Debating(arguing) is the only way to establish an informed well developed opinion. Somthing tells me you need more mental stimulation in your life.Jenkinsbball wrote:
Good job posting that here where a bunch of closet faggots that live in their parents basement, spending all of their time reading this website. I stopped after the first paragraph. Get a life sir.
Also, this may intrest you:Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Wow. You were....not kidding. You actually believe everything you just said...OOOKAAY. I do not like our current president, nor have I liked our last few presidents, but what you are saying is insane. You believe that Haliburton is going to build an oil piplline from Iraq to China, and that they are going to sell oil to China from Iraq. I thought that you said that the government knows oil is running out and that we went to war to secure oil for the future. One again, even if this pipeline story were true, the media would be going wild right now. We would be criticized by hundreds of countries and the American public would be PISSED. They would never get away with it. I have not yet heard a single thing about an American owned pipline. Could we really even make up enough money(with a pipline that would be a prime victim for terrorist attacks) to replace the money lost in the world trade center, the war, and the economy all put together.Cougar wrote:
Do you think it's just gonna "pop up" all ready to go? Do you think there is a big gas station in the middle of Iraq that you just pump the fuel out of? No. They need to build the infastructure to get the oil out, which takes years. Think about how long it took to build the Alaskan Pipeline, and then note, those guys weren't getting shot at and having cars explode around them while they were building. Also note who the largest contracter, with the most contracts in Iraq is......Haliburton. What does Haliburton specilize in? Oil and Natural Gas infastructure construction. Who owns Haliburton? Dick Cheney the Vice fucking President. Also, the overtaking of Iraq would give the U.S. military the oppurtunity to build bases in Iraq, which borders Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, two of the biggest oil producers in the world. If anything were to happen in those two countries, we would be right there, waiting. Also, who are the Saudi and Kuwaiti's biggest customer? You got it, U.S.A.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
I am going to lose my mind if one more person says that we went to war with Iraq for oil. Do you honestly believe that we are recieving any oil from Iraq? I have heard this many times, but never with facts to back it up with that are not purely circumstantial. Why don't you try to back that up with facts. Even if we were getting oil free from Iraq, it would do nothing to replace the trillions of dollars spent on the war(Not to mention how terrible it would look to the rest of the world and to the rest of America if Bush did that).
I could also go into the plans Haliburton has laid out for a pipeline through Iraq and Afghanistan that would run into China, who at the moment is going through an industrial revolution and has a high demand for oil. That cash would more than make up for the amount of money spent on the Iraq war and Afghani war combined. Not to mention the U.S. would be set on oil for the next 20 to 30 years.
But you're right, all the stuff I said above is just poppycock and "kookoo konspiracy" non-sense, which makes absoultly no sense what so ever, because after all, a bunch of rich bankers and oil barons that just happen to run the most powerful country in the world would NEVER do anything dasterdly like that because they are all good ole boys and "good christians".Perhaps, because the end profit will be more than the initial deficit.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Why would the government destroy our economy and spend billions on a war just rof oil? If we were taaking any significant amount of oil from Iraq the media would jump all over it. I found the rest of that speech to be overdramatic, but nice job not mentioning parties.
You also believe that the government staged the attack on 9/11 to go to war with Iraq. Your entire arguemt rests on the base that this is true; without it, your entire debate falls apart. There were already several dozens of reasons that we could have gone to war with them. There are easier ways of convincing the country to go to war. I guarantee that anybody who reads this with an IQ>130 will be able to think of at least 3 different ways that the government could have either staged some other type of attak, or falsified intelligence in order to take us to war. Seriously...use common sense people!
http://www.lilithgallery.com/articles/2 … China.html
Hang on, Is it just me, but I dont believe that Cougar mentioned in any part of his debate that the US staged 9/11.?Deadmonkiefart wrote:
You also believe that the government staged the attack on 9/11 to go to war with Iraq. Your entire arguemt rests on the base that this is true; without it, your entire debate falls apart. There were already several dozens of reasons that we could have gone to war with them. There are easier ways of convincing the country to go to war. I guarantee that anybody who reads this with an IQ>130 will be able to think of at least 3 different ways that the government could have either staged some other type of attak, or falsified intelligence in order to take us to war. Seriously...use common sense people!
lol. Okay, mr. 198 hours of playing as squad leader.Jenkinsbball wrote:
Good job posting that here where a bunch of closet faggots that live in their parents basement, spending all of their time reading this website. I stopped after the first paragraph. Get a life sir.
