i still buy magazines even though i could read them on the shelves. plus i cant stand overstuffed execs that obviously are barely surviving. but i generally dont buy music on cd's or mp3 since i have sirius satellite radioSuperSlowYo wrote:
lots of smaller bands are getting breaks because of sharing free music on lame sights like myspace... file sharing can help a smaller band spread their music...ghettoperson wrote:
When bands/people make a record, they have to borrow huge amounts of money from the record company to pay for it. This hopefully comes back in the sales of records. By downloading their CD's, you're essentially preventing them from being able to make another CD. Of course, this isn't the case with bands/people that are already massive, and have shit loads of money.
maybe we should ban libraries too... they are information sharing at no cost and that hasnt stopped book publishing... bottom line is sharing music hurts nobody except the rich that is why we are hearing all this booohooo'in.. who do you think funds the RIAA?? could it be the music industry? hmmm
I love music but I don't have $30-40 to spend on an album.
To buy the CDs I also have to catch a bus then a train to Melbourne to go to the only store that sells CDs and Vinyls that I like, this comes to over $20.
Any band will know that their top priority is to make good music not to make money, when you buy a CD or Record you're forgeting that it's the rich music companies that get most of the profits, it's called CAPITALISM, those companys need to make a profit.
If I ever have a band I won't give a shit whether people buy my CDs or download my music of Kazaa, As long as people are listening to my music I will be pleased. The problem with the music "industry" nowadays is that they realise a lot of crap to make money, music isn't about money, music is about music and any artist or recording company that puts money over making good music has corrupt morals.
To buy the CDs I also have to catch a bus then a train to Melbourne to go to the only store that sells CDs and Vinyls that I like, this comes to over $20.
Any band will know that their top priority is to make good music not to make money, when you buy a CD or Record you're forgeting that it's the rich music companies that get most of the profits, it's called CAPITALISM, those companys need to make a profit.
If I ever have a band I won't give a shit whether people buy my CDs or download my music of Kazaa, As long as people are listening to my music I will be pleased. The problem with the music "industry" nowadays is that they realise a lot of crap to make money, music isn't about money, music is about music and any artist or recording company that puts money over making good music has corrupt morals.
But bands also need to make a living making music. The rich music companies spend millions recording, duplicating, and marketing a band's album so that the band gets radio play and can sell records. The record companies also give bands money for touring so they can afford a comfortable bus to live in. If the record company doesn't get any of their investment back, the band won't have the money to record or tour in the future, and the band won't be able to make a living. 1% of signed bands turn a profit. If you're not buying albums from that 1%, big deal. But if you're stealing music from the thousands of bands that are signed but not turning a profit for the record company, you are honestly jeopardizing that band's livelihood.TeamZephyr wrote:
Any band will know that their top priority is to make good music not to make money, when you buy a CD or Record you're forgeting that it's the rich music companies that get most of the profits, it's called CAPITALISM, those companys need to make a profit.
and how many really good bands can you that have been dropped by a label cause an album didnt sell as hot? not many... and even on the chance this does happen... theres like a billion struggling independent labels ready to sign any act they can... congrats on being a slave to the whole consumer process but id rather lie, cheat and STEAL....kilgoretrout wrote:
But most clubs in the country don't go through ticketmaster. It is true that bands make most of their money from touring and merch sales, but if a band doesn't sell enough albums, they get dropped from their label. If they get dropped, they won't have the tour support money that came from their label and won't be able to tour anymore. Plus, if a band gets dropped from a label, they won't get paid as much money on tour.SuperSlowYo wrote:
yeah everyone loves ticketmaster... they hardly gouge the consumer with their obscene service chargesbubbass wrote:
True, but, the record company is making all the money from that. If you want to support your favorite band, go see them live. That's where they make the majority of their money.
The fact of the matter is, you're stealing money from bands when you download music and don't buy the album. You can jusify it however you want, but you're stealing. That's not to say I don't share music. I share it with my friends and I'll download songs sometimes to see if an album is worth buying. If it's worth buying, I will. If not, you can buy the singles on iTunes and delete the crap that's not worth buying.
as long as software companies keep on selling there stuff for outrageous prices and profit the urge to download the free version of it is on the rise i mean people are downloading working versions of windows xp.
