kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6804|Southeastern USA
So as we have seen over the past few decades, no organization is without some degree of scandal, the major difference seems to be in how they handle such disasters. And yes this is in regards to the foley affair.

back many millenia ago, when I was but a wee tyke, in 1983, this became an issue in congress as well, only in a double dose, there was republican dan crane, cannot recall state but will edit, and democrat gerry studds (dunno if it's pronounced "jerry" or "gary", hear it both ways) of massachusetts (one state which i will never live in apparently).

Dan Crane was caught having an affair with a 17 year old female page, Studds a 17 year old male. Neither denied it, and the HEC merely reprimanded each. That's about where the similarity stops.

Congress did, however decide to censure each of them, and while Crane stood and took his sentence like a man (as Studd's page did while working "under" him), Studds turned his back on the speaker's podium while the sentence of censure was read aloud for public record.

Crane issued a teary eyed apology in front of the world for what he did, and rightly so, at the time Republican Newt Gingrich of Georgia very vocally called for the expulsion of each of them, and while he did not get his wish, Crane found himself without the support of his party or his constituents, and lost re-election in 84 (why he bothered is beyond me).

Studds, in addition to turning his back on the speaker, Tip Oneill -Democrat- Massachussetts, later held a press conference to state that although the page (who was present at the conference) was only 17, the relationship was completely consentual, and no one else's business. After all, he had flown the boy to Morocco to instigate the sexual relationship, and therefore didn't break any american laws, nanny nanny poo poo, stick your head in doo doo.

Crane, abandoned by his party for his failings, faded out of existence.

Studds, much like Barney Frank (who ATG has already addressed, had a young lover, I mean assistant, living at his apartment from which he, the lover, was running a male escort service at times with underage boys) Democrat-Massachussetts (ok this whole Mass. thing is getting ridiculous), went on to become one of the Democrat party and the gay rights movement's glory boys, his ephebophilic affair and controversy a red badge of courage as opposed to a scarlet letter of shame. He went on to represent his district with full backing of the democratic party until 1996. Often referencing the critiscism of his affair with his page in gay rights speeches and such, to illustrate how unfair society is towards gays, ignoring the fact that Crane had received the same treatment, could the age have been the focal point Mr Studds?

So, in short you have:

Crane, and Foley (not yet accused of having intercourse, unless I missed something today, but who's actions are still inexcusable) republicans, run out of town on a rail by leading members of their own party as well as their constituents after their inappropriate conduct had been exposed.

Studds and Frank (today still a fully supported member of the dem party, and who uses his controversy as a "bonus" as well), democrats, not only supported by their parties, but whose scandals have actually been used to bolster their careers.

Just a subtle difference to consider, especially if you're planning on moving to Massachussetts with Ted and Kerry.

edit: added link to ATG's thread, and wished I had a way to rename thread to "Reasons to avoid Massachussetts"

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-10-03 22:23:39)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6784|Global Command
Oh yes, the standards to which we hold our public officials too and to which the unwashed masses depend upon them for their own thoughts never fails to amaze me.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6975|California

Pedophiles assisting in the running of the Worlds greatest nation. Makes me question the fundamentals on which this country was founded.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6804|Southeastern USA
I'm just amazed that a man-boy-love relationship can become a selling point, daaaaaammmmn Massachussetts!! Wassup wit dat!!!
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6784|Global Command
Lol
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6816
I fail to see how Mr Frank and Mr Foley are comparable:  Mr Frank may be morally reprehensible, but legally he did nothing wrong.  Mr Foley appears to have proposed sexual acts to a minor.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6784|Global Command
Yes lizard, but one is supported by his peers and both are immoral.

So which party has the high ground?
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6816
How about the one that says "America being a free country, we allow the voters to decide matters if a senator hasn't committed a crime".
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7084

ATG wrote:

Yes lizard, but one is supported by his peers and both are immoral.

So which party has the high ground?
It sounds like the question should be which party has the lowest ground?
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6804|Southeastern USA

Bubbalo wrote:

I fail to see how Mr Frank and Mr Foley are comparable:  Mr Frank may be morally reprehensible, but legally he did nothing wrong.  Mr Foley appears to have proposed sexual acts to a minor.
running a male escort service whether or not it involved teens from your apartment is illegal (which Frank's did), Frank's excuse "I didn't know that was going on, honest guys, come on", and the house majority leader, a democrat, dropped the investigation.

