Unfortunately, most of you are forgetting the tens of thousands of years of hunting, which involved killing animals with rocks, spears and a multitude of other primitive weapons which cause the animal to die in agony. You're also forgetting how animals kill each other. I'm not sure getting mauled by a lion is any better then being stabbed by a matador.
They didnt have the choice to do so, they had nothing else than rocks. Yes it was cruel but now that we can avoid it, there is no reason not to do so.
Other then the fact that it completely separates us from nature. But, I guess we're relying on that globalized mentality where humans don't know how to kill, clean and prepare food... They rely on other people to do that for them. I don't think anyone in here condemning the death of an animal by stabbing, is the type that could skin an animal, cut it open, remove its organs and cook it. I seriously doubt any of the people condemning this, are the types that are seriously grateful of the fact their shit's composition is made up of the tears of dead animals, nor are they appreciative of nature that asks this of us and them.-=raska=- wrote:
They didnt have the choice to do so, they had nothing else than rocks. Yes it was cruel but now that we can avoid it, there is no reason not to do so.
Last edited by Dec45 (2006-11-12 15:32:12)
Yeah, you want to bet. Bring me any animal you want. I'll skin, gut, cook and eat it (well, the edible ones anyhow).Dec45 wrote:
Other then the fact that it completely separates us from nature. But, I guess we're relying on that globalized mentality where humans don't know how to kill, clean and prepare food... They rely on other people to do that for them. I don't think anyone in here condemning the death of an animal by stabbing, is the type that could skin an animal, cut it open, remove its organs and cook it. I seriously doubt any of the people condemning this, are the types that are seriously grateful of the fact their shit's composition is made up of the tears of dead animals, nor are they appreciative of nature that asks this of us and them.-=raska=- wrote:
They didnt have the choice to do so, they had nothing else than rocks. Yes it was cruel but now that we can avoid it, there is no reason not to do so.
I still think bullfighting is cruel and unnecesary.
Well you are definitely the exception to the rule... But might I ask what animals you would do this to, and how you would kill it?Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yeah, you want to bet. Bring me any animal you want. I'll skin, gut, cook and eat it (well, the edible ones anyhow).Dec45 wrote:
Other then the fact that it completely separates us from nature. But, I guess we're relying on that globalized mentality where humans don't know how to kill, clean and prepare food... They rely on other people to do that for them. I don't think anyone in here condemning the death of an animal by stabbing, is the type that could skin an animal, cut it open, remove its organs and cook it. I seriously doubt any of the people condemning this, are the types that are seriously grateful of the fact their shit's composition is made up of the tears of dead animals, nor are they appreciative of nature that asks this of us and them.-=raska=- wrote:
They didnt have the choice to do so, they had nothing else than rocks. Yes it was cruel but now that we can avoid it, there is no reason not to do so.
I still think bullfighting is cruel and unnecesary.
Like I said, any animal you want. And how would I kill it - that would depend on the animal, but as a general rule, as fast as possible - fish, wack them on the head and/or break their necks. Chickens, break their neck. Anything bigger, I'd go for a good clean shot to the head and then a slit of the throat as quickly as possible.Dec45 wrote:
Well you are definitely the exception to the rule... But might I ask what animals you would do this to, and how you would kill it?Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yeah, you want to bet. Bring me any animal you want. I'll skin, gut, cook and eat it (well, the edible ones anyhow).Dec45 wrote:
Other then the fact that it completely separates us from nature. But, I guess we're relying on that globalized mentality where humans don't know how to kill, clean and prepare food... They rely on other people to do that for them. I don't think anyone in here condemning the death of an animal by stabbing, is the type that could skin an animal, cut it open, remove its organs and cook it. I seriously doubt any of the people condemning this, are the types that are seriously grateful of the fact their shit's composition is made up of the tears of dead animals, nor are they appreciative of nature that asks this of us and them.
I still think bullfighting is cruel and unnecesary.
And, acutally, you make me sick if you think that anyone that knows how to properly kill, skin and gut any animal would support bullfighting.
Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2006-11-12 16:10:58)
This is assuming you own a chicken coop and can catch one in it. Well if you feel you're confident enough about your shot to hit the head every time, by all means. Unfortunately, for most of your average Joe's can't shoot an animal in the head from any significant distance. Also breaking an animals neck will not always kill because it requires a degree of knowledge on where to break the neck, for death. Nothing you suggested is something most people can do.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Like I said, any animal you want. And how would I kill it - that would depend on the animal, but as a general rule, as fast as possible - fish, wake them on the head and/or break their necks. Chickens, break their neck. Anything bigger, I'd go for a good clean shot to the head and then a slit of the throat as quickly as possible.Dec45 wrote:
Well you are definitely the exception to the rule... But might I ask what animals you would do this to, and how you would kill it?Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yeah, you want to bet. Bring me any animal you want. I'll skin, gut, cook and eat it (well, the edible ones anyhow).
I still think bullfighting is cruel and unnecesary.
My point is, more then majority of the people I've encountered in my lifetime don't give a split second of thought into the path a hamburger came from, when they sit down to eat McDonald's. Yet, many people will argue that stabbing an animal is inhumane, when it is in fact been in our nature for longer then any of us can comprehend. They completely take for granted the sacrifice of animals, yet are quick to fight for their rights. Society is just fucking hilarious to me.
Last edited by Dec45 (2006-11-12 16:07:58)
can i just say now that all animals killed for food are killed via a very powerfull (and quick) shock to the neck its fast doesnt waist resources.
species killed by the hand (sometime quite literally) of kr@cker and subsequently eaten or traded for other meatsDec45 wrote:
Other then the fact that it completely separates us from nature. But, I guess we're relying on that globalized mentality where humans don't know how to kill, clean and prepare food... They rely on other people to do that for them. I don't think anyone in here condemning the death of an animal by stabbing, is the type that could skin an animal, cut it open, remove its organs and cook it. I seriously doubt any of the people condemning this, are the types that are seriously grateful of the fact their shit's composition is made up of the tears of dead animals, nor are they appreciative of nature that asks this of us and them.-=raska=- wrote:
They didnt have the choice to do so, they had nothing else than rocks. Yes it was cruel but now that we can avoid it, there is no reason not to do so.
deer, pig (wild and farmed), turkey, chicken, squirrel, lotsa fish, dove, pigeon (ok i didn't eat this one, found it at work with a broken wing and nasty infection, smelled like ass, so i broke it's neck), crabs, cattle (loaded on the truck and taken to the slaughterhouse, hammer and spike to the brain pan, instant drop), gator
kr@cker does not likey the bullfight
disgustingly slow death
Exactly... We systematically kill animals and remove our need to respect their sacrifice, so we can systematically scarf it down without second thought.Madhadda1 wrote:
can i just say now that all animals killed for food are killed via a very powerfull (and quick) shock to the neck its fast doesnt waist resources.
Have you ever boiled anything alive? Have you ever shot anything center mass? Certainly with that kind of record, I would imagine you have... Surely you acknowledge these animals suffered quite horribly for enough time to be noted. Out of all the animals you killed and prepared, none of them suffered?kr@cker wrote:
species killed by the hand (sometime quite literally) of kr@cker and subsequently eaten or traded for other meatsDec45 wrote:
Other then the fact that it completely separates us from nature. But, I guess we're relying on that globalized mentality where humans don't know how to kill, clean and prepare food... They rely on other people to do that for them. I don't think anyone in here condemning the death of an animal by stabbing, is the type that could skin an animal, cut it open, remove its organs and cook it. I seriously doubt any of the people condemning this, are the types that are seriously grateful of the fact their shit's composition is made up of the tears of dead animals, nor are they appreciative of nature that asks this of us and them.-=raska=- wrote:
They didnt have the choice to do so, they had nothing else than rocks. Yes it was cruel but now that we can avoid it, there is no reason not to do so.
deer, pig (wild and farmed), turkey, chicken, squirrel, lotsa fish, dove, pigeon (ok i didn't eat this one, found it at work with a broken wing and nasty infection, smelled like ass, so i broke it's neck), crabs, cattle (loaded on the truck and taken to the slaughterhouse, hammer and spike to the brain pan, instant drop), gator
kr@cker does not likey the bullfight
disgustingly slow death
Sh1fty2k5 wrote:
WTF? They're still alive, this is the fucking EU, they should be bombed!
