can go fuck yourself or you can masturbate to me and my friends fucking [jonsimon] [Dec45] there mothers PEACE
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

What we need is an effective way for getting them money and supplies. So much charitey money is wasted because it gets used on stuff like arranging mettings on how it ought to be spent. With a centralised internation chariety whatever you would call it the money given could be more effectively used, this would improve living conditions but only in the short term. Another thing that needs to be done is establish more effective govrnments and at that more money is needed than had so that creates another problem, like they need police to enforce taxes but they aren't getting any income so they cannot pay people to enforce taxation.
Actually, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is very efficient.  It's usually organizations like the U.N. that are less efficient.  As with many things, the private sector tends to do a better job than the government.

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