BF2S Forums Tyranny, torture legalized - Detainee bill passes - Bush FTW

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

Ok...since you're too thick or just being disagreable...

Main Entry: hos·til·i·ty (From the Meriam Webster Dictionary)
Pronunciation: hä-'sti-l&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 a : deep-seated usually mutual ill will b (1) : hostile action (2) plural : overt acts of warfare : WAR

Shooting, Bombing, Killing = WARFARE........FTW

Again, where did you get the shooting, bombing and killing part? I didn't see it in that Webster dictionary entry.

And even if you are able to google something up, that may be how an Internet dictionary defines it, but Internet dictionaries have no legal bearing in American courts. American courts abide by the law.

The bill we're talking about here does not define "hostilities". YOU may define it as shooting, bombing or killing, but YOUR definition doesn't matter. The term is undefined, therefore it is left open to the Pentagon as to what constitutes "hostilities".

LOL...ROFL....that is so horrendously bad logic I can't stop laughling.   Cause everyone at the Pentagon is stupid and can read a dictionary and doesn't know the meaning of "hostilities."  Oh wait...most of the Pentagon are military officers with degrees, many from service academies (they're the dumb ones).

Um, legal definitions are completely different from oxford's. If the pentagon wanted to define it differently for legal purposes their definition would have nothing to do with their ability to read a dictionary.

GATOR591957 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I sympathize with anyone who is unjustly treated. I am saddened when innocent people are hurt no matter how I feel on a particualr subject or what bill is passed. I expected more from you Cameron ..

It's harsh I know but I'm really sad for America today. They really did take a very serious turn for the worst. The US is no longer fit to preach morals and ethics to any other nation starting today and ending when that bill is torn up.

Agreed a very sad day.

Sometimes I meet people and think "wow, this person is a real moron", but then I think back to this forum and think "hey, this person is still smarter than a lot of people in the world". 

I hope they ban lead base paint in Ireland soon.

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

LOL...ROFL....that is so horrendously bad logic I can't stop laughling.   Cause everyone at the Pentagon is stupid and can read a dictionary and doesn't know the meaning of "hostilities."  Oh wait...most of the Pentagon are military officers with degrees, many from service academies (they're the dumb ones).

Um, legal definitions are completely different from oxford's. If the pentagon wanted to define it differently for legal purposes their definition would have nothing to do with their ability to read a dictionary.

Come on guys...seriously, you can "oh my god the big bad pentagon is going to twist this legally to do what they want..." all day long, it doesn't make it true.  If anything the military will err on the side of caution because there are JAG lawyers everywhere and no senior officer wants to see his career go up in smoke because of a bad call (Trust me, I was an officer).

I was merely pointing out that your comment on the intelligence of pentagon officials was completely unrelated to  the topic you were adressing.

Major_Spittle wrote:

Your posts always cheer me up Cameron.  Did you buy a set of Castro Ears while in Cuba?

Why do you care where he takes his holiday?

More importantly, what does that have to do with the topic? What are your thoughts on the bill? And what are your thoughts on the fact that the Senate and House Republicans overwhelmingly supported it?

We're well over 100 posts so far, and I have yet to see anything substantial from our conservative brethren. Lots of anti-liberal piss and vinegar, a bit of "they're not doing anything bad - trust them", a lot of "where's that in the bill, I can't find it".

Not to mention a complete lack of appreciation about how our legal system works.

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

The bill we're talking about here does not define "hostilities". YOU may define it as shooting, bombing or killing, but YOUR definition doesn't matter. The term is undefined, therefore it is left open to the Pentagon as to what constitutes "hostilities".

LOL...ROFL....that is so horrendously bad logic I can't stop laughling.   Cause everyone at the Pentagon is stupid and can read a dictionary and doesn't know the meaning of "hostilities."  Oh wait...most of the Pentagon are military officers with degrees, many from service academies (they're the dumb ones).

The thing is, this isn't my logic - this is me trying to explain the logic of American law.

But let's be realistic here. Lamcrmbem (how do you pronounce that?) is saying that it doesn't matter if the language is vague, because the administration and the Pentagon are all smart, and because it would be bad for them career-wise to break laws.

For me it's not enough. Our country, like it or not, is a legal one. Other countries have person-to-person handshakes, we have legally-binding contracts. I prefer laws that are specific enough so that when someone commits a crime, they don't walk free due to a legal loophole. Personal preference.

