Those are quotation marks, not "inverted commas!"CameronPoe wrote:
See the inverted commas Pollux - that's called sarcasm, something I thought you liked. I'm poking fun at Fox News. A station whose motto is 'Fair & Balanced' which it quite obviously isn't.... *sigh*
Poe, as usual, we can see the majority of bf2s "serious debaters" can't form a genuine rebuttle or comment based on your thread.
I realize that as a foreigner (of the US), you talk about my country alot because there's plenty of reasons to. If you took a world survey to find out which country is most talked about (for good or bad), I'm guessing USA would be at the top or near the top of that list for it's emperial rampage over the earth effecting probably every country in some way. So I find no fault in your repeated inquiries, be they anti-american/bush or just anti-pollux.
As for your topic, you are (as you might say) "spot on." I often wonder about the current state of media here and I'm saddened like many are who have likewise become "aware." On my dish network channel selection, there's an obviously left leaning channelcalled "free speech tv" that airs some good programs now and then and it's such a huge contrast to what I would see in "normal" mainstream media reporting on global affairs. For example, by watching a program where some brit journalist tours around in some of the hot spots in Iraq, he shows alot of the real occurences that those people suffer regularly. During his stops, he gets a unique opportunity to film jihadists (who are just normal iraqi's fed up with us soldiers kidnapping, killing, and destroying their country) including a genuine non-iraqi militant who shows him his martyr video before doing a job under a bridge. This journalist also pals around with some us military people and gets their thoughts and opinions. Truly, this piece was an unbiased, honest look inside Iraq that I would never get to see aired on any of our networks. i came away from that program realizing that there are mothers, fathers, children, friends, neighbors, etc...just like us..who live in this place that is producing dozens of mutilated, executed bodies in morgues daily. I saw mothers standing in a line at abu graib prison with thousands of others all hoping for a number so they can possibly be chosen to enter the prison and visit with their abducted loved one...some of which loved ones are obviously innocent young men taken because they are young men...some of these loved ones abducted, beaten, tortured, and still sitting in there without a formal charge, without rights, and without reason. I saw dads holding their dead children and putting them in small coffins as they cry hysterically. I saw us soldiers, a female captain in charge of a convoy who stopped to investigate a blown up vehicle and she talked with locals through a translator and found out some guy was blown up as he was driving to work hitting an IED intended for the "occupiers." The poor captain had seen so much of this that she didn't even show emotion, yet some of her young privates and corporals were in need of consoling as they saw some of the carnage. She said "don't worry, they'll toughen up after a couple more weeks."
Anyway, sorry for the tangent. POint being is that we are indeed inundated with propaganda. While I believe Fox is the foremost of the big networks that have a one way bias, I've seen other networks, ABC, CNN, CBS, MSNBC, etc show both sides of bias (seems odd, but true). Their crime, IMHO, is that they report what tantalizes and entertains. There is no such thing as journalistic integrity. And what makes that worse? Agenda-based programming and content.
In our country, you can't just execute people running against you. So you have to be very, very smooth with the media and mold them towards your favor. This is how you win elections, shape public opinion, pass laws, convict and condemn "suspects," and it's how you hurt people. I think our country may be as inundated with propaganda as nazi era germany was.
I realize that as a foreigner (of the US), you talk about my country alot because there's plenty of reasons to. If you took a world survey to find out which country is most talked about (for good or bad), I'm guessing USA would be at the top or near the top of that list for it's emperial rampage over the earth effecting probably every country in some way. So I find no fault in your repeated inquiries, be they anti-american/bush or just anti-pollux.
