Tell that to Her majesty "Fidei Defensor" (Defender of the faith) while England may have an increasing secular society i'm sure they still consider themselves Christian even if some what lapsed. no?.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:
England isn't even close to being a Christian nation.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
I would say A-fucking-no. England is a Christian nation, they should have the right to say fuck off, its our nation. Call me racist but arent the muslims going a bit too far? London is like the vatican for the protestant church.
Anyway, if they want to waste hundreds of millions of pounds then I say let 'em.
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Europe is gona be mostly muslim within 100 years.
time to start changing all the logos to the Eurabian Union
Well we don't have any 'zero tolerance' policies such as this so i don't see why not. In my opinion this would be beneficial to the cityIG-Calibre wrote:
Given Saudi Arabia's zero tolerance for anything Christian in their country should it get the go ahead?
You should go up there check it out, take some pics ( in a non offensive way) and tell us about it. See what really goes on...sergeriver wrote:
Argentina is the third country in the world with more Jews. In the middle 90's Saudi Arabia bought a four squares terrain (I think there was a park there) and built a massive Mosque in the more expensive zone of Buenos Aires. I live 10 blocks from there and I must admit every time I drive my car by there I have this strange feeling about it. You never see a soul in the surroundings, people don't go there for any religious purpose, what the hell is this Mosque there for?
why they muslims should not have a mosque in london.
1. every time a muslim get buried at a mosque then they can't be reburied or removed from their tomb or grave because of religious ideas, that means that if we ever wanna remove that mosque then they will be both pissed over that we remove their mosque but also remove graves and then it's gonna be worse than the episode denmark just had.
2. the community around that most is properly gonna be very strong islamic after a few years.
3. if they wanna build a frigging mosque then build it in a mordern style instead of those towers they have in saudi.
4. if they want their mosque, then NO preaching with speakers outside the mosque at 4-5 o'clock in the moning as they do in saudi.
5. if they want their mosque then it should not only be a mosque but a place for all religions, races, and nationalities,
6. the mosque must do a good effort in integrate the muslims and poor people that live in the u.k into the british community.
7. no flaming of the west becuase they have done a little thing against allah, they can talk about it but no flaming by the priest.
8. if they want it huge make it a center for all religions instead and make a design contest to get the most modern and british style they can get. only british and immigrants with british nationality must attend the muslims that attend must at least be second link in a integrated family. the council that decide the building must be british 3 generations back and represent all of the british community (except goths and punks)(homos are allowed) the must be under 50 years old and over 16 years.
And yes we all know that this will never happen so no mosque guys.
1. every time a muslim get buried at a mosque then they can't be reburied or removed from their tomb or grave because of religious ideas, that means that if we ever wanna remove that mosque then they will be both pissed over that we remove their mosque but also remove graves and then it's gonna be worse than the episode denmark just had.
2. the community around that most is properly gonna be very strong islamic after a few years.
3. if they wanna build a frigging mosque then build it in a mordern style instead of those towers they have in saudi.
4. if they want their mosque, then NO preaching with speakers outside the mosque at 4-5 o'clock in the moning as they do in saudi.
5. if they want their mosque then it should not only be a mosque but a place for all religions, races, and nationalities,
6. the mosque must do a good effort in integrate the muslims and poor people that live in the u.k into the british community.
7. no flaming of the west becuase they have done a little thing against allah, they can talk about it but no flaming by the priest.
8. if they want it huge make it a center for all religions instead and make a design contest to get the most modern and british style they can get. only british and immigrants with british nationality must attend the muslims that attend must at least be second link in a integrated family. the council that decide the building must be british 3 generations back and represent all of the british community (except goths and punks)(homos are allowed) the must be under 50 years old and over 16 years.
And yes we all know that this will never happen so no mosque guys.