How is this relavent to the debate?Spearhead wrote:
lol. Okay, mr. 198 hours of playing as squad leader.Jenkinsbball wrote:
Good job posting that here where a bunch of closet faggots that live in their parents basement, spending all of their time reading this website. I stopped after the first paragraph. Get a life sir.
Jenkins was being a hypocrit, Spearhead just proved that.Jestar12345 wrote:
How is this relavent to the debate?Spearhead wrote:
lol. Okay, mr. 198 hours of playing as squad leader.Jenkinsbball wrote:
Good job posting that here where a bunch of closet faggots that live in their parents basement, spending all of their time reading this website. I stopped after the first paragraph. Get a life sir.
Thank God we are not the only ones who see this.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Jenkins was being a hypocrit, Spearhead just proved that.Jestar12345 wrote:
How is this relavent to the debate?Spearhead wrote:
lol. Okay, mr. 198 hours of playing as squad leader.
Ah, my bad....
/prepare for Cougars hammering of Mike J.
/prepare for Cougars hammering of Mike J.
Last edited by Jestar12345 (2006-10-07 22:29:04)
To Mike J
Doesn't the founding fathers want freedom of speech to all? If someone believed in communism, why would someone stop it? Isn't the US being a little hipocritical for being so anti?
Doesn't the founding fathers want freedom of speech to all? If someone believed in communism, why would someone stop it? Isn't the US being a little hipocritical for being so anti?
This is exactly what I've been talking about. Thank you for someone finally recognizing it. I would have but I'm a lazy ass. Anywho, we're too close to facism, and basically a terrible life style. I'm gonna move to canada, later.
well a good debate has now turned into a petty arguement, awesome. anyways cougar nice job i you spent some time on it. anyways i agree with you that americas reliance on oil may be it's downfall. part of my job entails working with companys who are tying to create new forms of alternative fuels. I think we are making progress, all though it may be to late. anyways i am to tired write to form any sort of opinion maybe tomorrow.
Say you opened up a dairy shop. 60 years later you come back and find that your grandchildren have turned it into a porno shop with a small dairy section in the back, how would you feel? Would you be capable of running a porno shop when all you know is dairy?Mike_J wrote:
I suppose the words from the Founding Fathers are eternal truths, practically advice from God himself. I doubt the Founding Fathers would be capable of running today's United States.
Yes, ask anyone else on these forums that is from a different nation and they will tell you how gleeful they are about how we are imposing our beliefs on them. Also, ask them what we have accomplished for them in the past 40 years. Korea was the last, somewhat decent and selfless thing we did. Don't even try to come back with the Kuwait arguement because you and I both know that if there was no oil there, Saddam would be chilling in his Kuwaiti jaccuzzi as we speak.Mike_J wrote:
Today's United States makes more of an effort to spread its benefits to others selflessly rather than solely to its own people. Don't give me all of that corrupt shit of politician's personal interests, because that is far from outweighing what the US accomplishes for the benefit of everyone.
Are you fucking serious? It is not YOUR or ANYONE elses place to be spreading what YOU think is a righteous ideology. Thats called a crusade you dumbass, and it's exactly why all of our ex-allies hate us now. It's also (ironically) what we are supposedly fighting against! Also, you don't think that a government that would listen to your every phone call, without probable cause, is a big deal?! That sounds like something straight out of 1984! The loss of privacy is the first step to the loss of freedom.Mike_J wrote:
I read many assumptions in the OP. Powerful assumptions that most probably overlooked and assume are truths. Some good points though too. Hey, if it is a radical ideology to try and spread righteousness, then call me a fascist. Like Cougar mentioned- "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.--Edmund Burke" Oh but wait, I'd rather not have my phone call to Betty Sue possibly monitored (because by all means I don't believe the government when they spell out their wire tapping guidelines) during tense times than have my government look out my physical safety against someone who will do anything to kill me or my fellow citizens and in general good people.