well no shit they suffered some, i killed them, they died. bullfighting is done for spectacle, they target the neck muscles first so they bull has difficulty raising it's head, then they go for the kill but only after the crowd has had it's fill. yes i have wrought pain upon my dinner, but it is no more pain than any other species in the food chain has suffered at the claws and fangs of it's predators, and most of the time it is far quicker than what happens in nature, have you ever seen how long it takes a pride of lions to kill a wildebeast, first hamstringing, then crushing the throat over a span of minutes?
edit: i take part in elton john's circle of life without shame, i have incisors and canines for tearing meat, my nose and eyes are oriented in a forward position just as 99.999999% of other predators are, i (and you) suffer ailments when deprived of meat such as osteoperhosis and iron deficiencies.
edit: i take part in elton john's circle of life without shame, i have incisors and canines for tearing meat, my nose and eyes are oriented in a forward position just as 99.999999% of other predators are, i (and you) suffer ailments when deprived of meat such as osteoperhosis and iron deficiencies.
Last edited by kr@cker (2006-11-12 16:34:53)
Someone mentioned before that the idea is to kill the bull as quickly as possible. So I guess this is an example of how not to do it. I'm no expert on bullfighting so I don't know.kr@cker wrote:
kr@cker does not likey the bullfight
disgustingly slow death
I do know that when I kill an animal I always try to do is as quickly and painlessly as possible. But it doesn't always go according to plan since they do have a mind of their own. Even with these best of intentions I'm still KILLING it. I'm not doing it too many favours by killing it quickly.
Bullfighting = cruel and unnecessary IMO. But it's not for me to tell other people that they can't follow their traditions.
bull fighting is modern day gladiator games, if they wanted to slaughter the bull they would do so with a quick shot to the skull
Well that's just my point... Nature shows no mercy to the extent of which an animal has to suffer, nor places a time limit on that suffering. Bullfighting is barbaric in many ways. But humans are barbaric. I personally find myself more disgusted at my observation of our disregard for respect of the animals we eat, then I do the sport of bullfighting. Those fighters respect what the bull does and they do put their lives on the line to do it. Bullfighters do die.kr@cker wrote:
well no shit they suffered some, i killed them, they died. bullfighting is done for spectacle, they target the neck muscles first so they bull has difficulty raising it's head, then they go for the kill but only after the crowd has had it's fill. yes i have wrought pain upon my dinner, but it is no more pain than any other species in the food chain has suffered at the claws and fangs of it's predators, and most of the time it is far quicker than what happens in nature, have you ever seen how long it takes a pride of lions to kill a wildebeast, first hamstringing, then crushing the throat over a span of minutes?
lets go all have a burger
Did you not read what I said? I admit that this sport is kind of sad, but it is a lot better than you guys and this video make it out to be. As I said before, the matador in the video SUCKED. If you notice, the crowd is NOT cheering, because the faster a matador kills the bull the more highly he is regarded. The best matadors kill instantly. Also, they did not cut off the ear while it was alive. It was just kicking, but it was dead. Another thing, that hasn't been pointed out yet, is what about hunting? I fail to see how this is any worse. The bull has very little feeling in his shoulders, and if he's facing a good matador, he is killed instantly. Oh, and one more thing, the thing that makes me laugh: Some of you say matadors are pussies. At least the matadors have the balls to get in the ring with their victim, and kill it by sword. So let's get this straight:kr@cker wrote:
bull fighting is modern day gladiator games, if they wanted to slaughter the bull they would do so with a quick shot to the skull
Matadors are pussies because:
1. They get in a ring with the animal they're about to kill, within feet, while very few hunters could say the same.
2. Good matadors kill the bull instantly, while once again, very few hunters can say that they always kill instantly.
3. Matadors kill the bull in close combat with a sword, giving the animal a chance to fight; hunters sit around waiting until they can see a deer and then they kill it from 100 yards away with a pull of the finger.
4. The meat from the bull is eaten that night, usually by orphans that it is donated to.
In short, I would rather go to a bullfight than go hunting.
