BF2S Forums Who Killed Little Mohammed?

Phantom2828 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Phantom2828 wrote:

Whats wrong is him and other liberals bitching about how we accidently kill people in Iraq yet right here is saying that its basicly OK to hide behind children.

I said that that is what the Palestinians are doing. It was a statement of fact. It's not the nicest tactic in the world. It is a smart tactic however. The reason it gets my goat in Iraq is the same reason it annoys me in Israel -> the cause is unjust.

So killing people that have the most hatefull Ideology on the planet is an unjust cause? where have I been for the past 10 years.

Killing people who want their homes and lands back and to have their own country? The Palestinian conflict is territorial, not religious or fascist or communist.

PS I'm an isolationist/protectionist. Regime change in countries 1000s of miles away who pose little or no threat don't float my boat.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 15:40:51)

IG-Calibre wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Phantom2828 wrote:

Wow Cam just wow.
You call conservatives heartless war mongers look what you just wrote.

That's what it takes to win. My views on war may not be that of a typical liberal. If the cause is just then do everything, bar indiscriminate killing of civilians, to win.

man that's pretty fucking callous - you say that the civilian populous deaths through retaliation is acceptable in terms of propaganda, yet there should be no indiscriminate killing of civilians - hmmmmmmmm

If you want to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs. The opposition should adapt and fight smarter if they don't want to kill innocents. The blood is on the hands of the opposition. They shouldn't engage in something that will kill civilians. The unbeatable beauty of guerrilla warfare.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 15:52:00)

Phantom2828 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Phantom2828 wrote:

So killing people that have the most hatefull Ideology on the planet is an unjust cause? where have I been for the past 10 years.

Killing people who want their homes and lands back and to have their own country? The Palestinian conflict is territorial, not religious or fascist or communist.

LOL you really think they just want their homes back. Even if that was the case AT FIRST it has surely become much more than that. That "Just" cause you speak of has been hijacked by radical Islam and filled it with hate and brainwashing.
Iraq that is a different story. I will just say what I always say. People that have no regard for the life of their people (terrorists in Iraq) are not simply fighting for their homes. If they were they would not hide behind children and in highly populated areas and hospitals.

I would certainly remind my kids of the atrocities and crimes of the Israelis if I were Palestinian. You make me laugh because USA is currently in the throes of '9/11: NEVER FORGET' fever, exactly how you feel about that is how every Palestinian feels about Israel. Empathise for a fucking minute. 'Brainwashing'? The oppression they experience at the hands of the Israelis on a daily basis makes 'brain-washing' unnecessary. Some indoctrination does occur but Palestine has been one of the most secular regions in the middle east to date (because of the fact their struggle is a national one, not some ideological one) - they have a democratic infrastructure FFS. Your assessment of the situation there is a little warped: a little FOX-influenced I might imagine....

Iraq: the homes comment didn't pertain to Iraq. Iraq is a complete shitfest start to finish. A complete failure as I predicted before they even voted on the UN resolution way back when. That's a civil war and everyone needs to pull the fuck out so they can sort themselves out.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 15:50:56)

IG-Calibre wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

man that's pretty fucking callous - you say that the civilian populous deaths through retaliation is acceptable in terms of propaganda, yet there should be no indiscriminate killing of civilians - hmmmmmmmm

If you want to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs. The opposition should adapt and fight smarter if they don't want to kill innocents.

aye right, away and have a word with your self - break a few eggs - STFU man that's embarrassing to hear an Irishman hold human life with such scant regard - what if the few eggs broken were your own family members? would that be the price you would be prepared pay for some propaganda?

Look - the opposing army SHOULDN'T retaliate against the civilians. What would you have the guerrillas do? Walk into the streets with their hands up? Be serious. The civilian deaths are tragic don't get me wrong. It's not the direct  fault of the guerrillas though. I don't consider people to be expendable. I have just been stating what happens when you engage in guerrilla warfare. I condemn the retaliatory attacks on civilians that result from guerrilla tactics.