Last edited by motherdear (2006-09-26 07:54:31)
HAHA, When did i call you a racist fuck ? and now that's its "orite" to call you a racist fuck, i rather not. Anyway try not entering the "Debate and Serious talk" section, if you think everyone will have the same views as you and no one will debate .Rogue_Delta wrote:
yeah, it's 'orite', dude, cause youre focused on pointing out posts from people that dont share your post-communist-no-global-sorryass opinions. FYI, it's no, I do not have a religion, and yes, I am used to living in a free country. ask yourself why I wouldn't have a problem with a buddhist temple near my home before you call me a racist fuck, asshole.mafia996630 wrote:
Mecca was being sarcastic? Really ?.Rogue_Delta wrote:
macca was being sarcastic, maybe I wasn't. as I said in another post I am not talking about this or that lovely person but the majority of muslims for what they proved themselves even in Europe (take France or the Netherlands). I feel free to say I dont want a strong muslim community near to where I live. call me a dumb ignorant, Ill take it, but Im not going to change my mind about that. just my very personal opinion/feeling about it though. end of transmission.
SO its orite if i called you a racist fuck ? just out of interest, does your religion tell you to hate because of another persons religion? colour ? , that is , if you have a religion.
OKOK, I am taking a step back. didn't like how easy I got into the wrong words, anyway. sorry about that. still, that's my opinion, you know, I mean that's where I am standing as a free citizen. so, I guess I qualify for my own opinion when someone asks the question: Should Massive Mosque be built in london? I say under these circunmstances NO WAY.mafia996630 wrote:
HAHA, When did i call you a racist fuck ? and now that's its "orite" to call you a racist fuck, i rather not. Anyway try not entering the "Debate and Serious talk" section, if you think everyone will have the same views as you and no one will debate .Rogue_Delta wrote:
yeah, it's 'orite', dude, cause youre focused on pointing out posts from people that dont share your post-communist-no-global-sorryass opinions. FYI, it's no, I do not have a religion, and yes, I am used to living in a free country. ask yourself why I wouldn't have a problem with a buddhist temple near my home before you call me a racist fuck, asshole.mafia996630 wrote:
Mecca was being sarcastic? Really ?.
SO its orite if i called you a racist fuck ? just out of interest, does your religion tell you to hate because of another persons religion? colour ? , that is , if you have a religion.
I don't know why, but they're going to build a Mosque in my town to, in a little town with 25 000 people. Around 1000 of them is muslims so they just NEED the mosque, WTF!! we live in a christian country!! god dammitIG-Calibre wrote:
Basically a massive Mosque is being planned for East London, funded by mainly Saudi money. Given Saudi Arabia's zero tolerance for anything Christian in their country should it get the go ahead?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Stor … 49,00.html
Leave the mosques out of it. Just crack down on the extremists and those who preach extremism. Surely that can't be too hard to do.
A group who strongly condemn terrorist activities want to build a Centre to cater for 40k in easy reach of well over 100k Muslims. They want to build it in an eco-friendly manner and welcome non-Muslims who wish to make use of the facilities (e.g. conference rooms, dining halls etc.). Where's the problem? It's irrelevant what conditions are like overseas, and oppressing Muslims in this country because Christians are oppressed overseas is just going to perpetuate things.
With regards to dresscode I'd like to see it so that it's either both sexes or neither which have to cover their hair while on the premises, but I can understand that people have different standards of decency on their property so it's fine and irrelevant whatever the rules are. There are often dresscodes in posh restaurants and bars which specify a minimum standard of dress and coverage (e.g. no shirt no service), so there isn't much argument against it on that basis.
Christians are bound to whine because they are jealous of the fact that they wouldn't have a chance in hell of needing that sort of capacity even if had the imagination to attempt something like this. And ignorant sheep are bound say it will encourage terrorism because it's trendy.
With regards to dresscode I'd like to see it so that it's either both sexes or neither which have to cover their hair while on the premises, but I can understand that people have different standards of decency on their property so it's fine and irrelevant whatever the rules are. There are often dresscodes in posh restaurants and bars which specify a minimum standard of dress and coverage (e.g. no shirt no service), so there isn't much argument against it on that basis.
Christians are bound to whine because they are jealous of the fact that they wouldn't have a chance in hell of needing that sort of capacity even if had the imagination to attempt something like this. And ignorant sheep are bound say it will encourage terrorism because it's trendy.
You can't just reclaim ownership of the land because you feel like it. And anyway it's highly doubtful that they'll get permission for burials anyway. The only situation I can imagine where the mosque might be want to be removed/burned down is a 'Nazi stormtrooper/synagogue' type situation. So as far as I can see you are arguing against it because Britain might turn fascist and wouldn't want to piss the Muslims off when it does.motherdear wrote:
why they muslims should not have a mosque in london.
