I've been married for 1 year and 6 months. Ya'll are scaring me.
Good point that "roles" a man may have will be different than "roles" a woman may have in a relationship, in parenting, just as in other arenas. Unfortunately, there's both men and women thinking overtime and calling "roles" segregation or chauvinism. In the family environment, and I think as generally accepted in society, it is better for a mother to take the role as "nurturer" for the kids than the father. Kids don't just cry for mommy instead of daddy for a reason. Mom's (females) are probably, as a majority, better nurturers. This does not take away from dad's roles with their specific duties with children...say as with discipline or other such teachings. Both moms and dads nurture and discipline, but most child psychologists over the decades have suggested that moms nurture, dads discipline. Having children you can agree with this..but angry feminists without children get pissed at this notion.PuckMercury wrote:
I'll lead in with one a quote I enjoy, "Women need to realize that when they stand up for their rights, they can lose their seat."
That being said, I think our mating dance of today is simply a "modern" extension of the way it has always been. As the males predominantly have the sex drive, which is the ostensible purpose of marriage on one hand, they are driven to realize the mating. As women were traditionally viewed as weaker and inferior, what would they possibly have to offer? It was up to the men to compete in some fashion for the woman. To a degree, it still is. Now rather than killing eachother (usually) we like to think ourselves evolved in that we buy gifts, yadda yadda yadda.
That being said, I don't entirely subscribe to all that in today's society. I'm all about chivalry and openning doors, not as a sign that the woman is unable, but simply a basic gesture of respect. But I expect equality in the give and take in a relationship. It need not be in a tit for tat level, but on a macroscopic scale. I do A B C, you do X Y Z. Different, but equal so to speak ... despite how well that worked with segregation.
I think the imbalance is a function of the unspoken seeded belief in society that women are the weaker sex, therefore a man should offer and do more since he is capable of more. So the belief goes.
Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-10-12 09:52:56)
Exactly, I'm all for questioning everything, but sometimes things are the way they are because they simply work that way. A woman being the nurturer is no less significant than the man being the provider or whatever. That being said, should a particular relationship exist where the man is better suited to the role of nurturer, then the woman should be open to accpeting roles traditionally allocated to the man. Doesn't make the woman masculine, nor the man any less of a man.
People get too caught up in bucking the system just for the sake of bucking a system and not for any reason beyond that.
People get too caught up in bucking the system just for the sake of bucking a system and not for any reason beyond that.
Agreed. I know I'd gladly like to give up this piddly work of 9 to 5 and let my wife go out and bring home the bacon just so i could be with the kids all day. Sure it's waaaaay more work to be with the kids all day (rather than sitting in a cool server room spamming the BF2s message boards all day), but i'm sure it's twice as gratifying..short and long run gratification. You'll start to hear "papa" first instead of "mommy." But as you said, things just worked out better with my wife being the stay at home mom, and me being the working schmuck.
This is the most important part of the relationship between ALL men and women. I am going to be extremely blunt and I hope to not offend anyone but here is the reason for the inequities between men and women.
Women have half the money and all the pussy.
Its a supply and demand issue plain and simple.
Hope this clears everything up and i didnt offend anyone.
Women have half the money and all the pussy.
Its a supply and demand issue plain and simple.
Hope this clears everything up and i didnt offend anyone.
I just realized how long this is before posting it, but hopefully there's something useful:
Huh, S3v3N, most of the time my wife cuts right to ripping on me for whatever dastardly deed I have committed. At times she says nothing is wrong and they I get ripped to shreds in couple hours or the next day. She does have the annoying habit of asking me for my opinion and then getting mad at me when I tell her what I think. So I ask her why she bothers asking if she doesn't really want to hear the answer. We have an agreement to include each other in money decisions. Soooo, I think she wants to go through the formality of including me by asking but still wants to do whatever she wants.
There's some basic differences between men and women and why we talk. Women talk for talking's sake - the more words swirling about in one room, the better. We men do not function like that. We talk about a specific topic, for a specific purpose and then shut up. Some women (most women I know) also need to talk to keep their thought process moving. My wife will chatter on and on and if I say nothing, she'll eventually answer her own question. It's maddening . . . get to the point already!
I agree with Ironchef. One child is a huge change, now we have two: 3 year old by, 6 week old girl. I have to say getting used to coordinating life with two has been a challenge. It gets better as they get older, but don’t miss the opportunity to hold that little one while they’re still small. Before long they move to fast to want to sit with you.