As for your topic, you are (as you might say) "spot on." I often wonder about the current state of media here and I'm saddened like many are who have likewise become "aware." On my dish network channel selection, there's an obviously left leaning channelcalled "free speech tv" that airs some good programs now and then and it's such a huge contrast to what I would see in "normal" mainstream media reporting on global affairs. For example, by watching a program where some brit journalist tours around in some of the hot spots in Iraq, he shows alot of the real occurences that those people suffer regularly. During his stops, he gets a unique opportunity to film jihadists (who are just normal iraqi's fed up with us soldiers kidnapping, killing, and destroying their country) including a genuine non-iraqi militant who shows him his martyr video before doing a job under a bridge. This journalist also pals around with some us military people and gets their thoughts and opinions. Truly, this piece was an unbiased, honest look inside Iraq that I would never get to see aired on any of our networks. i came away from that program realizing that there are mothers, fathers, children, friends, neighbors, etc...just like us..who live in this place that is producing dozens of mutilated, executed bodies in morgues daily. I saw mothers standing in a line at abu graib prison with thousands of others all hoping for a number so they can possibly be chosen to enter the prison and visit with their abducted loved one...some of which loved ones are obviously innocent young men taken because they are young men...some of these loved ones abducted, beaten, tortured, and still sitting in there without a formal charge, without rights, and without reason. I saw dads holding their dead children and putting them in small coffins as they cry hysterically. I saw us soldiers, a female captain in charge of a convoy who stopped to investigate a blown up vehicle and she talked with locals through a translator and found out some guy was blown up as he was driving to work hitting an IED intended for the "occupiers." The poor captain had seen so much of this that she didn't even show emotion, yet some of her young privates and corporals were in need of consoling as they saw some of the carnage. She said "don't worry, they'll toughen up after a couple more weeks."
Anyway, sorry for the tangent. POint being is that we are indeed inundated with propaganda. While I believe Fox is the foremost of the big networks that have a one way bias, I've seen other networks, ABC, CNN, CBS, MSNBC, etc show both sides of bias (seems odd, but true). Their crime, IMHO, is that they report what tantalizes and entertains. There is no such thing as journalistic integrity. And what makes that worse? Agenda-based programming and content.
In our country, you can't just execute people running against you. So you have to be very, very smooth with the media and mold them towards your favor. This is how you win elections, shape public opinion, pass laws, convict and condemn "suspects," and it's how you hurt people. I think our country may be as inundated with propaganda as nazi era germany was.
d3v1ldr1v3r13 wrote:
In response to your PS, yes...
Quotation marks, also called quotes or inverted commas, are punctuation marks used in pairs to set off speech, a quotation, or a phrase. The pair consists of an opening quotation mark and a closing quotation mark, which may or may not be the same character.DesertFox423 wrote:
Those are quotation marks, not "inverted commas!"CameronPoe wrote:
See the inverted commas Pollux - that's called sarcasm, something I thought you liked. I'm poking fun at Fox News. A station whose motto is 'Fair & Balanced' which it quite obviously isn't.... *sigh*
Oh, I stand corrected. It's a regional term, apparently; like the conflict between soda, cola, and pop.
Yes I am.CameronPoe wrote:
PS Are intelligent Americans not sick of it?
That's why I watch the Colbert Report and the Daily Show, they probably offer just as accurate of news as any other news channel in America. Say? Anyone wanna watch a 24 hour Target: America marathon with me? pls pls?
One day people like Cameron, Ikarti, jonsimon, etc. will see how they were the ones brainwashed.
I agree with Fancy. Hmmm. I'm buying a nuclear shelter.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I agree. I used to read his posts, but now as I read them, all I see is "America blah blah blah" and simply don't care to read any further. It's becoming tiresome.rawls2 wrote:
You are way to biased now. Can't read anything you write because it is way to slanted.
I fail to see how. I'm a very logical, analytical and discerning individual. My job demands it. I'm an engineer. I deal in facts and figures. There are people ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE being 'brainwashed' - I don't think I fall into the category of 'brainwashee'. I critically appraise EVERYTHING I read or see before making a judgement call on it.rawls2 wrote:
One day people like Cameron, Ikarti, jonsimon, etc. will see how they were the ones brainwashed.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-09 16:06:50)
Well, everybody will say that about themselves.
The anatomy of a BF2s debate thread!
[Poster posts his opinion or a situation and asks the forums' opinion on the matter]
[Second poster either agrees or disagrees]
[Third poster disagrees with the second poster]
[Fourth poster insults all who disagree]
[Fifth poster insults fourth poster's debating skill]
[Sixth poster insults the intelligence of all who disagree]
This continues for X number of pages till everyone gets bored, or until it's locked
Now, someones going to quote me, insult my intelligence, maybe call me immature.