1. every time a muslim get buried at a mosque then they can't be reburied or removed from their tomb or grave because of religious ideas, that means that if we ever wanna remove that mosque then they will be both pissed over that we remove their mosque but also remove graves and then it's gonna be worse than the episode denmark just had.
It is already. Next.motherdear wrote:
2. the community around that most is properly gonna be very strong islamic after a few years.
Did you even read the article? It's going to be a modern building with alternative energy sources and an inclusive policy.motherdear wrote:
3. if they wanna build a frigging mosque then build it in a mordern style instead of those towers they have in saudi.
The EPA would take away their speakers....motherdear wrote:
4. if they want their mosque, then NO preaching with speakers outside the mosque at 4-5 o'clock in the moning as they do in saudi.
Hmmm, that's the idea.motherdear wrote:
5. if they want their mosque then it should not only be a mosque but a place for all religions, races, and nationalities,
The British community should stop being such a bunch of fucking arseholes towards the poor and the Muslims then. Obviously I'm talking in general terms, not attacking any specific individuals with that remark.motherdear wrote:
6. the mosque must do a good effort in integrate the muslims and poor people that live in the u.k into the british community.
I don't think they should be held to rules that the western media doesn't stick to. After all, flaming Muslims is one of Britains favourite pastimes at the moment.motherdear wrote:
7. no flaming of the west becuase they have done a little thing against allah, they can talk about it but no flaming by the priest.
wtf. just wtf. maybe ze government can supply ze stormtrooper to check ze papers at ze entrance, ja?motherdear wrote:
8. if they want it huge make it a center for all religions instead and make a design contest to get the most modern and british style they can get. only british and immigrants with british nationality must attend the muslims that attend must at least be second link in a integrated family. the council that decide the building must be british 3 generations back and represent all of the british community (except goths and punks)(homos are allowed) the must be under 50 years old and over 16 years.
Seriously, I'm not against Muslims, you can read a lot of posts where I'm open minded about that. But what the hell has to do a 4 blocks Mosque in the heart of Buenos Aires, Argentina a catholic nation, and the third Jewish community in the world? There are a few Muslims here. And to be honest I've never seen one person entering that building. You only see a policeman in every corner.arson wrote:
You should go up there check it out, take some pics ( in a non offensive way) and tell us about it. See what really goes on...sergeriver wrote:
Argentina is the third country in the world with more Jews. In the middle 90's Saudi Arabia bought a four squares terrain (I think there was a park there) and built a massive Mosque in the more expensive zone of Buenos Aires. I live 10 blocks from there and I must admit every time I drive my car by there I have this strange feeling about it. You never see a soul in the surroundings, people don't go there for any religious purpose, what the hell is this Mosque there for?
no way
Were fucked...Muslims will eventualy take/kill us all then they kill each other....shame they can't do that first...
You do know that if it's allowed to go ahead, Muslims will kill us and rape us in our beds don't you?! OMFGROFFLEWTFBBQ!!!111eleven.
Personally, I don't care, just as long as it is this big because there is the demand for it, and not because it makes some kind of political statement. Plus, if they actually have 40k people in there, it becomes far easier to check up on extremism.
However, being in the UK, it'd be good if they made it with bullet proof windows, as well as fire proof, as I can pretty much guarantee it'll get fire bombed within a week of it being opened...
Personally, I don't care, just as long as it is this big because there is the demand for it, and not because it makes some kind of political statement. Plus, if they actually have 40k people in there, it becomes far easier to check up on extremism.
However, being in the UK, it'd be good if they made it with bullet proof windows, as well as fire proof, as I can pretty much guarantee it'll get fire bombed within a week of it being opened...
They should be able to build a mosque as much as Christians should be able to build a church, but they need to put their fanaticism behind, and just use it to pray, etc.
But they have to remember what their fellow Muslims from the Middle East have done to the Western World such as 9/11, and not go ape-shit as soon as someone makes fun of Allah or Mohamed, and start causing mass riots around London or other parts of England.
But they have to remember what their fellow Muslims from the Middle East have done to the Western World such as 9/11, and not go ape-shit as soon as someone makes fun of Allah or Mohamed, and start causing mass riots around London or other parts of England.