PuckMercury has some great points, too. I too open doors out of simple respect and most women like it, though the feminists yell at me . . . so I laugh at them. My Dad taught me you never hit a girl or you deserve to be pounded for it by any male in the vicinity. You open doors for ladies, that includes the car door for your wife. You don't talk back to your Mom or you'll deal with me. You don't call your elders by their first name, unless they specifically ask you to. This is a sign of respect, as is how you address them if you have a disagreement. Don't raise your voice, just state your opinion in the proper manner.
Give and take is a must on both ends in a relationship. Here's where perception and the so-called “love languages” comes into play. Some guys communicate their love by doing things: keep the lawn mowed, bushes trimmed, garage clean, cars running, and yes even doing dishes and laundry. This could cause problems if the woman feels loved when he takes time to talk to her. So you can work your butt off, but if what you’re doing isn’t communicating in her love language, she might still feel neglected. Not always, but might. It’s nice when you have a wife who can see how you’re trying to communicate your love for her, even if it’s not how she feels most loved. Some women like gifts, some like touch (hugs and cuddling and such, not just sex), some like quality time, and some like words of affirmation. Find out what your wife’s is and you’ll save yourself a lot of frustration. That said, all men and women need a good mix of all of the above. Is my wife frustrating? Sometimes, but she puts up with me and I love her for it.
Huh, S3v3N, most of the time my wife cuts right to ripping on me for whatever dastardly deed I have committed. At times she says nothing is wrong and they I get ripped to shreds in couple hours or the next day. She does have the annoying habit of asking me for my opinion and then getting mad at me when I tell her what I think. So I ask her why she bothers asking if she doesn't really want to hear the answer. We have an agreement to include each other in money decisions. Soooo, I think she wants to go through the formality of including me by asking but still wants to do whatever she wants.
There's some basic differences between men and women and why we talk. Women talk for talking's sake - the more words swirling about in one room, the better. We men do not function like that. We talk about a specific topic, for a specific purpose and then shut up. Some women (most women I know) also need to talk to keep their thought process moving. My wife will chatter on and on and if I say nothing, she'll eventually answer her own question. It's maddening . . . get to the point already!
I agree with Ironchef. One child is a huge change, now we have two: 3 year old by, 6 week old girl. I have to say getting used to coordinating life with two has been a challenge. It gets better as they get older, but don’t miss the opportunity to hold that little one while they’re still small. Before long they move to fast to want to sit with you.
PuckMercury has some great points, too. I too open doors out of simple respect and most women like it, though the feminists yell at me . . . so I laugh at them. My Dad taught me you never hit a girl or you deserve to be pounded for it by any male in the vicinity. You open doors for ladies, that includes the car door for your wife. You don't talk back to your Mom or you'll deal with me. You don't call your elders by their first name, unless they specifically ask you to. This is a sign of respect, as is how you address them if you have a disagreement. Don't raise your voice, just state your opinion in the proper manner.
Give and take is a must on both ends in a relationship. Here's where perception and the so-called “love languages” comes into play. Some guys communicate their love by doing things: keep the lawn mowed, bushes trimmed, garage clean, cars running, and yes even doing dishes and laundry. This could cause problems if the woman feels loved when he takes time to talk to her. So you can work your butt off, but if what you’re doing isn’t communicating in her love language, she might still feel neglected. Not always, but might. It’s nice when you have a wife who can see how you’re trying to communicate your love for her, even if it’s not how she feels most loved. Some women like gifts, some like touch (hugs and cuddling and such, not just sex), some like quality time, and some like words of affirmation. Find out what your wife’s is and you’ll save yourself a lot of frustration. That said, all men and women need a good mix of all of the above. Is my wife frustrating? Sometimes, but she puts up with me and I love her for it.
Well I wish you the best and honestly hope that it stays that way for you. Strangely enough, I was saying many of the same things that you are at about the same period in my life (although it took me nine years to reach the three child mark). In fact, I kept on thinking so until about the 15th year when suddenly the wifey-poo started thinking that she had missed out on a great deal being married and raising children and decided that she needed to be 'free' to explore the percieved missed opportunities. While this may seem like bad luck for me....I have seen it all to often around me as well.IRONCHEF wrote:
Happily married but only 7 years in with 3 kids.
Wifey #2 has been teaching me for the last six years that I am absolutely insane. Insane for ever considering that marriage is a worthwhile deal.
Never trust anything that can bleed for four days ... and live!
"Yes Dear" is a perfect response for anything.
