BF2S Forums Dark Matter causeing our universe to expand?

cpt.fass1 wrote:

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/hubble-telescope-makes-new-discovery/20061116174709990006?ncid=NWS00010000000001

god?

Nope its jesus lol

hmm.. generally it's the rebels who fight for the republic, maybe you meant the empire per chance?

If it were god it would be called Light Energy. Not Dark Energy.
Unless god is evil !

cpt.fass1 wrote:

So basically it's somewhat proof that the explosion of a supernovia is what causes space to expained and not collapse on itself due to gravity..
I'm not really too much into the whole "Space" and where we come from stuff so I was hopeing for someone who was to expaine theory's a bit better.

In theory, my theory anyhow, the universe expanding would eventually lose the ability to sustain it's momentum. It would thin itself out so much from expanding, that it will eventualy start being pulled back into itself. When that happens, all the mass gets pulled back into the center, until it can't be contained any further. Then....

Big bang all over again. Then everything gets created, again.

The question still remains:

What created the stuff in the first place? And if my theory holds, how many times has it happened? And if energy can neither be created nor destroyed, simply transferred, what the hell was I before I entered this shell? Or the last time I was in the universe before it imploded.

My head hurts, thanks guys.

The one problem with dark matter is that it cannot be measured and will never be proven. Many scientists just use it to explain the big bang, expansion of the universe, etc. Another theory that is getting bigger is the Zero POint Field. It is the cumulative energy from the fluctuations in the wavelengths of all electromagnetic/light waves. It has been proven and explains many things like inertia and expansion. This of course is a basic explanation.  Anyway, we will probably never know EVERYTHING, until we die....that is

max

Fav quote:
“Cosmologists dubbed the force "dark energy," and ever since they've been trying to figure out what it is.”  Are they serious?  We don’t know what it is, let’s label it. If they don't even know what they've discovered, how can they know it's the center of the universe? 

Next fav quote:
“Dark energy could be some property of space itself, which is what Einstein was thinking of when he proposed it. Or it could be something akin to an electromagnetic field pushing on the universe. And then there's the possibility that the whole thing is caused by some hitherto undiscovered wrinkle in the laws of gravity.”  Or in other words: we don’t know what the hell to think.

Is God the center of the universe?  Who knows, I haven’t been there.  I’d lean towards no.  If the center of the universe is comprised of energy, then definitely no.  God is not energy, He is a spirit. And as Creator, He would be distinct from what He created.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-11-17 10:45:39)

cpt.fass1 wrote:

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/hubble-telescope-makes-new-discovery/20061116174709990006?ncid=NWS00010000000001


A run down of the artical is that scientist belive they found the center of the universe which causes the universe to expand. What are your feeling on this and would that be god?

Dark Matter and Dark energy are completely different things, FYI.

If you look at the univserse its almost like a rubberband.  You put stuff into a rubberband and it get bigger just like the matter that keeps filling  the universe.  As we take stuff out of the rubberband it starts to get smaller, but matter cannot be destroyed, so it would not  get smaller.

"He and several colleagues used the Hubble to observe 23 supernovae - exploding white dwarf stars - so distant that their light took more than half the history of the universe to reach the orbiting telescope."-

Damn, our universe is fucking huge.  Now, I want to know if there is anything outside the universe.  My mind cannot simply conceive the fact that the universe just ends.  Not to mention if this proves how the universe expands, there must be room for it to expand, so is there something beyond the universe?

Last edited by eagles1106 (2006-11-17 12:45:48)

MaximaRX wrote:

The one problem with dark matter is that it cannot be measured and will never be proven. Many scientists just use it to explain the big bang, expansion of the universe, etc. Another theory that is getting bigger is the Zero POint Field. It is the cumulative energy from the fluctuations in the wavelengths of all electromagnetic/light waves. It has been proven and explains many things like inertia and expansion. This of course is a basic explanation.  Anyway, we will probably never know EVERYTHING, until we die....that is

max

Dark matter can be measured. It is measured by the effects it exerts, most specificly its gravitational attraction. This can be observed using gravitational lensing effects which give a direct measure of the presense of mass.
There is a lot of debate about dark matter. It accounts for more than 10x as much mass of the universe as normal matter though, so there's a lot of it.