[Poster posts his opinion or a situation and asks the forums' opinion on the matter]
[Second poster either agrees or disagrees]
[Third poster disagrees with the second poster]
[Fourth poster insults all who disagree]
[Fifth poster insults fourth poster's debating skill]
[Sixth poster insults the intelligence of all who disagree]
This continues for X number of pages till everyone gets bored, or until it's locked
Now, someones going to quote me, insult my intelligence, maybe call me immature.
Of course they will. Everyone migrates to a certain extent towards those expressing the views they want to hear. I still remain hyper-critical of all of such views however. TRUST NO-ONE!!!!DesertFox423 wrote:
Well, everybody will say that about themselves.
Exactly. If you've become "aware" that your media is not portraying truth, then how would such a person be more susceptible to being brainwashed vs. the dolt that thinks the media he's watching is fine?
Also, if you do a minimal effort via correspondence, travel, or other means to see what the other media outlets around the world are saying...I fail to see how such a person would end up being brainwashed vs. some dolt who watches his precious FOX "news" every night...
Some of the logic displayed in this thread is mind boggling.
Also, if you do a minimal effort via correspondence, travel, or other means to see what the other media outlets around the world are saying...I fail to see how such a person would end up being brainwashed vs. some dolt who watches his precious FOX "news" every night...
Some of the logic displayed in this thread is mind boggling.
While I do not necessarily agree with Ironchefs logic in the upper post, this rings true.
"Some of the logic displayed in this thread is mind boggling" -That is the farking truth.
"Some of the logic displayed in this thread is mind boggling" -That is the farking truth.
Can't beat 'em? Insult their logic and say that they're brainwashed.IRONCHEF wrote:
Exactly. If you've become "aware" that your media is not portraying truth, then how would such a person be more susceptible to being brainwashed vs. the dolt that thinks the media he's watching is fine?
Also, if you do a minimal effort via correspondence, travel, or other means to see what the other media outlets around the world are saying...I fail to see how such a person would end up being brainwashed vs. some dolt who watches his precious FOX "news" every night...
Some of the logic displayed in this thread is mind boggling.
I was evaluating Rawls2's comment saying that some of the people (with liberal comments) will end up being the ones brainwashed, and like cameron, I rebutted that rediculous comment with logic. And yes, it was meant to mildly insult the baseless remark made by rawls2.PspRpg-7 wrote:
Can't beat 'em? Insult their logic and say that they're brainwashed.IRONCHEF wrote:
Exactly. If you've become "aware" that your media is not portraying truth, then how would such a person be more susceptible to being brainwashed vs. the dolt that thinks the media he's watching is fine?
Also, if you do a minimal effort via correspondence, travel, or other means to see what the other media outlets around the world are saying...I fail to see how such a person would end up being brainwashed vs. some dolt who watches his precious FOX "news" every night...
Some of the logic displayed in this thread is mind boggling.
On a similar note to the OP, Cuban television is H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S. Cubans have NO IDEA what is going on in the outside world. TeleRebelde hosts 3 hour rants of socialist rhetoric from Raul Castro, open university programs (one that peaked my interest while there was a one hour special on Leninism/Marxism), soap operas involving guerrillas and oppressive governments, adverts concerning maintaining 'personal hygiene' and 'consuming less' and stirring montages of revolutionary imagery spliced with images of Fidel on 'international' missions with the likes of Chavez. An eye-opener indeed.
I just skimmed through, and I saw "brainwashed" and a facetious comment about logic. So I went with it.IRONCHEF wrote:
I was evaluating Rawls2's comment saying that some of the people (with liberal comments) will end up being the ones brainwashed, and like cameron, I rebutted that rediculous comment with logic. And yes, it was meant to mildly insult the baseless remark made by rawls2.PspRpg-7 wrote:
Can't beat 'em? Insult their logic and say that they're brainwashed.IRONCHEF wrote:
Exactly. If you've become "aware" that your media is not portraying truth, then how would such a person be more susceptible to being brainwashed vs. the dolt that thinks the media he's watching is fine?