Not many my ass... How about the Format? Interventions & Lullabies sold extremely well for a debut release, but they still got dropped. Why would you want to sign wtih one of the billion independent labels that are struggling? How are they going to give a band money to tour? I think bands that work extremely hard and make great music deserve to be paid for it and deserve the opportunity to keep making more albums. If you disagree, that's fine.SuperSlowYo wrote:
and how many really good bands can you that have been dropped by a label cause an album didnt sell as hot? not many... and even on the chance this does happen... theres like a billion struggling independent labels ready to sign any act they can... congrats on being a slave to the whole consumer process but id rather lie, cheat and STEAL....kilgoretrout wrote:
But most clubs in the country don't go through ticketmaster. It is true that bands make most of their money from touring and merch sales, but if a band doesn't sell enough albums, they get dropped from their label. If they get dropped, they won't have the tour support money that came from their label and won't be able to tour anymore. Plus, if a band gets dropped from a label, they won't get paid as much money on tour.SuperSlowYo wrote:
yeah everyone loves ticketmaster... they hardly gouge the consumer with their obscene service charges
The fact of the matter is, you're stealing money from bands when you download music and don't buy the album. You can jusify it however you want, but you're stealing. That's not to say I don't share music. I share it with my friends and I'll download songs sometimes to see if an album is worth buying. If it's worth buying, I will. If not, you can buy the singles on iTunes and delete the crap that's not worth buying.
ok first of all ive never heard of the format until just now so i went and illegally downloaded their music and im soooo glad i never wasted money on that im sure your gf loves it but ill pass... and not only did i listen to them but i also read about them a little and it seems that the reason they were dropped from their labels was because they didnt want to conform... they chose to leave basically when they decided to stick to their musical principals... oh a quote from their myspace says... "kept their fans updated via "The Living Room" section of their Web site, where they've posted acoustic versions of Dog Problems songs to tide over their growing legion of listenersand somehow without MTV or radio play, their fanbase has grown exponentially" ... so essentially filesharing kept this band alive...kilgoretrout wrote:
Not many my ass... How about the Format? Interventions & Lullabies sold extremely well for a debut release, but they still got dropped. Why would you want to sign wtih one of the billion independent labels that are struggling? How are they going to give a band money to tour? I think bands that work extremely hard and make great music deserve to be paid for it and deserve the opportunity to keep making more albums. If you disagree, that's fine.
have a coke and a smile on me
The REASON the small independant labels are totally fucked is because of the number of people who rely on large scale marketing, tv and mainstream distribution to tell them what they are 'supposed' to be listening to. It's the BIG LABELS strangling the market because a large proportion of people are used to not having to make ANY EFFORT to seek out music, because 'acceptable' tracks which repackage ideas and genres that are stolen from the underground scene into easy to swallow installments, available from the HUGE DISPLAYS of stock at the front of every HMV or other big shops.kilgoretrout wrote:
Not many my ass... How about the Format? Interventions & Lullabies sold extremely well for a debut release, but they still got dropped. Why would you want to sign wtih one of the billion independent labels that are struggling? How are they going to give a band money to tour? I think bands that work extremely hard and make great music deserve to be paid for it and deserve the opportunity to keep making more albums. If you disagree, that's fine.SuperSlowYo wrote:
and how many really good bands can you that have been dropped by a label cause an album didnt sell as hot? not many... and even on the chance this does happen... theres like a billion struggling independent labels ready to sign any act they can... congrats on being a slave to the whole consumer process but id rather lie, cheat and STEAL....kilgoretrout wrote:
But most clubs in the country don't go through ticketmaster. It is true that bands make most of their money from touring and merch sales, but if a band doesn't sell enough albums, they get dropped from their label. If they get dropped, they won't have the tour support money that came from their label and won't be able to tour anymore. Plus, if a band gets dropped from a label, they won't get paid as much money on tour.
The fact of the matter is, you're stealing money from bands when you download music and don't buy the album. You can jusify it however you want, but you're stealing. That's not to say I don't share music. I share it with my friends and I'll download songs sometimes to see if an album is worth buying. If it's worth buying, I will. If not, you can buy the singles on iTunes and delete the crap that's not worth buying.
The big labels aggressively promote songs with underhand chart rigging (e.g. giving out massive numbers of freebies and getting them counted in the chart figures) and other dodgy methods, aside from the millions they spend on marketing. The depths they sink to know no bounds. Because it's not about the music, it's about the money. Hence the word 'business' in music business. Ever notice how all the local greengrocers, butchers and other shops are being strangled by the out of town supermarkets? Same principle.