My personal favorite post so far would be the "kid pushing his dinner plate away, stomping upstairs to his room and slamming his door" post.

Colfax wrote:

I'm done with this topic you guys are set in your ways and can't even see something right infront of your face.

Ship_Builder i'm sry you're to dumb to understand the hostilities =(shooting, bombing, killing) or has purposefully and materially supported hostilities (gave money, materiel, intelligence, etc to the enemy).

Colfax has disconnected from this thread

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

My personal favorite post so far would be the "kid pushing his dinner plate away, stomping upstairs to his room and slamming his door" post.

Colfax wrote:

I'm done with this topic you guys are set in your ways and can't even see something right infront of your face.

Ship_Builder i'm sry you're to dumb to understand the hostilities =(shooting, bombing, killing) or has purposefully and materially supported hostilities (gave money, materiel, intelligence, etc to the enemy).

Colfax has disconnected from this thread

no that would be my cival way at saying

lets agree to disagree

I could of said something childish like you just did.  But i guess i'm better then that.  Because what are we actually solving?  Nothing.  Am i changing your opinion? No.  Are you changing mine? NO!
So i decided to step away from the topic for a bit because you libs on this site actually make me want to take stupid medication so i can come down to your level and even try and understand the crap thats coming out of your mouths.  So I'm sorry Builder of Ships next time i just won't put anything.

My personal fav. post was the original one that takes his information from a biased source and tries to protray it as fact.  Then upon recieving facts from others tries to discredit their facts with other crap that doesnt even make sense.

Oh and sry jonsimon i was at work and had more important things to do.  and i was tryin to comprehend what you were even asking me to do and gave up because you dont make any sense.

Major_Spittle wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

It's harsh I know but I'm really sad for America today. They really did take a very serious turn for the worst. The US is no longer fit to preach morals and ethics to any other nation starting today and ending when that bill is torn up.

Agreed a very sad day.

Sometimes I meet people and think "wow, this person is a real moron", but then I think back to this forum and think "hey, this person is still smarter than a lot of people in the world". 

I hope they ban lead base paint in Ireland soon.

this is awesome...i will give you more karma tom. since i already gave some earlier today.  almost pissed myself reading it

Last edited by Colfax (2006-09-29 16:20:25)

Colfax wrote:

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

My personal favorite post so far would be the "kid pushing his dinner plate away, stomping upstairs to his room and slamming his door" post.

Colfax wrote:

I'm done with this topic you guys are set in your ways and can't even see something right infront of your face.

Ship_Builder i'm sry you're to dumb to understand the hostilities =(shooting, bombing, killing) or has purposefully and materially supported hostilities (gave money, materiel, intelligence, etc to the enemy).

Colfax has disconnected from this thread

no that would be my cival way at saying

lets agree to disagree

I could of said something childish like you just did.  But i guess i'm better then that.  Because what are we actually solving?  Nothing.  Am i changing your opinion? No.  Are you changing mine? NO!
So i decided to step away from the topic for a bit because you libs on this site actually make me want to take stupid medication so i can come down to your level and even try and understand the crap thats coming out of your mouths.  So I'm sorry Builder of Ships next time i just won't put anything.

My personal fav. post was the original one that takes his information from a biased source and tries to protray it as fact.  Then upon recieving facts from others tries to discredit their facts with other crap that doesnt even make sense.

Oh and sry jonsimon i was at work and had more important things to do.  and i was tryin to comprehend what you were even asking me to do and gave up because you dont make any sense.

The cliche "lets agree to disagree" is more civil than what you said. And you are saying some fairly childish things. Frankly, no one's opinion in the debate section is being changed, maybe you should take a hiatus from it? I'm glad you feel the same way we do about each other's stubborness.

No problem, I win our little debate if you fail to respond, so trust me, I'm not complaining.

You can win...(handshake)

Colfax wrote:

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

My personal favorite post so far would be the "kid pushing his dinner plate away, stomping upstairs to his room and slamming his door" post.

Colfax wrote:

I'm done with this topic you guys are set in your ways and can't even see something right infront of your face.

Ship_Builder i'm sry you're to dumb to understand the hostilities =(shooting, bombing, killing) or has purposefully and materially supported hostilities (gave money, materiel, intelligence, etc to the enemy).

Colfax has disconnected from this thread

no that would be my cival way at saying

lets agree to disagree

I could of said something childish like you just did.

Something childish like "i'm sry you're to dumb"? Glad you didn't.