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-10-04 05:26:20)

Korpen
Member
+6|6675

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

ATG wrote:

Yes lizard, but one is supported by his peers and both are immoral.

So which party has the high ground?
It sounds like the question should be which party has the lowest ground?
Definately, lol, it just proves that every party has its disadvantages/failures.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6804|Southeastern USA
that would be one of my points, the other one being which party actually does something about it
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6882
Thus far, neither party has done anything about it.  Can you say the "good ole boy " syndrome.
Darth_Fleder
Mod from the Church of the Painful Truth
+533|7061|Orlando, FL - Age 43
Let's not forget Robert KKK Byrd, who actively participated in the filibuster AGAINST civil rights.

Robert Byrd In a letter to Mississippi Senator Bilbo in 1947 wrote:

"never submit to fight beneath the banner [the American flag] with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."
Many issues do not cut both ways....be it sexual misconduct or civil rights. Imagine the outrage if a leading republican had referred to New Orleans as a 'chocolate city'. I don't think that a republican could get away with calling Hershey, PA. a chocolate city.

Another thing to consider is lack of coverage of yesterdays new ALL-TIME high of the DOW industrials. While much was laid at GW's doorstep for the recession shortly after he took office...no notice is being taken of how ROBUST the economy is now.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7012|Argentina

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Let's not forget Robert KKK Byrd, who actively participated in the filibuster AGAINST civil rights.

Robert Byrd In a letter to Mississippi Senator Bilbo in 1947 wrote:

"never submit to fight beneath the banner [the American flag] with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."
Many issues do not cut both ways....be it sexual misconduct or civil rights. Imagine the outrage if a leading republican had referred to New Orleans as a 'chocolate city'. I don't think that a republican could get away with calling Hershey, PA. a chocolate city.

Another thing to consider is lack of coverage of yesterdays new ALL-TIME high of the DOW industrials. While much was laid at GW's doorstep for the recession shortly after he took office...no notice is being taken of how ROBUST the economy is now.
How robust is it?  What do you do to find out, you watch the DOW or you ask people in the street?  You may get to different conclusions.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-10-04 07:30:50)

Darth_Fleder
Mod from the Church of the Painful Truth
+533|7061|Orlando, FL - Age 43
Let's see:
Dow is at an all time high
Home ownership is at or near all time highs
Unemployment is very low
GDP has been growing for the past 4 years...at times setting benchmarks
Wages are up
Inflation is low
Interest rates are still very low

The only blip on the radar are gasoline prices...which are tumbling and predicted to return to approx $1.25/gal.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6804|Southeastern USA
gas fell under 2 bucks here last week
Aenima_Eyes
Member
+20|6907
See. . .it's all the Republicans fault.  If they'd just let gays marry each other then this would never have become an issue.  Barney Frank wouldn't have been running a prostitution ring out of Capitol Hill, and Foley could have just married that 17 yr old kid or w/e instead of having to sneak around sending him dirty IMs and e-mails. 
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6882

kr@cker wrote:

gas fell under 2 bucks here last week
Wouldn't have anything to do with the upcoming elections now would it.  Geez, what am I thinking, that would be a conspiracy.  I mean the price of oil is at $58 a barrel, same as it was 8 months ago when gas was $2.65 here.

Last edited by GATOR591957 (2006-10-04 13:11:23)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6804|Southeastern USA

GATOR591957 wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

gas fell under 2 bucks here last week
Wouldn't have anything to do with the upcoming elections now would it.  Geez, what am I thinking, that would be a conspiracy.  I mean the price of oil is at $58 a barrel, same as it was 8 months ago when gas was $2.65 here.
oh my holy christ that's a good one, I've just favorited this page
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|6977|Eastern PA

kr@cker wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

gas fell under 2 bucks here last week
Wouldn't have anything to do with the upcoming elections now would it.  Geez, what am I thinking, that would be a conspiracy.  I mean the price of oil is at $58 a barrel, same as it was 8 months ago when gas was $2.65 here.
oh my holy christ that's a good one, I've just favorited this page
Ahem...