In my opinion people are much more likely to by independant media in any format if they have heard it (which is pretty hard unless you get playtime, so copies on the internet are basically free radio) and genuinely think that it's worth the asking price. I bought all the Introversion games for that very reason, I downloaded them, loved them, and bought them. I purchase a fair amount independant music (mainly drum and bass) directly from labels and small distributors. How do I find out about the artists? I rip internet radio, or people give me the tracks, or I download them from p2p (edit: and find a few on Napster). I listen to them for a while, if they are really good I'll buy a copy. Look at the Napster model and you can see how downloading is beneficial for small artists. As long as people rely on radio, tv and advertising to tell them what they should be listening to, then small labels will never be able to compete on the same playing field.
Bottom line: Downloading is a clever red herring, and is not to blame for the problems many independant artists and labels have staying afloat; really it's big labels tactics combined with spoonfed mentality many people have adopted towards finding out about music they haven't heard.
Last edited by UnOriginalNuttah (2006-10-19 14:34:15)
When there is less shitty music out there that makes their artists millions, maybe I'll start paying money. Honestly, there are very few artists I actually like, and those that I do like I will pay money. They deserve it. Many songs on my computer I got from the iTunes store. Could I have downoaded it off of the internets for free? Sure. But frankly, Linkin Park and RATM (yes I know they broke up but im sure they still get SOME cash) make music that I like, and they deserve it.
Fergie, Nelly Furtardo, Justin Timberlake... they take a shitty audio track and tack on shittier vocals and lyrics, call it music, then either act like whores (watch the music video for London Bridge if you dont believe me) or act smooth and make millions. I admit that some of these "pop" songs are catchy, but they arent worth a dollar.
Fergie, Nelly Furtardo, Justin Timberlake... they take a shitty audio track and tack on shittier vocals and lyrics, call it music, then either act like whores (watch the music video for London Bridge if you dont believe me) or act smooth and make millions. I admit that some of these "pop" songs are catchy, but they arent worth a dollar.
Downloading will never kill the music industry. They have said it will for years, it never happened.
The reason is, if people like the band; they will pay for the cd, the t-shirt, the tour, the whatever.
I download music, but if I like it I do go out and buy their cd. If I don't, the music gets deleted. Simple as that.
The reason is, if people like the band; they will pay for the cd, the t-shirt, the tour, the whatever.
I download music, but if I like it I do go out and buy their cd. If I don't, the music gets deleted. Simple as that.
I can't - maybe you should reread what I posted again it was merely a hypothesis. However major record companies are signing artists with major deals on the strength of Myspace, that must be an indication of something. So what if people are downloading shitty mp3's of artists? it's no different to listening to them on the radio, big fucking deal. I predict that the music/video industry will benefit far more from the Internet than it will lose from it in the long run. People said blank audio cassettes would destroy the music industry and clearly it didn't.kilgoretrout wrote:
Cite an example where a record company has put tour support money behind a band because of illegal internet downloads.IG-Calibre wrote:
I disagree - should the momentum of Internet downloads be apparent to the record company then the band will tour - hence the reason why concert ticket sales are so expensive and then the revenue from merchandise sold at the events more than covers the expense of the production of the material. they have been saying since the advent of recordable media that it will kill the industry which is just plain bollox as history proves. Songwriters write songs for people to hear them, and people sing to be heard not just make money.ghettoperson wrote:
You make a persuasive argument!
You do have to remember though, if everyone is downloading, then they make no sales, meaning that the record lable won't think it worth while to get them touring. I do agree that the record companies end up with most of the money though.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2006-10-19 14:43:12)
Okay, name bands that have been signed on the strength of Myspace. And there's a huge difference between stealing mp3s and listening on the radio. On the radio, the station has paid the artist for the right to play the song over the air. A better example from you would be Mtv, since Mtv doesn't pay to show videos (they made a deal in the early 80's that a music video is advertisement so Mtv didn't have to pay), but Mtv doesn't play music anymore. The cassette argument is way off because you can only physically copy a tape so many times, and every time you copy it, it loses quality. You can't make ten billion copies off of one tape, you can copy one digital file a million times.IG-Calibre wrote:
I can't - maybe you should reread what I posted again it was merely a hypothesis. However major record companies are signing artists with major deals on the strength of Myspace, that must be an indication of something. So what if people are downloading shitty mp3's of artists? it's no different to listening to them on the radio, big fucking deal. I predict that the music/video industry will benefit far more from the Internet than it will lose from it in the long run. People said blank audio cassettes would destroy the music industry and clearly it didn't.kilgoretrout wrote:
Cite an example where a record company has put tour support money behind a band because of illegal internet downloads.IG-Calibre wrote:
I disagree - should the momentum of Internet downloads be apparent to the record company then the band will tour - hence the reason why concert ticket sales are so expensive and then the revenue from merchandise sold at the events more than covers the expense of the production of the material. they have been saying since the advent of recordable media that it will kill the industry which is just plain bollox as history proves. Songwriters write songs for people to hear them, and people sing to be heard not just make money.