Colfax wrote:

My personal fav. post was the original one that takes his information from a biased source and tries to protray it as fact.  Then upon recieving facts from others tries to discredit their facts with other crap that doesnt even make sense.

Really! Which post is that? It can't be mine, because my original post IS fact. so far no one has proven otherwise, including yourself. You try to discount the things that people say on here, and say that people are wrong, but when you get a retort you resort to "you're to dumb".

Shipbuilder, you haven't responded to my last three posts, discrediting your original post.

Major_Spittle wrote:

I think the Democrats in the government are the terrorist's greatest ally

Really.

Colfax wrote:

Nothing is finite.  Law means nothing.  Laws can be changed and changed back.  You follow the laws in place and your fine.  Don't act like a terrorist and you're fine [period]

Brilliant logic.  But since you aren't American, I'll fill you in on something...  I'll start with this quote from someone who understands what freedom is who would challenge Bush to a duel if he were alive today..
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” _Benjamin Franklin

In the USA, we have made a name for ourselves by our unique constitution that has inspired other such liberties in other countries, including the UK, France, and others.  Among the very basic rights Americans should be expected to have at ALL times are those found in the ammendments to the constitution..like the freedom from illegal search and seizure (patriot act and this bill infringe upon that in the name of 'protecting us').  Another important right prisoners of the US have is Habeus Corpus which is, as of this passing bill, suspended.  Only one other corrupt Republican has suspended Habeas Corpus, and that asshole was Abraham Lincoln.  Yep, he was president, Congress was not in session, so he ASSUMED congressional authority (violating constitutional government law requiring 3 seperate bodies of government) and imprisoned thousands who dissented against the civil war.  It was returned in 1866, 5 years after he suspended it.

Presidents DO NOT HAVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, to do such things.  Such a president should suffer the heaviest form of punishment after a "legal" trial.  It's that simple.

And YES, it is a big deal and it should be to EVERY citizen who gives a shit about this country (obviously you have no clue what freedom is).  Giving up constitutional rights to kill ANYONE should never happen.  In more ways than one, the so-called Terrorists are winning by causing us (paranoid chickenhawks like Bush) to give up liberties.  But such a degree of understanding is too much for Bush to fathom.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-09-29 16:46:32)

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Colfax wrote:

Nothing is finite.  Law means nothing.  Laws can be changed and changed back.  You follow the laws in place and your fine.  Don't act like a terrorist and you're fine [period]

Brilliant logic.  But since you aren't American, I'll fill you in on something...  I'll start with this quote from someone who understands what freedom is who would challenge Bush to a duel if he were alive today..
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” _Benjamin Franklin

In the USA, we have made a name for ourselves by our unique constitution that has inspired other such liberties in other countries, including the UK, France, and others.  Among the very basic rights Americans should be expected to have at ALL times are those found in the ammendments to the constitution..like the freedom from illegal search and seizure (patriot act and this bill infringe upon that in the name of 'protecting us').  Another important right prisoners of the US have is Habeus Corpus which is, as of this passing bill, suspended.  Only one other corrupt Republican has suspended Habeus Corpus, and that asshole was Abraham Lincoln.  Yep, he was president, Congress was not in session, so he ASSUMED congressional authority (violating constitutional government law requiring 3 seperate bodies of government) and imprisoned thousands who dissented against the civil war.  It was returned in 1866, 5 years after he suspended it.

Presidents DO NOT HAVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, to do such things.  Such a president should suffer the heaviest form of punishment after a "legal" trial.  It's that simple.

And YES, it is a big deal and it should be to EVERY citizen who gives a shit about this country (obviously you have no clue what freedom is).  Giving up constitutional rights to kill ANYONE should never happen.  In more ways than one, the so-called Terrorists are winning by causing us (paranoid chickenhawks like Bush) to give up liberties.  But such a degree of understanding is too much for Bush to fathom.

Excuse me...did you just call Abraham Lincoln an A$$hole?  Amazing!  I can officially stop listening to anything IRONCHEF has to say.  To think that you value yourself and your opionion so how that you can call one of our greatest presidents and arguably the only reason we are still a country today such a foul name is unbeliveable.

Ok, asshole for being the first republican, and being the unique bastard taht suspended habea corpus, imprisoning dissenters, yes.  Freeing slaves, imancipation proclamation, winning civil war, not an asshole.

And yes, diplomacy probably could have saved the greatest american bloodshed if he had listened to the dissenters and the south may have actually given in.  But we'll never know because of warmongers like Lincoln.