And, re: Studds, while he didn't resign (you can't force a member of congress to resign), because of House Democratic Caucus rules, he was forced to give up chairman ship of a subcommitte he led. That clearly wasn't the case with Foley. It appears the leadership knew of this (according to Boehner, Reynolds, and their staff members, even as far back as 2001) yet Foley wasn't "demoted" or repremanded in any way before his resignation.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6804|Southeastern USA
ahem, nowhere in mr woodward's wonderful piece did I see the actual saudi memo, maybe he can get Dan to write one up for him

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, since I don't know what hemisphere you're in, but here every election year we are told that dropping gas prices are an evil republican ploy, hey, if that's being mean, go right ahead. Since I just had to purchase a quarter million gallons of propane, and have been in the gas industry for 12 years, allow me to enlighten you. There are 2 times a year when petroleum products are in high demand, the first being summer, due to increased travel and vacation, the second conversely is winter, for heating purposes, in full swing the law of supply and demand comes in to effect, as demand goes up, so do prices. Right before the petroleum products are in demand however, all the petrol companies are trying to ramp up their stockpiles before the rush starts, this results in an increased supply at a time when demand is relatively average, which triggers the "price wars"  as these companies try to vy for business, this occurs in late spring-early summer and early fall.
Other than filling my car, the first one doesn't matter to me much, I've got to go places, so I go. The fall rush is the one that I have to pay attention to, as I have to wait until right before the prices start to go up to top off my tanks.Once you start seeing most of the nation covered in 40 degree lows on a regular basis, usually mid december-ish and sometimes as late as january (haven't gotten a farmer's almanac this year). Next year, when there is no election, the same thing will happen. Some of us that live farther north than may see this occur a little sooner, espcially if their home is oil heated.

You are also confusing the rather benign, non-sexual emails (the worst one asked for a picture, the parents requested Foley quit pestering the page, and also requested the matter not be pursued further) of old, which Foley had already been confronted with and asked to discontinue, with the newly released IM's (these actually being sexually explicit), which upon seeing Hastert immediately called for Foley's resignation. Many of these same newspapers also had transcripts of the original emails and decided not to run the story because it was groundless back then, and judging from their current behavior I don't think there's any doubt they would have if they had some substance to them. There simply was no reason to reprimand for sexual misconduct until last week, Haster just skipped that part and went straight to "get the fuck out".

plz note,
""don't get too wrapped up in him being too nice to you and all that kind of stuff."

no reference to anything sexual in nature, nor was there any reference that party leaders had been notified of any

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-10-04 21:51:10)

cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6951|NJ
I gave this a once over, and either party it's people abusing there positions of power and being protected by other people of power. It has nothing to do with Dem or Rep, it has to do with illness.

Now Foley's running around and throwing out Child Abuse from a catholic church and alcolism. Also like the chatholic church he was protected by everyone on capital hill it's disgusting.  And no one is taking blame for it's ongoing

ON an other note I have 8/1 odds that they don't find porn or anyone confesses to him actually touching them  by the end of the month... So I got 10 dollars that I'm probably going to lose, but I might make 80
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6804|Southeastern USA
just saw that studds died, what timing

http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.d … -2&ck=
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6964|Wilmington, DE, US

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Let's not forget Robert KKK Byrd, who actively participated in the filibuster AGAINST civil rights.

Robert Byrd In a letter to Mississippi Senator Bilbo in 1947 wrote:

"never submit to fight beneath the banner [the American flag] with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."
Many issues do not cut both ways....be it sexual misconduct or civil rights. Imagine the outrage if a leading republican had referred to New Orleans as a 'chocolate city'. I don't think that a republican could get away with calling Hershey, PA. a chocolate city.

Another thing to consider is lack of coverage of yesterdays new ALL-TIME high of the DOW industrials. While much was laid at GW's doorstep for the recession shortly after he took office...no notice is being taken of how ROBUST the economy is now.
And let's look at Trent Lott...oh wait, he's a Republican.

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