That being said, I think you're right about the fact that the internet is going to be good for music and video industries. The labels and movie companies just need to figure out how to deal with the technology. I'm not exactly pro record industry, especially the RIAA sueing filesharers. It just pisses me off to see people say stuff like "Don't buy albums, all the money goes to the labels." The labels deserve money for the work they do, and that attitude kills a lot of struglng artists, some of whom I'm friends with, and my band is working on a demo for Virgin records right now.
If they ever come to my door, I'll just tell 'em:
"If you want to arrest me, you're gonna have to arrest everyone else in my town that does it along with everyone in every other state."
It wouldn't be fair to arrest one person when half the country does it.
"If you want to arrest me, you're gonna have to arrest everyone else in my town that does it along with everyone in every other state."
It wouldn't be fair to arrest one person when half the country does it.
When is life fair? And they don't arrest, the sue. And win...Poseidon wrote:
If they ever come to my door, I'll just tell 'em:
"If you want to arrest me, you're gonna have to arrest everyone else in my town that does it along with everyone in every other state."
It wouldn't be fair to arrest one person when half the country does it.
Actually, they don't win, they outbid. Your choice, 20k in settlement, or lawyers fees now and maybe fines later.kilgoretrout wrote:
When is life fair? And they don't arrest, the sue. And win...Poseidon wrote:
If they ever come to my door, I'll just tell 'em:
"If you want to arrest me, you're gonna have to arrest everyone else in my town that does it along with everyone in every other state."
It wouldn't be fair to arrest one person when half the country does it.
Oh believe me dude I have my fair share of things, But for purposes of this sites TOS im not going to condone Anything, Know what i mean? Oh BTW Nice try with the rubuttle LOL I got a chuckle out of that zinger lol. I need one lately.jonsimon wrote:
This is a great way to debunk the republican economic policy about tax cuts. If we assume money that is saved is then invested in the economy and strengthens the economy, well, we give the perfect justification for theft of all sorts.<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
I was thinking about this last night, Probably the Xanax talking LOL. But really, Who is this really hurting? OK, so Downloading takes money from Big inflated companies and who? Hollywood and Celebs? But think about it, Doesn't the money go Back into the economy? I mean the extra money is used to Buy say, Baby formula, Food for the kids, Pay Rent, Gas to get to your job. Just maybe the money could be used to pay for an over priced movie ticket once in awhile, or a CD. Yeah, one of the ones with all the parental warnings on it, you know ones that walmart wont carry because After they put the others out of Business, they are now the moral police. Think about it, I'm not condoning anything here, Was just thinking about it by chance.
Thoughts? Debate?
"Sorry officer, I was just saving money on this big screen TV so I could strengthen the economy."
As for downloading, no one should feel sorry for depriving the recording companies of a few pennies. After all, the artists don't see any of it anyway.
I Like apps and movies better LOL Mainly because i cant stand the hollywood mentality.
Last edited by <[onex]>Headstone (2006-10-19 17:03:06)
Well it wasn't really a rebuttal, closer to agreement really.<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
Oh believe me dude I have my fair share of things, But for purposes of this sites TOS im not going to condone Anything, Know what i mean? Oh BTW Nice try with the rubuttle LOL I got a chuckle out of that zinger lol. I need one lately.jonsimon wrote:
This is a great way to debunk the republican economic policy about tax cuts. If we assume money that is saved is then invested in the economy and strengthens the economy, well, we give the perfect justification for theft of all sorts.<[onex]>Headstone wrote:
I was thinking about this last night, Probably the Xanax talking LOL. But really, Who is this really hurting? OK, so Downloading takes money from Big inflated companies and who? Hollywood and Celebs? But think about it, Doesn't the money go Back into the economy? I mean the extra money is used to Buy say, Baby formula, Food for the kids, Pay Rent, Gas to get to your job. Just maybe the money could be used to pay for an over priced movie ticket once in awhile, or a CD. Yeah, one of the ones with all the parental warnings on it, you know ones that walmart wont carry because After they put the others out of Business, they are now the moral police. Think about it, I'm not condoning anything here, Was just thinking about it by chance.
Thoughts? Debate?
"Sorry officer, I was just saving money on this big screen TV so I could strengthen the economy."
As for downloading, no one should feel sorry for depriving the recording companies of a few pennies. After all, the artists don't see any of it anyway.