Yeah, actually you are stupid. A temporary infringement upon your rights is still an infringement upon your rights. The Bill of Rights is the LAW OF THE LAND, it's the very building block of everything our country and laws are built upon. If they don't have a problem with breaking the law and you don't have a problem with them breaking the law, then who's to stop them when they decide to break all of them? How would you feel if they just kicked in your door in the middle of the night and took all of your guns away? Temporary infringement? What if a platoon of soldiers just waltzed into your house and threw you into the street and said "this is our base now, get lost"? Temporary INFRINGEMENT!? Dumbass! What you describe is exactly how another country used to operate. It was called the U.S.S.R.Mike_J wrote:
That would be a temporary infringement upon my implied rights in the worst case scenerio. Point out all the shit you guys want, because no matter what you say, making an effort is better than doing nothing at all. Maybe I'm stupid, but it just occurs to me that your physical well being is more important than your private sex phone call with "Mary Jane Rottencrotch." You know why? Noone gives a fuck.
Well, you can always move to the U.S.S.R, or another country like the former, of course, you will need to leave God here as He is not welcome there.Mike_J wrote:
I can't stand all this complaining..."Patriot Act this" and "Illegal wire tapping that." Your everyday normal life isn't any more noticeably different than it was before all this terrorist shit was taken seriously. Stop worrying! It accomplishes nothing. You'll be alot happier. Everything happens as it should. Trust God...if you believe in Him.
You are obviously a dumbass, so I will save myself some carpel-tunnel on this one. I figure I'll probably need it in a few minutes when you reply back with something along the lines of hippy liberal, conspiracy nut, crazy man, whiner.Mike_J wrote:
Sheesh, give it up with the Halliburton stuff too. They beat the competition in bidding for government contracts and are the most efficient at performing the tasks required. I'd certainly offer my money to a company that is willing to take less of it and do a better job. I guess I forgot that since it is Cheney's FORMER company, conspiracy must be attached. I assume Iraq is better off being rebuilt by Joe's construction company down on WS Young. Give it a rest, at least until the government takes away your right to acquire happiness. Yes it's still here too, however hard it may be to attain.
You make some good points and the majority of people agree with you that America is headed in the wrong direction. I think you overstate the potential trouble like martial law and such. Also I support maintaining the fundamentals of the constitution but in perspective they never meant it for modern America. Freedom of speech was to call the king of England a cunt, all men created equal was for white men, and freedom of religion was just freedom from protestants. However calling America Facist or Imperialst is just an exaggeration.
They just announced not to long ago that the world supply wasn't running out & that at our current level of use we would have enough for at least another 140 years, that is plenty of time to come up with other sources.
I hear what you are saying though, the ID cards are disturbing to me & the direction the government is heading is alarming.
I have believed that we needed to exercise our right to disband the government & put a new one in its place, but that is another thing all together.
I will not tell other people about it because it does no good, they all for the most part are pacified by their TV telling them what & when to think, I will not join their flawed system of politics because that would be becoming one of them, if you don't play the game & make compromises you don't get anywhere.
For a change to happen we would need all of the people in agreement & our 2 party system divides us.
I love my country as well & would like to do something but there isn't much I can do without everyone else.
Voting is a sham as we all saw the presidency bought last time, what would you purpose us to do?
I'm open to any suggestions or ideas. We need leaders, where have they all gone.
I hear what you are saying though, the ID cards are disturbing to me & the direction the government is heading is alarming.
I have believed that we needed to exercise our right to disband the government & put a new one in its place, but that is another thing all together.
I will not tell other people about it because it does no good, they all for the most part are pacified by their TV telling them what & when to think, I will not join their flawed system of politics because that would be becoming one of them, if you don't play the game & make compromises you don't get anywhere.
For a change to happen we would need all of the people in agreement & our 2 party system divides us.
I love my country as well & would like to do something but there isn't much I can do without everyone else.
Voting is a sham as we all saw the presidency bought last time, what would you purpose us to do?
I'm open to any suggestions or ideas. We need leaders, where have they all gone.
We as Americans have become complacent and as such the govt has taken advantage imo. I suspect the PNAC and Patriot 1/2, among other things, are feelers to judge thier abilities and the American complancency levels. This isnt the 60's when we riot if our govt doesnt listen to us. Now we just say harsh words and shake our fist.. maybe make a youtbue video.Trollmeat wrote:
I love my country as well & would like to do something but there isn't much I can do without everyone else.