Last edited by Homeschtar (2006-11-12 17:37:22)
i would love to see a video of a bull killed instantly by a matador
and if you think hunters are pussies than you have never seen one hunt a wild boar with hounds and a knife
(been on a couple of those hunts but haven't gotten a kill yet), not to mention all the nasty shit you encounter while stalking your kill (everglades at sundown= bad hoodoo)
hunting rounds are designed the exact opposite of what you find in military/law enforcement, "hard ball" and "full metal jacket" type shit. they expand and shatter on impact to damage as much tissue as possible as quick as possible, to kill as fast as possible.
and if you think hunters are pussies than you have never seen one hunt a wild boar with hounds and a knife
(been on a couple of those hunts but haven't gotten a kill yet), not to mention all the nasty shit you encounter while stalking your kill (everglades at sundown= bad hoodoo)
hunting rounds are designed the exact opposite of what you find in military/law enforcement, "hard ball" and "full metal jacket" type shit. they expand and shatter on impact to damage as much tissue as possible as quick as possible, to kill as fast as possible.
I have never heard anyone say a full metal jacket does more tissue damage then a hollow point bullet. I've also never heard anyone say that full metal jacket isn't used in military/law enforcement.kr@cker wrote:
i would love to see a video of a bull killed instantly by a matador
and if you think hunters are pussies than you have never seen one hunt a wild boar with hounds and a knife
(been on a couple of those hunts but haven't gotten a kill yet), not to mention all the nasty shit you encounter while stalking your kill (everglades at sundown= bad hoodoo)
hunting rounds are designed the exact opposite of what you find in military/law enforcement, "hard ball" and "full metal jacket" type shit. they expand and shatter on impact to damage as much tissue as possible as quick as possible, to kill as fast as possible.
So you don't condone the stabbing of a bull in a fight, but you condone the stabbing of a wild boar by knife?
kr@cker wrote:
i would love to see a video of a bull killed instantly by a matador
There you go.
Hunting a wild boar with a knife and hounds is more respectable than a rifle hunter I guess, but I seriously doubt you can kill a boar instantly like a matador can kill a bull instantly, so like Dec45 said above me, you are worse than the matadors that you are protesting in this situation.kr@cker wrote:
and if you think hunters are pussies than you have never seen one hunt a wild boar with hounds and a knife
(been on a couple of those hunts but haven't gotten a kill yet), not to mention all the nasty shit you encounter while stalking your kill (everglades at sundown= bad hoodoo)
Not all hunters use that type of ammunition. And even those that do, the death is still rarely as instant as the death of a bull by a matador's sword. And I know, the deer you shoot does not suffer before hand, but those colored spears sticking out of the bulls back do not hurt it that much. The end of the spears are short and the bulls skin is thick, so to you and me it would be just like little needles sticking in our skin.kr@cker wrote:
hunting rounds are designed the exact opposite of what you find in military/law enforcement, "hard ball" and "full metal jacket" type shit. they expand and shatter on impact to damage as much tissue as possible as quick as possible, to kill as fast as possible.
So to all those protesting, in general matadors have to be smarter and more skilled than your average hunter. The last thing they are is pussy.
That is some seriously fucking disgusting shit. Now, I'm not a vegetarian but I am for treating animals with respect. Those matadors and everyone who enjoy watching a bullfight should be slowly tortured to death and then being put through what the bulls are put through. Is this how low us humans have to go to just for some entertainment, slaughter innocent animals for some crappy entertainment.. this shit isn't even entertainment.
Yes, actually.cospengle wrote:
Thread title: This is sick. What did you expect, a Kylie Minogue video clip?
Also, does anyone honestly think life is any better for American rodeo bulls?
Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-11-12 18:53:42)
While I hunt, I do not Bow hunt for this exact reason. It is slow and painful way of dying.
Ok, so I miss a direct kill, that deer will go through about 30 seconds of pain and suffering while I take my second shot to the head. That bull was coughing blood up and was still moving around far more than that.
Ok, so I miss a direct kill, that deer will go through about 30 seconds of pain and suffering while I take my second shot to the head. That bull was coughing blood up and was still moving around far more than that.
If you mean not getting impaled to death? Yes.Bubbalo wrote:
Also, does anyone honestly think life is any better for American rodeo bulls?
Last edited by Snipedya14 (2006-11-12 19:00:32)
Couldn't pass up an opportunity to talk about America, huh?Bubbalo wrote:
Yes, actually.cospengle wrote:
Thread title: This is sick. What did you expect, a Kylie Minogue video clip?
Also, does anyone honestly think life is any better for American rodeo bulls?