Last edited by Macca (2006-09-27 01:19:49)
guys i only read half of the first page but i couldn't go on...........some of you make me sick
you need to remember that just because most terrorists are muslems it does not mean most muslems are terrorists! i am in no way a liberal left winger commy pinko or anything but i believe that as long as a person/group is following and abiding by the law of thier chosen nation/host that you should give them every courtesy you would anyone else regardless of religion or race.
what ever happened to the basic freedoms/rights of man that most of our constitutions give us all: freedom of speech, political affiliation, democracy, to association, of religion, should i continue? most of the posts here sound like something from the early years in the U.S...."all men are created equal........well the WHITES with money are but F__K the rest" and isn't that a direct quote from one of the "founding fathers" ie immigrant political terrorists/freedom fighters/"patriots"?
we as a species need to look past our predjudices and be a bit more sensible, many of these fanatical groups are using OUR hate of them to indoctrinate more members and increase thier following.
i tell you now if i was one of them (any moslem) experiencing these kind of attitudes in life, i would not lose any sleep over some of the things that have been done in my (read: muslem - im catholic) religions name.
just stop and think about things from thier shoes/p.o.v for a minute
you need to remember that just because most terrorists are muslems it does not mean most muslems are terrorists! i am in no way a liberal left winger commy pinko or anything but i believe that as long as a person/group is following and abiding by the law of thier chosen nation/host that you should give them every courtesy you would anyone else regardless of religion or race.
what ever happened to the basic freedoms/rights of man that most of our constitutions give us all: freedom of speech, political affiliation, democracy, to association, of religion, should i continue? most of the posts here sound like something from the early years in the U.S...."all men are created equal........well the WHITES with money are but F__K the rest" and isn't that a direct quote from one of the "founding fathers" ie immigrant political terrorists/freedom fighters/"patriots"?
we as a species need to look past our predjudices and be a bit more sensible, many of these fanatical groups are using OUR hate of them to indoctrinate more members and increase thier following.
i tell you now if i was one of them (any moslem) experiencing these kind of attitudes in life, i would not lose any sleep over some of the things that have been done in my (read: muslem - im catholic) religions name.
just stop and think about things from thier shoes/p.o.v for a minute
Honestly, don't care. They can do it if they want.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I have nothing against islam (well, I do avoid all religions in the same way), but I do have a personal bad feeling about arabs (or whatever you want to call all of north-african muslim countries and the whole of arab middle-east). they are a-social, they dont seem to be good at making friends with any other culture/nation (actually, they piss people off big time) and yet they want to live next door to me? no way, Josè, stay where you are. each is different so each one of us has a place to call home.Pte.OMARK wrote:
guys i only read half of the first page but i couldn't go on...........some of you make me sick
you need to remember that just because most terrorists are muslems it does not mean most muslems are terrorists! i am in no way a liberal left winger commy pinko or anything but i believe that as long as a person/group is following and abiding by the law of thier chosen nation/host that you should give them every courtesy you would anyone else regardless of religion or race.
what ever happened to the basic freedoms/rights of man that most of our constitutions give us all: freedom of speech, political affiliation, democracy, to association, of religion, should i continue? most of the posts here sound like something from the early years in the U.S...."all men are created equal........well the WHITES with money are but F__K the rest" and isn't that a direct quote from one of the "founding fathers" ie immigrant political terrorists/freedom fighters/"patriots"?
we as a species need to look past our predjudices and be a bit more sensible, many of these fanatical groups are using OUR hate of them to indoctrinate more members and increase thier following.
i tell you now if i was one of them (any moslem) experiencing these kind of attitudes in life, i would not lose any sleep over some of the things that have been done in my (read: muslem - im catholic) religions name.
just stop and think about things from thier shoes/p.o.v for a minute
If you had said that the mosque was to be built for a community of people from e.g. senegal (muslims) I think I would have said yes; because people from Senegal are known for being hard workers and very respectful people. religion is totally no longer an issue.
always talking about the majority of people, of course. never intended to be offensive to each and every arab muslim, just because theyre arabs, or muslims. ;-)
QFE ( I didn't quote the rest cause it'd be too much, but I agree with all of Nuttah's statement ).UnOriginalNuttah wrote:
A group who strongly condemn terrorist activities want to build a Centre to cater for 40k in easy reach of well over 100k Muslims. They want to build it in an eco-friendly manner and welcome non-Muslims who wish to make use of the facilities (e.g. conference rooms, dining halls etc.). Where's the problem? It's irrelevant what conditions are like overseas, and oppressing Muslims in this country because Christians are oppressed overseas is just going to perpetuate things.