Look, I'll make this real simple for you. I see that you are from Ft. Hood. That means you are either in the army or know someone who is. If it was you in the army, do you remember when you took the oath? I do. It said as I said, that I will protect the United States constitution from all enemies, foriegn and domestic.... I still hold that sentence in the highest of regards. It does not say "I will protect George W. Bush and his administration and policies from all foriegn terrorists.", it says the constitution. When a President, agency, administation, ect, unlawfully infringes on that document and what it says, especially when they make steps towards voiding or ignoring it, it is our solem duty as American's to stand up and protect it and by God I fucking will.Mike_J wrote:
You assumed the worst in every response you quoted me. That's what's wrong. You assume the dairy shop became a porno shop when in fact it became a more expansive dairy shop able to supply more people. You want to live in 1775 America? It must've been better according to you. Spreading what is right is wrong? There's sort of a universal idea of what right is. You might be familiar with it. It's something along the lines of kindness and integrity. Hey but I guess spreading that is just as bad as spreading radical Islamic ideology. It maybe the same in that it is imposing ideals on others, but one just happens to benefit mankind. Do you honestly think you've lost your rights? I'm sure there were people just like you in previous American conflicts that protested against having some right temporarily supressed even though it actually ended up benefiting their life when they didn't get killed by the enemy. My answer to you is still in my first post. Read it again without assuming your country is out to take everything from you. By all means please do give me a response for the Halliburton thing. You cannot deny what I said is true.Cougar wrote:
Say you opened up a dairy shop. 60 years later you come back and find that your grandchildren have turned it into a porno shop with a small dairy section in the back, how would you feel? Would you be capable of running a porno shop when all you know is dairy?Mike_J wrote:
I suppose the words from the Founding Fathers are eternal truths, practically advice from God himself. I doubt the Founding Fathers would be capable of running today's United States.Yes, ask anyone else on these forums that is from a different nation and they will tell you how gleeful they are about how we are imposing our beliefs on them. Also, ask them what we have accomplished for them in the past 40 years. Korea was the last, somewhat decent and selfless thing we did. Don't even try to come back with the Kuwait arguement because you and I both know that if there was no oil there, Saddam would be chilling in his Kuwaiti jaccuzzi as we speak.Mike_J wrote:
Today's United States makes more of an effort to spread its benefits to others selflessly rather than solely to its own people. Don't give me all of that corrupt shit of politician's personal interests, because that is far from outweighing what the US accomplishes for the benefit of everyone.Are you fucking serious? It is not YOUR or ANYONE elses place to be spreading what YOU think is a righteous ideology. Thats called a crusade you dumbass, and it's exactly why all of our ex-allies hate us now. It's also (ironically) what we are supposedly fighting against! Also, you don't think that a government that would listen to your every phone call, without probable cause, is a big deal?! That sounds like something straight out of 1984! The loss of privacy is the first step to the loss of freedom.Mike_J wrote:
I read many assumptions in the OP. Powerful assumptions that most probably overlooked and assume are truths. Some good points though too. Hey, if it is a radical ideology to try and spread righteousness, then call me a fascist. Like Cougar mentioned- "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.--Edmund Burke" Oh but wait, I'd rather not have my phone call to Betty Sue possibly monitored (because by all means I don't believe the government when they spell out their wire tapping guidelines) during tense times than have my government look out my physical safety against someone who will do anything to kill me or my fellow citizens and in general good people.Yeah, actually you are stupid. A temporary infringement upon your rights is still an infringement upon your rights. The Bill of Rights is the LAW OF THE LAND, it's the very building block of everything our country and laws are built upon. If they don't have a problem with breaking the law and you don't have a problem with them breaking the law, then who's to stop them when they decide to break all of them? How would you feel if they just kicked in your door in the middle of the night and took all of your guns away? Temporary infringement? What if a platoon of soldiers just waltzed into your house and threw you into the street and said "this is our base now, get lost"? Temporary INFRINGEMENT!? Dumbass! What you describe is exactly how another country used to operate. It was called the U.S.S.R.Mike_J wrote:
That would be a temporary infringement upon my implied rights in the worst case scenerio. Point out all the shit you guys want, because no matter what you say, making an effort is better than doing nothing at all. Maybe I'm stupid, but it just occurs to me that your physical well being is more important than your private sex phone call with "Mary Jane Rottencrotch." You know why? Noone gives a fuck.