Also, if you do a minimal effort via correspondence, travel, or other means to see what the other media outlets around the world are saying...I fail to see how such a person would end up being brainwashed vs. some dolt who watches his precious FOX "news" every night...
Some of the logic displayed in this thread is mind boggling.
generally i dont listen to cnn or faux news. i listen to cnbc and bloomberg. hope thats intelligent enough for ya!CameronPoe wrote:
Whilst in Cuba I, rather surprisingly, had access to the US version of CNN in the hotel I stayed in for the first four days. I watched with great interest and to be honest great horror and disdain. It is an affront to journalistic integrity and a propaganda-machine of Orwellian-Goebbelian proportions. I am familiar with the likes of FOX News too as whenever I return home to Donegal I can watch it on their digital package. It too is an affront to journalistic integrity and a propaganda-machine of Orwellian-Goebbelian proportions.
In every report carried by either station subliminal messages pervade every facet of each story, each one crafted with subtle language designed to lead the viewer to a particular conclusion of their choosing. Tickertapes clutter the bottom of the screen planting subliminal ideas in the minds of less-discerning viewers. The lines between news item and editorial are all but completely indistinguishable. Headlines can now, it seems, carry a question mark: essentially allowing 'news' channels to plant an idea in a viewers head for which they need provide no proof or indeed have any basis for proving at all.
The majority mindless masses of the world watch TV with their 'awareness' and 'discernment' levels set to near zero. These people have votes. When the news media operates in such a seemingly unregulated and completely biased fashion bad things happen, as history can testify. Propaganda can even rewrite history in the minds of the imbeciles.
So, what are we to do about this? The most powerful nation on earth is infested with odious indoctrinating tripe for their personal viewing pleasure. Each station slants so much that it is no wonder people in USA have such black/white good/evil 1/0 diametrically opposed viewpoints. What is to be done about the impact propaganda has on the gormless idiots it affects when it comes to election time?
PS Are intelligent Americans not sick of it?
Capitalization is the difference between "i helped my uncle jack off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse."smtt686 wrote:
generally i dont listen to cnn or faux news. i listen to cnbc and bloomberg. hope thats intelligent enough for ya!CameronPoe wrote:
Whilst in Cuba I, rather surprisingly, had access to the US version of CNN in the hotel I stayed in for the first four days. I watched with great interest and to be honest great horror and disdain. It is an affront to journalistic integrity and a propaganda-machine of Orwellian-Goebbelian proportions. I am familiar with the likes of FOX News too as whenever I return home to Donegal I can watch it on their digital package. It too is an affront to journalistic integrity and a propaganda-machine of Orwellian-Goebbelian proportions.
In every report carried by either station subliminal messages pervade every facet of each story, each one crafted with subtle language designed to lead the viewer to a particular conclusion of their choosing. Tickertapes clutter the bottom of the screen planting subliminal ideas in the minds of less-discerning viewers. The lines between news item and editorial are all but completely indistinguishable. Headlines can now, it seems, carry a question mark: essentially allowing 'news' channels to plant an idea in a viewers head for which they need provide no proof or indeed have any basis for proving at all.
The majority mindless masses of the world watch TV with their 'awareness' and 'discernment' levels set to near zero. These people have votes. When the news media operates in such a seemingly unregulated and completely biased fashion bad things happen, as history can testify. Propaganda can even rewrite history in the minds of the imbeciles.
So, what are we to do about this? The most powerful nation on earth is infested with odious indoctrinating tripe for their personal viewing pleasure. Each station slants so much that it is no wonder people in USA have such black/white good/evil 1/0 diametrically opposed viewpoints. What is to be done about the impact propaganda has on the gormless idiots it affects when it comes to election time?
PS Are intelligent Americans not sick of it?
By scrutinizing the data that supports your idea and quickly labeling anything else as propaganda.CameronPoe wrote:
I fail to see how. I'm a very logical, analytical and discerning individual. My job demands it. I'm an engineer. I deal in facts and figures. There are people ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE being 'brainwashed' - I don't think I fall into the category of 'brainwashee'. I critically appraise EVERYTHING I read or see before making a judgement call on it.rawls2 wrote:
One day people like Cameron, Ikarti, jonsimon, etc. will see how they were the ones brainwashed.