Just think though. If you put all your effort and skill into making an album to make money and earn your living, wouldn't you want all the money you can get?
Other than that, I'm really not sure where I stand on this issue yet.
Other than that, I'm really not sure where I stand on this issue yet.
i conur, i do the same.Ikarti wrote:
If I hear enough good songs from a CD that I illegally download I'll most likely buy the CD. It's a consumer tool that helps me weed out those shitty CDs with one decent song on it that the record companies love to produce.
Oh no, sorry for me assuming there'd actually be a fairness in a court!kilgoretrout wrote:
When is life fair? And they don't arrest, the sue. And win...Poseidon wrote:
If they ever come to my door, I'll just tell 'em:
"If you want to arrest me, you're gonna have to arrest everyone else in my town that does it along with everyone in every other state."
It wouldn't be fair to arrest one person when half the country does it.
Tsk-Tsk, I must've forgotten.
I bought more music, games and movies when I was willing to download them. Now, since I don't get a test run, I take less chances... = less money for the entertainment industry.
Thank you, RIAA strong-arming?
Thank you, RIAA strong-arming?
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-10-20 15:28:48)
My thoughts exactly. Well, when I used to download illegally, i had this theory. Now I just pay for the individual songs because those bands are what matter, not the corrupt music industry and their gouging of the bands.Ikarti wrote:
If I hear enough good songs from a CD that I illegally download I'll most likely buy the CD. It's a consumer tool that helps me weed out those shitty CDs with one decent song on it that the record companies love to produce.
This is also why they now give previews of music..though 30 seconds is not often enough of a preview.
The artists get next to no money from CD sales anyway, the only ones you're "hurting" are the record companies.
No, you're hurting the artist because they won't be able to make more albums if they don't sell enough to recoup the label's investment in recording and marketing for the album. It's true that bands make around $1 per CD sold, but labels sell albums to national stores for $7 or $8 bucks, so the huge stores are making a killing as well. It's not just the labels that are making a ton of money. Plus, the band doesn't have to pay for the production costs of the album (probably $1 per CD for manufacturing, plus the initial million or so the label spent recording the album) and the label pays a few thousand a week for the band's bus and crew. But, if the label doesn't make any money from the band (and the label only gets paid from record sales), they're going to drop the band. So, that band you really liked won't be able to afford to make another album or tour again. Good work...Pubic wrote:
The artists get next to no money from CD sales anyway, the only ones you're "hurting" are the record companies.
I'm not really a big follower of bands TBH, but look at the not insubstantial deal Lady Sovereign got on the strength of her myspace presence as an example. Also the increasing number of gigs being hosted in London for artists from myspace - kids going from playing in their garage to playing live venues with thousand plus audiences without any label backing!. Plus all the revenue streams are still intact for royalties to be paid to artists for the use of their materials. Also mp3 sales are increasing all the time minus the production costs of making CD's, not to mention the profit of producing recordable media like blank discs. In fact the Internet offers the opportunity for a band to reach a global audience without the intervention of a record company to get them that exposure. The industry will survive and artists will still make plenty of money.kilgoretrout wrote:
Okay, name bands that have been signed on the strength of Myspace. And there's a huge difference between stealing mp3s and listening on the radio. On the radio, the station has paid the artist for the right to play the song over the air. A better example from you would be Mtv, since Mtv doesn't pay to show videos (they made a deal in the early 80's that a music video is advertisement so Mtv didn't have to pay), but Mtv doesn't play music anymore. The cassette argument is way off because you can only physically copy a tape so many times, and every time you copy it, it loses quality. You can't make ten billion copies off of one tape, you can copy one digital file a million times.IG-Calibre wrote:
I can't - maybe you should reread what I posted again it was merely a hypothesis. However major record companies are signing artists with major deals on the strength of Myspace, that must be an indication of something. So what if people are downloading shitty mp3's of artists? it's no different to listening to them on the radio, big fucking deal. I predict that the music/video industry will benefit far more from the Internet than it will lose from it in the long run. People said blank audio cassettes would destroy the music industry and clearly it didn't.kilgoretrout wrote:
Cite an example where a record company has put tour support money behind a band because of illegal internet downloads.
That being said, I think you're right about the fact that the internet is going to be good for music and video industries. The labels and movie companies just need to figure out how to deal with the technology. I'm not exactly pro record industry, especially the RIAA sueing filesharers. It just pisses me off to see people say stuff like "Don't buy albums, all the money goes to the labels." The labels deserve money for the work they do, and that attitude kills a lot of struglng artists, some of whom I'm friends with, and my band is working on a demo for Virgin records right now.