Well, you can always move to the U.S.S.R, or another country like the former, of course, you will need to leave God here as He is not welcome there.Mike_J wrote:
I can't stand all this complaining..."Patriot Act this" and "Illegal wire tapping that." Your everyday normal life isn't any more noticeably different than it was before all this terrorist shit was taken seriously. Stop worrying! It accomplishes nothing. You'll be alot happier. Everything happens as it should. Trust God...if you believe in Him.You are obviously a dumbass, so I will save myself some carpel-tunnel on this one. I figure I'll probably need it in a few minutes when you reply back with something along the lines of hippy liberal, conspiracy nut, crazy man, whiner.Mike_J wrote:
Sheesh, give it up with the Halliburton stuff too. They beat the competition in bidding for government contracts and are the most efficient at performing the tasks required. I'd certainly offer my money to a company that is willing to take less of it and do a better job. I guess I forgot that since it is Cheney's FORMER company, conspiracy must be attached. I assume Iraq is better off being rebuilt by Joe's construction company down on WS Young. Give it a rest, at least until the government takes away your right to acquire happiness. Yes it's still here too, however hard it may be to attain.
You know, like I mentioned in the earlier post about the good far outweighing the bad, you have to do what you can even if your teammates aren't as motivated as you. Your teammate's slip up might make the headline, but it doesn't mean the good you do isn't worth the effort.
I don't see a low-life terrorists abolishing our constitution and bill of rights any time soon, nor do I think they have the means, but this administration sure as fuck does, and has.
Well, since you asked…Spearhead wrote:
Same here. We don't want to bring the parties into this.. but.. I think Cougar explained himself very well. I just wanna see what ATG has to say about this post.golgoj4 wrote:
Great post man. I wanna ask all the neo-cons where they stand on this.
I agree with all the things he said about what our government has turned into, and think this is a bigger problem than terrorism by a Kentucky mile.
I agree with him when it comes to American public. Many college educated kids know nothing about how our government works, have no interest in politics and couldn't tell you one persons name on the supreme court. The average person who is not educated but otherwise a fine citizen is shockingly uninvolved and unaware of what is going on. The U.S. holds no great claim to civic genius, in fact its true; we are a violent, dullard, and easily manipulated culture. I know many successful people and quite a few workaday joes yet I can rely on one or two to consistently vote, and when they do, its often party line for people, and best guesses for the other ballot items.
We have a representative republic, where we elect people to do the right thing for us, and not a democracy where every person has an equal say in all matters. Sadly, many Americans have abandoned their duty to stay informed and think about things, and consequently we have elected villains who have gone from serving the country to being served by it.
Its hard to have a peaceful society when the government does such a excellent job of making petty theft and corruption a standard. Let alone when they are ripping off billions in a time of war.
I really cant complain about our society being anti-anarchism, or anti-communism, but I also really can’t see how our country is engaging in anti-liberalism. You may point to discrimination and against gays as being anti-liberal, but I would point to our lack of border enforcement as being extremely liberal, in a back door sort of sneaky way. We are evolving, slowly but surely, and have evolved . There are no more lynching and colored only drinking fountains.Now that you are done thinking about that, go back and re-read the definition of fascism. Tell me that doesn't sound an awful lot like what America is becoming. All of the parts of the definition, corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism are all part of our government, economy and social structure and WE DON'T EVEN NOTICE.
As to his numbered points.
1) Scary, but true. And hello Greater American Union with no borders and a common currency. Fuck.
2)
It seems to me that, between new oil discoveries, better technology and alternative fuel sources, we’ll be alright. Should the population continue to expand in a linear fashion it will double in twenty year, but that is unlikely. We are overdue for a major die-off either through plague, war, impact or volcano. So the survivors will have plenty of gas. There are known and unknown alternative fuels. Things may not always be as they are now. The futurist a decade ago were saying that right about now major wars would be raging in Africa over water rights, now its global warming and blah de blah de blah….
I think Cougar has understandably become a little cynical.