Dark energy is totally different to dark matter.

The original idea of dark energy is just a force to counter balance the effects of gravity, which would make the universe collapse in on itself. Einstein called this cosmological constant LAMDA (I've writted it in caps because it is written as a capital lamda). Einstein regarded this as his 'greatest mistake', probably because he blames this theory for being the reason it wasn't him who found out the universe is expanding (it was Hubble (the man not the telescope)).

The existence of this cosmological constant is regarded as practically a certainty as it's effects have been observed in numerous studies, especially in quantum field theory, where it is known as vacuum energy. Unfortunately Einsteins equations don't fit in with the results of any studies into this vacuum energy. The term cosmological constant has all but disappeared these days, because many theorists have suggested that this so-called cosmological constant may change with time, which doesn't make it much of a constant.

The discovery of dark energy has brought many theories into question, such as the Hawking-Hartle no boundary proposal (one I'm quite fond of because it eliminates the need (or even possibility) for any sort of creator - the proposal has since been modified by Hawking and Turok to accomodate this). This is because these theories revolve around a concept that K>0, which would mean the universe has a small positive curvature. Dark matter makes a hyperbolic universe look far more probable (K<0, small negative curvature).

But given that all these equations are to do with the total mass-energy content of the entire universe, I don't think we'll be getting anything like a definative answer anytime soon.

Krauss (2001) explains dark matter and dark energy in quite a lot of depth.

Bertster7 wrote:

eagles1106 wrote:

"He and several colleagues used the Hubble to observe 23 supernovae - exploding white dwarf stars - so distant that their light took more than half the history of the universe to reach the orbiting telescope."-

Damn, our universe is fucking huge.  Now, I want to know if there is anything outside the universe.  My mind cannot simply conceive the fact that the universe just ends.  Not to mention if this proves how the universe expands, there must be room for it to expand, so is there something beyond the universe?

Since the universe is both all of space and all of time, probably not. But maybe - who knows.

Many people seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of the universes existence not merely as matter, but as the 4-dimensional spacetime (although string theory disagrees, there are loads of dimensions in string theory) that the matter exists in. Beyond the universe there is no space and no time and therefore nothing, probably.

Some physicists have suggested that the universe is a sort of wraparound entity, and leaving it on one side would mean you re-enter on the other (a bit like pac man), others have suggested that it doesn't have an edge (Hawkings (and Hartles - or in the more recent version Turoks) no boundary proposal is one of these).

Hmm.....thinking about the wrap around universe, maybe we are seeing the same galaxies because of this and not a billion something lightyears away in an outward motion.  We keep seeing through one side and entering the other and it just keeps on going.  As we look farther itll just be the same thing over and over again.

Stingray24 wrote:

Fav quote:
“Cosmologists dubbed the force "dark energy," and ever since they've been trying to figure out what it is.”  Are they serious?  We don’t know what it is, let’s label it. If they don't even know what they've discovered, how can they know it's the center of the universe? 

Next fav quote:
“Dark energy could be some property of space itself, which is what Einstein was thinking of when he proposed it. Or it could be something akin to an electromagnetic field pushing on the universe. And then there's the possibility that the whole thing is caused by some hitherto undiscovered wrinkle in the laws of gravity.”  Or in other words: we don’t know what the hell to think.

Is God the center of the universe?  Who knows, I haven’t been there.  I’d lean towards no.  If the center of the universe is comprised of energy, then definitely no.  God is not energy, He is a spirit. And as Creator, He would be distinct from what He created.

Please, just admit that you can't comprehend it.  You're undermining scientists who are much smarter than all of us and have dedicated their lives to studying the universe and it's origins. 

You THINK god is a spirit, you mean... funny, you read a book a homeless guy with 70 IQ could understand, and suddenly you THINK you KNOW more about the universe than people who have, as I say above, dedicated and sacrificed so much time in their lives to learning about it.  Ignorance is a sin... any religious person should know that.