Well, I'm working at staying married which so far has been easy because we've learned some priceless tools, and are learning more. It helps to be in a church where you are bombarded with instructions, lessons, examples, and doctrines that help you stay married.Darth_Fleder wrote:
Well I wish you the best and honestly hope that it stays that way for you. Strangely enough, I was saying many of the same things that you are at about the same period in my life (although it took me nine years to reach the three child mark). In fact, I kept on thinking so until about the 15th year when suddenly the wifey-poo started thinking that she had missed out on a great deal being married and raising children and decided that she needed to be 'free' to explore the percieved missed opportunities. While this may seem like bad luck for me....I have seen it all to often around me as well.IRONCHEF wrote:
Happily married but only 7 years in with 3 kids.
Wifey #2 has been teaching me for the last six years that I am absolutely insane. Insane for ever considering that marriage is a worthwhile deal.
Some tools include:
1) Humility. (the opposite of pride...pride is what keeps you from admitting mistakes, and even just talking about something)
2) Service. If you approach marriage expecting to get more out than you put in, you're wrong. Being charitable (most just doing the small things for your spouse) is the best way to avoid pride. Also, teaching your kids service teaches them to be good citizens and how to be selfless.
3) Passion. If after 5 years, you aren't able to randomly just make out with your wife, then you need serious help because that's the first indicator you're headed towards mutiny. Repeat this query annually. And I mean "make out" as if you were dating, not just doing a TV kiss or goodbye kiss.
4) Empathy. The age old addage to put yourself in their shoes. Especially important before speaking, commenting on outfits, bringing home an expensive new computer or other toy.
5) Listen. When playing BF2 after the kids go to bed because it's finally time to play, and your wife stands next to you to say she's going to a neighbors house to do something, actually listen to what she said so you don't think she's been kidnapped, raped, or killed because you can't find her in the house an hour later after your BF2 rounds are over. (yes, happened tuesday night) (and our neighborhood is such to make one jump to conclusions) Listening also includes actually understanding what your wife says when she "hints" at something bothering her.
I could go on, but as stated, i've got 7 years of experience only. In short, the best advice is "don't be a n00b!"
Nothing we can do about that, it's all derived from sexual selection. Play the game, or you don't get none.Vub wrote:
This may be a lost cause on these forums because I estimate the demographic makeup of BF2s forum users to be predominantly male. But I know there are females on these forums too, and I welcome their rebuttles. I'm making generalised comments based on what I've observed from films, pop culture, music, literature and anecdotes. Definitely there will be people who don't act in the manner which I claim.
I've noticed with a certain dismay that despite the feminist struggles of the 80s for greater rights and respect for women, the role of the man and woman are far from equal in the relationship. The generally accepted role of the male is to please the female, to win the female, to agree with the female, and to apologise to the female so frequently it seems they're doing it with the hope of reinstating lasting peace with their partner.
- It is the male who proposes, many females are willing to wait for the man to ask, even though she desires it greatly.
- It is he who buys her flowers, and showers her with gifts. Many females seem to be materialistic, and judges the male, to a certain degree, on the quality and frequency of his presents.
- If she misses a birthday, the man would not be concerned about it. However forgetting a girlfriend/wife's birthday or anniversary would certainly create a category 6.
By what gross miscalculation in history did males achieve such a subordinate's position in the arena of courting? Is it because men think differently, are really only interested in physical satisfaction, and so is willing to wade through any amount of subservience to please the provider of such pleasure? Isn't it unfair that in a relationship anyone should try and live up to another's expectations?
Equality should reign in a relationship. After all, that's what feminists have been fighting for for all these years.
You relate almost anything remotely mentioning women to sex. The sex thread is a couple clicks over. This thread is about relationships and they aren't all based on sex! Be prepared. If you're with a woman, she's going to whack you upside the head with a 2x4 of reality - relationships take work. It ain't all lovin' 24/7.jonsimon wrote:
Nothing we can do about that, it's all derived from sexual selection. Play the game, or you don't get none.
Materialistic? yes, unfair? yes. Can you do anything about it? no...unless you want to start sleeping with men.
PS: I know relationships arent all about sex, but without it they crumble usually.
PS: I know relationships arent all about sex, but without it they crumble usually.
Lets face it, if they didn't have a vagina we'd throw rocks at them.
IRONCHEF I admire your optimism and congratulate you for your happy marriage.
However, why is it often so much harder to get the woman to apologise or empathise with the man? It seems like those qualities you suggested (humility, empathy, passion and service) are prescriptions to a man in order to maintain a functional relationship, but not to a woman.