I honestly believe there was a good case to be made that by establishing freedom and democracy in the Middle East we would get those people to settle down, join the modern world and stop causing trouble. Bush has explained all this a zillion times but the message got lost and over shouted by the unfathomable voices of the likes of Ted Kennedy and the liberal media. You don’t think the media is liberal? Foley’s email is big time fucking news baby. The trouble is, they had the info 6 months ago and this is a tired ruse that actually has a name; The October Surprise. You don’t think the voices of elected American officials calling for the impeachment of Bush for lying about the war is egging on the enemy? Causing more lost lives? Making the war last longer?
My best solution is to institute a one term rule. No politician may ever hold more than one elected office.
If they were effected by the stupid ass laws and stuff they pass there would not be half as many. Career politicians will be the death of us all, that is, of course discounting the plague, war, impact or volcano.
Either way, yes, the whole world is pretty well jiggered.
I sure do. In fact, I joined because of the "cheesy" altruistic reasons. I personally do however, hold my belief in God and righteousness higher than that of the Constitution. No, I'm not a Bible thumping (or Christian for that matter), caucasian, warmongering, republican either. I think a person's unalienable, basic rights defined in the Declaration of Independence should be defended before that person's constitutionally implied right of privacy, especially when temporarily supressing it would advance their safety. I trust the government on that wire tapping thing because even if they went against the guidelines (it even has a defined time limit) they set for it, I doubt they would have the patience, time, or stupidity to sift through countless hours of mostly worthless conversation. Even if they did listen to what I had to say to my parents or friends why should I care? I haven't done or have any intention of doing anything illegal. I'm not assuming the worst, as in the loss of my other rights, and more especially, my basic human rights, but if it did come down to that, of course I'd take action. Then again, this is the only example of what I think has the potential to violate my rights. Is there something else you're referring to in your seeming fear of an administration out to destroy the country? I certainly live my life as I did before 9/11 and this terrorist scare in a social aspect.
Last edited by Mike_J (2006-10-07 23:57:36)
Please, Cougar. It started off well, but as I read on I could see that you already live in an Orwellian fantasy.
That is SO Kafkaesque.messfeeder wrote:
Please, Cougar. It started off well, but as I read on I could see that you already live in an Orwellian fantasy.
Tripe.. Bush's brilliant grandiose stragy for winning peace and tranquility in the middle east foiled by blue blooded bleeding heart commies like the Kennedy's ..dont forget to blame faggots. I guess right wingers percieve any news that isnt reported with FOX news' conservative biased slant is automatically liberal. Ignoring of course the fact that his continually plummting opinion polls and any reporting critically of the Republican party and this administration might actually be becuase of the piss poor total shit performace.ATG wrote:
Bush has explained all this a zillion times but the message got lost and over shouted by the unfathomable voices of the likes of Ted Kennedy and the liberal media.
Really? I mean it's possible but why not wait till Nov? you really think that every media outlet said we got a story but lets hold onto it till election time?.. Wait even if that sceanrio is true then certainly the Republicans were aware of it as well? Sure the group of gay bashers woulndt try to hide or condone gay child molestation. Do you even know hoe the story was leaked ? Look it up a republican GOP staffer leaked it ..oh but the liberal media held it back in some conspiracy consencus..ATG wrote:
Foley’s email is big time fucking news baby. The trouble is, they had the info 6 months ago and this is a tired ruse that actually has a name; The October Surprise.
It would appear as if most of you guys haven't figure out by this point that the media is not the vigilant watchdog, protecting the public as of days of old. Most (all) mainstream media outlets are owned by corporations that are owned by larger corporations who usually have a few board members in congress or the senate.
When was the last time you read something great about republicans on CNN?
When was the last time you read something great about democrats on FOX?
That isn't an accident.
When was the last time you read something great about republicans on CNN?
When was the last time you read something great about democrats on FOX?
That isn't an accident.
Its cool you understood it and wouldve just had some ignorant response anyhowATG wrote:
Your post is incoherent. Try again. Nevermind, I'm not interested.
I'll be more inclined to respond to you if you take the time to use the fucking spell check.
You expect me to take you seriously?
You ideas are bad enough, you should consider at least trying to present them well.
You expect me to take you seriously?
You ideas are bad enough, you should consider at least trying to present them well.
Last edited by ATG (2006-10-08 01:04:59)
ATG, that is comprehensible...I mean compare it to Lisik? Respond to him for my sake, it's late, I can't sleep, and I'm interested in what you have to say. Pleeeeeeeease?