With regards to dresscode I'd like to see it so that it's either both sexes or neither which have to cover their hair while on the premises, but I can understand that people have different standards of decency on their property so it's fine and irrelevant whatever the rules are. There are often dresscodes in posh restaurants and bars which specify a minimum standard of dress and coverage (e.g. no shirt no service), so there isn't much argument against it on that basis.
Christians are bound to whine because they are jealous of the fact that they wouldn't have a chance in hell of needing that sort of capacity even if had the imagination to attempt something like this. And ignorant sheep are bound say it will encourage terrorism because it's trendy.
....
We are seeing this problem in germany too. Muslims are taking a stronger stance in the countries they are living in, building mosques and other community facilities that western religions can only dream of.
This raises the question how much room we as a society are willing to give them without sacrificing our own identity, i.e. how much we think we have integrated the muslims into our society.
Are EU countries generally christian countries, i.e. european societies christian societies ?
Or is this a distinction that is no longer valid ? Do we even have a distinct european identity ? If yes, what is it based on ? christian faith ? secularism ? the age of enlightenment / reason ?
I believe we are approaching a turning point in this debate
What makes you think the mosqe will be used by Islamic fundamentalism?buLLet_t00th wrote:
Well if the Uk government want to show any standing over Islamic fundamentalism....this is the time to do it!
Mosques are places of worship and thats it.
The UK is now multi-cultural we have so many different races/religions living in the UK, that are actually Britsh Citizens. So being the well rounded Multi-cultural nation that we are then why is there even a question as to whether a Mosque or any other Religious building should be built in this country. Would there be a debate if someone wanted to build anither St Pauls cathederal. This is the nation that we are, multicultural and i'm proud to be part of it. The government just needs to put tighter controlls on imigration + Assaylum seekers, We are a small nation and running out of space + our economy (Unemployment terms) can't support this constant flow of new settlers in our country.
Yes you may have to adhere to rules if you visit Saudi etc, but by being flexible towards other cultures here in the UK shows how diverse, understanding, for want of a better word "free" for all to follow their own beliefs and ideas.
Those of you talking about extremests etc.
The news doesn't always tell the exact truth, Scare-mongering is one way of making interesting news.
Because they are muslim must mean they are extremests ????? Does that mean all football fans are Hooligans, You are painting all with the same brush when as usual it is a small percentage that are the trouble makers.
Yes you may have to adhere to rules if you visit Saudi etc, but by being flexible towards other cultures here in the UK shows how diverse, understanding, for want of a better word "free" for all to follow their own beliefs and ideas.
Those of you talking about extremests etc.
The news doesn't always tell the exact truth, Scare-mongering is one way of making interesting news.
Because they are muslim must mean they are extremests ????? Does that mean all football fans are Hooligans, You are painting all with the same brush when as usual it is a small percentage that are the trouble makers.
Last edited by Jinto-sk (2006-09-29 06:57:26)
no there wouldn't be e debate if it were about a buddhist temple or a church or a religious site for little green men from Mars who came in peace... the reason to such a difference is exactly what is being discussed about here, I guess?Jinto-sk wrote:
.....why is there even a question as to whether a Mosque or any other Religious building should be built in this country.
my only problem is what B.Schuss (german) and others in englad have told me about their not being able to display national flags or colors because some immigrant groups get offended, for christ's sake, if a country is so offensive to you why the fuck did you move there? As for the mosque, don't see any problem with it, unless they use it as a masthead under which to start riots like in france and such, or to preach hate from, until then, take the money
I also can not see the point of building a 40000 person mosque in london, it will never be even a 1/4 full.
It seems to me that it would be more of a symbol/icon than anything with a real practical use. I personaly think it should be vetoed, and a more realistic approach adopted, like a much smaller version able to cater for the county its in.
just my views.
It seems to me that it would be more of a symbol/icon than anything with a real practical use. I personaly think it should be vetoed, and a more realistic approach adopted, like a much smaller version able to cater for the county its in.
just my views.
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