PS The 'omelette' remark was not meant to be taken that seriously.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 16:04:17)

IG-Calibre wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

aye right, away and have a word with your self - break a few eggs - STFU man that's embarrassing to hear an Irishman hold human life with such scant regard - what if the few eggs broken were your own family members? would that be the price you would be prepared pay for some propaganda?

Look - the opposing army SHOULDN'T retaliate against the civilians. What would you have the guerrillas do? Walk into the streets with their hands up? Be serious. The civilian deaths are tragic don't get me wrong. It's not the direct  fault of the guerrillas though. I don't consider people to be expendable. I have just been stating what happens when you engage in guerrilla warfare. I condemn the retaliatory attacks on civilians that result from guerrilla tactics.

So the guerrillas attack from within a civilian shield, the oppressors attack back and civilians die - the guerrillas walk away shaking their heads Going "dear oh dear thats tragic, but thank god it's not the direct fault of us. but it will look good on the 6 o clock news" *high 5!!! everybody*      Ayeeeeeeeeeeeee Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight mate..

The army shouldn't hit back at civilians. What's your point? I stated the fact that this phenomenon looks well from a propaganda point of view. I don't condone making an attack to illicit a response that results in this situation. To do so would be morally wrong and underhand. You are confusing statements of fact I made earlier as personal opinion.

To reiterate: I don't agree with using the civilian shield to draw attacks that will be useful from a propaganda perspective. I believe in using the civilian shield as just that: a shield or hiding place.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 16:11:45)

IG-Calibre wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

So the guerrillas attack from within a civilian shield, the oppressors attack back and civilians die - the guerrillas walk away shaking their heads Going "dear oh dear thats tragic, but thank god it's not the direct fault of us. but it will look good on the 6 o clock news" *high 5!!! everybody*      Ayeeeeeeeeeeeee Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight mate..

The army shouldn't hit back at civilians. What's your point? I stated the fact that this phenomenon looks well from a propaganda point of view. I don't condone making an attack to illicit a response that results in this situation. To do so would be morally wrong and underhand. You are confusing statements of fact I made earlier as personal opinion.

To reiterate: I don't agree with using the civilian shield to draw attacks that will be useful from a propaganda perspective. I believe in using the civilian shield as just that: a shield or hiding place.

2) They drag Israel into bombing civilians which is valuable in terms of propaganda.

am I miss reading this? are you not cynically justifying the use of a human shield as propaganda? are you not catagorrically saying that the action has intrinsic worth as propaganda currency?

Yes you are misreading this.
The first is my opinion.
The second is a statement of fact about what sometimes happens in Israel. Did the brits ever carpet bomb the bogside? NO. The Brits, love em or hate em, fought cleaner than Israel that's for sure, in very similar battles.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 16:19:48)

CameronPoe wrote:

Phantom2828 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Killing people who want their homes and lands back and to have their own country? The Palestinian conflict is territorial, not religious or fascist or communist.

LOL you really think they just want their homes back. Even if that was the case AT FIRST it has surely become much more than that. That "Just" cause you speak of has been hijacked by radical Islam and filled it with hate and brainwashing.
Iraq that is a different story. I will just say what I always say. People that have no regard for the life of their people (terrorists in Iraq) are not simply fighting for their homes. If they were they would not hide behind children and in highly populated areas and hospitals.

I would certainly remind my kids of the atrocities and crimes of the Israelis if I were Palestinian. You make me laugh because USA is currently in the throes of '9/11: NEVER FORGET' fever, exactly how you feel about that is how every Palestinian feels about Israel. Empathise for a fucking minute. 'Brainwashing'? The oppression they experience at the hands of the Israelis on a daily basis makes 'brain-washing' unnecessary. Some indoctrination does occur but Palestine has been one of the most secular regions in the middle east to date (because of the fact their struggle is a national one, not some ideological one) - they have a democratic infrastructure FFS. Your assessment of the situation there is a little warped: a little FOX-influenced I might imagine....

Iraq: the homes comment didn't pertain to Iraq. Iraq is a complete shitfest start to finish. A complete failure as I predicted before they even voted on the UN resolution way back when. That's a civil war and everyone needs to pull the fuck out so they can sort themselves out.