That is quite simply untrue. I don't let go of an argument lightly and usually have all my bases covered. If I am presented with a counter-argument that forces me to concede a point, then I openly accept it as I have many times in the past. The 60+ thread on Israel is testament to the fact that I have the facts, can present them clearly and concisely, I can use them to back my POV up (which I form myself) and can then rebutt all responses to my argument (unless of course I concede on a particular point here or there). My view is rarely 100% entrenched, I reserve the right to CHANGE MY MIND if presented with a compelling alternative. This forum presents you with the opportunity to present me with counter-arguments. Which is more productive than discussing my debating style or means of forming opinions.rawls2 wrote:
By scrutinizing the data that supports your idea and quickly labeling anything else as propaganda.CameronPoe wrote:
I fail to see how. I'm a very logical, analytical and discerning individual. My job demands it. I'm an engineer. I deal in facts and figures. There are people ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE being 'brainwashed' - I don't think I fall into the category of 'brainwashee'. I critically appraise EVERYTHING I read or see before making a judgement call on it.rawls2 wrote:
One day people like Cameron, Ikarti, jonsimon, etc. will see how they were the ones brainwashed.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-09 16:33:32)
if i was writing a proposal or my thesis then yes i would worry about caps. but u see i really dont care.PspRpg-7 wrote:
Capitalization is the difference between "i helped my uncle jack off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse."smtt686 wrote:
generally i dont listen to cnn or faux news. i listen to cnbc and bloomberg. hope thats intelligent enough for ya!CameronPoe wrote:
Whilst in Cuba I, rather surprisingly, had access to the US version of CNN in the hotel I stayed in for the first four days. I watched with great interest and to be honest great horror and disdain. It is an affront to journalistic integrity and a propaganda-machine of Orwellian-Goebbelian proportions. I am familiar with the likes of FOX News too as whenever I return home to Donegal I can watch it on their digital package. It too is an affront to journalistic integrity and a propaganda-machine of Orwellian-Goebbelian proportions.
In every report carried by either station subliminal messages pervade every facet of each story, each one crafted with subtle language designed to lead the viewer to a particular conclusion of their choosing. Tickertapes clutter the bottom of the screen planting subliminal ideas in the minds of less-discerning viewers. The lines between news item and editorial are all but completely indistinguishable. Headlines can now, it seems, carry a question mark: essentially allowing 'news' channels to plant an idea in a viewers head for which they need provide no proof or indeed have any basis for proving at all.
The majority mindless masses of the world watch TV with their 'awareness' and 'discernment' levels set to near zero. These people have votes. When the news media operates in such a seemingly unregulated and completely biased fashion bad things happen, as history can testify. Propaganda can even rewrite history in the minds of the imbeciles.
So, what are we to do about this? The most powerful nation on earth is infested with odious indoctrinating tripe for their personal viewing pleasure. Each station slants so much that it is no wonder people in USA have such black/white good/evil 1/0 diametrically opposed viewpoints. What is to be done about the impact propaganda has on the gormless idiots it affects when it comes to election time?
PS Are intelligent Americans not sick of it?
good luck with your uncle and the horse! hope everything works out like you expected!
I said people like you are bieng brainwashed, not will end up bieng. And how is it baseless? Its an opinion, I am the base. I don't need a library to to form an opinion like some of you here.IRONCHEF wrote:
I was evaluating Rawls2's comment saying that some of the people (with liberal comments) will end up being the ones brainwashed, and like cameron, I rebutted that rediculous comment with logic. And yes, it was meant to mildly insult the baseless remark made by rawls2.PspRpg-7 wrote:
Can't beat 'em? Insult their logic and say that they're brainwashed.IRONCHEF wrote:
Exactly. If you've become "aware" that your media is not portraying truth, then how would such a person be more susceptible to being brainwashed vs. the dolt that thinks the media he's watching is fine?
Also, if you do a minimal effort via correspondence, travel, or other means to see what the other media outlets around the world are saying...I fail to see how such a person would end up being brainwashed vs. some dolt who watches his precious FOX "news" every night...
Some of the logic displayed in this thread is mind boggling.
Last edited by rawls2 (2006-10-09 16:31:37)