Doesn't it strike you as unfair that the man is instructed to work so hard, and go against his will on many things, to make a relationship work; whereas a woman can just expect to be treated right? Maybe for sex the male will agree to almost anything just for satisfaction; but the human relationship is much more dynamic and emotional than just mating, and so the male shouldn't have to appease the woman.
However, why is it often so much harder to get the woman to apologise or empathise with the man? It seems like those qualities you suggested (humility, empathy, passion and service) are prescriptions to a man in order to maintain a functional relationship, but not to a woman.
Doesn't it strike you as unfair that the man is instructed to work so hard, and go against his will on many things, to make a relationship work; whereas a woman can just expect to be treated right? Maybe for sex the male will agree to almost anything just for satisfaction; but the human relationship is much more dynamic and emotional than just mating, and so the male shouldn't have to appease the woman.
Be careful who you choose.Stingray24 wrote:
AMEN! First, I drop 4K on her wedding ring (ok, that's cool, it's paid for). On 1st anniversary bought her a diamond pendant and she never wears it! But God forbid I want to upgrade my gaming rig! That's "a waste of money".kr@cker wrote:
the second point is what gets me the most, they want earrings and necklaces, yet call us materialistic for getting things you can actually use, like a flat screen or a big ass truck
I'd have to go with a gamer girl, all the way (or at least one who's willing to pretend). I don't think there's a big chance that any other kind of person would cope with my geeky enthusiasm, otherwise.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-10-13 00:29:57)
I've always thought of paying for someone's meal, opening a door for them and other such acts to be a sign of respect, friendship or admiration, among other things. If I feel so inclined, I will do it for someone regardless of their gender. If I take a woman out for dinner, and open a door for her it is because I like her and want to show some of these qualities to her.
I was born in the 70s and grew up in the 80s/90s.
Feminists, once upon a time, said that opening a door or paying for a meal was offensive. An arrogant display of male chauvanism which did nothing to demean women and imply they weren't capable of doing these basic things for themselves.
"No thanks", they said, "I can open the door for myself and am more than capable of paying for my own meal!"
"Fine then", said the rest of society, "we get the hint!", and stopped doing such things as opening doors and paying for meals.
Now, these days, they complain about men not being nice to them. Go figure.
I was born in the 70s and grew up in the 80s/90s.
Feminists, once upon a time, said that opening a door or paying for a meal was offensive. An arrogant display of male chauvanism which did nothing to demean women and imply they weren't capable of doing these basic things for themselves.
"No thanks", they said, "I can open the door for myself and am more than capable of paying for my own meal!"
"Fine then", said the rest of society, "we get the hint!", and stopped doing such things as opening doors and paying for meals.
Now, these days, they complain about men not being nice to them. Go figure.
Last edited by Pubic (2006-10-13 00:50:01)
Not to mention that alot of us are dead scared that one of them will snare us and take everything we own in a divorce.Pubic wrote:
I've always thought of paying for someone's meal, opening a door for them and other such acts to be a sign of respect, friendship or admiration, among other things. If I feel so inclined, I will do it for someone regardless of their gender. If I take a woman out for dinner, and open a door for her it is because I like her and want to show some of these qualities to her.
I was born in the 70s and grew up in the 80s/90s.
Feminists, once upon a time, said that opening a door or paying for a meal was offensive. An arrogant display of male chauvanism which did nothing to demean women and imply they weren't capable of doing these basic things for themselves.
"No thanks", they said, "I can open the door for myself and am more than capable of paying for my own meal!"
"Fine then", said the rest of society, "we get the hint!", and stopped doing such things as opening doors and paying for meals.
Now, these days, they complain about men not being nice to them. Go figure.
Definitely be careful who you choose. I'd marry her again, though. She puts up with me and I got my gaming rig anyway. I love her to death, but she doesn't like gaming.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Be careful who you choose.Stingray24 wrote:
AMEN! First, I drop 4K on her wedding ring (ok, that's cool, it's paid for). On 1st anniversary bought her a diamond pendant and she never wears it! But God forbid I want to upgrade my gaming rig! That's "a waste of money".kr@cker wrote:
the second point is what gets me the most, they want earrings and necklaces, yet call us materialistic for getting things you can actually use, like a flat screen or a big ass truck
I'd have to go with a gamer girl, all the way (or at least one who's willing to pretend). I don't think there's a big chance that any other kind of person would cope with my geeky enthusiasm, otherwise.