I think we are both right in ways. You have a point and I have a point.  You have a point about the whole just cause thing, I have a point about its pussy and wrong to hide behind civilians and strap bombs to children.

Ikarti wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:

If Israel had the same disregard for innocent life that Hezbollah did, there would be no Palestine left. PERIOD.

If Israel had the resources the US has without being dependant on another country, there'd be no Palestinians left either. Thankfully, some people here won't let that happen.

Here's the issue.  It is extremely important that America fund Israel, since Iran and Syria fund terrorist groups against Israel.  We consider Israel an ally and for good reason.  They are the closest thing to a friend that we've got in the region.  We can trust Israel far more than say...  Saudi Arabia.  This is why Bush's connections to the Saudi aristocracy are a liability to our security.  If we focused less on the Saudis and more on Israel, we'd have a stronger and more trustworthy ally in the region.

Dude 8 posts in a row is a little excessive - couldnt you just edit the 1st one or quote multiple people in one post?

Turquoise wrote:

Masques wrote:

Should the Southwest USA be given back to Mexico? Spain? Should the whole thing go back to the Native Americans?

Good point...  I think the modern creation of Israel was a major mistake, but now that it is there, there's no getting rid of it.  It is a very powerful nation for its size, and it is the most Western nation in the region.  In order to protect American interests, we must support it.  When push comes to shove, I'd rather be fighting alongside Israel than the Palestinians or any other Islamic group for that matter.

What interests? It appears that US support for Israel has undermined it's position greatly in the Middle East (particuarly with respect to strategic resources). From a purely strategic point of view it makes no sense to support Israel, both for the animosity it generates toward the US and the cost of military aid.

And if you concede that Israel's creation (or it's creation in the Middle East) was a mistake then it makes little sense to not also support some the Arab positions when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I agree that Israel isn't going anywhere (nor should it), but surely you can see the utility (for Israel and the US) of Israel withdrawing to its pre-1967 borders.

Also, Palestinians aren't an "Islamic" group, but rather an Arab ethnic group. After all, the founder of the PLFP (one of the more...successful terror groups in Israel/Palestine), George Habash, was Christian.

CameronPoe wrote:

Phantom2828 wrote:

I hope everyone knows that the Palestinians would have to be around 50 to still be pissed at Israel for taking their land. This just proves how they are brainwashed.
Of course I expect them to take up arms but NOT hide behind children in hospitals in populated areas. I also expect them not to shoot kids for propaganda value

That's right - you're supposed to forget about recent history... silly me. Somebody stole daddy's house and farm but I don't care - it happened fifty years ago!! LOL

You are presuming that the Palestinians shoot kids on a regular basis for propaganda, a point not yet proved and pretty difficult to believe on a widespread basis if you ask me.

So am I suppost to go out and kill japenese because they bombed pearl harbor?

Ikarti wrote:

Woe be to those who dare mention a 9/11 conspiracy though.

lol go on google vid an watch - 911 in plane sight


itl open your eyes to the evil u.s goverment

Lisik wrote:

just to remind to all that before radical Islamic intifada 1.. Palestinians were fine in Israel! there was bus lines from Gaza to tel aviv(till the driver started to run over on nonbelievers), Israel was giving work places to Palestinians(till they start to blow themself for name of god), Israel was trusting Palestinians ambulances(till suiciding bell was found in it), we were fine with theyr kids(till they started to blow) etc etc etc


Israel do not hate Palestinians... Israel just not accept the idea

Mideast is an Islamic region, so Israel is a foreign matter! same as in medicine - the foreign matter have to be operated!

and still we giving them water, gas, electricy...

How kind... is that the same water you took from them in 1948? LOL. It's all give, give, give with Israel isn't it? Apparently taking hilltops in the west bank to create new towns illegally is now giving... LOL

Palestinians want their territory back - religion is just an incidental matter that is by no means the driver... Israel could have had peace if you had acceded to Yasser's request for full sovereignty over the Haram-Al Sharif, Israel agreed to meet all other conditions but this single solitary symbolic one.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-23 00:50:10)