You have no idea how many screenshots he will now post.....Ben>You wrote:
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Teamwork, yeah, the medics almost always have the lock on that. On the right map with the right user support can get a lot of team points too. But as for flag points and kills snipers can do just as well as either of those two classes and better, and no question better than assault, spec ops, AT and engineer typically (on foot, obviously engies in AFVs can do really well).
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Are you joking? You need a much better computer and conection to be a good sniper then to just run at an enemy firing your automatic weapon. Why do you think my sniper rifle ratio sucks so much?? Its because I have a shit computer and have to get within 100-200 metres of an enemy to take a shot, and even then the body/head are blurred into 1 and there movement is lagged and jerky making the HS almost imposible to judge correctly.Todd_Angelo wrote:
The only thing I'm halfway decent at in BF2 is sniper so that's what I play. Even if I had the right kind of reflexes to play up close and personal with automatic weapons my connection and computer aren't really up to it.
Plus I find camping waiting for a good shot realllly reallllllllllllly Boring, so most times I play sniper its similar to nytes style, attacking flags, getting a couple of medium range kills in, but 95% of my kills are within assault rifle effective range which makes me a great target for anyone who can fire accuratly. 1 v 1 I should win, but when are you ever fightiing only one other person? not often in my experience.
A sniper for all its played, is not a great kit for the team. Saying that I agree with:
But (barring the ultimate specialist sniper) any good player will do just as well and most time better with any other kit. Yes a sniper can be useful to the team but every other kit is 'more' useful. A sniper can only kil infantry, while every other class can also kill infantry but can do somthing extra.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Poor players make poor snipers, but poor players can suck just as much playing any other class FFS! They're the same guys playing medic who don't revive you despite you being 2m behind them because they haven't taken the time to learn what "Medic!" sounds like in Arabic or Mandarin or they don't realise what shock paddles are for, the same guys playing support that won't give you ammo even when you jump up and down in front of them with an ammo symbol over your head, the same guys who play spec ops that don't realise the carbines are less powerful than the assault rifles and wonder why they get killed so much... You've seen these and many other types of poor/inexperienced players in all in your time on the battlefield, you probably don't notice them any more as they're the ones you kill easily and walk over their corpse on the way to capping a flag, the bottom 11 on the scoreboard of a full 64-player map with KDRs less than 0.5 that nobody half decent ever sees unless they actually scroll down to look, they're the cannon fodder that help give us the scores and ratios we all enjoy.
Medic : heal/revive.
Engineer: AT mines, repair.
Support: Ammo.
AT: AT rockets.
Spec Ops: C4 for traps, assets etc.
Assault: Even has a GL, which can take out light transports with 1 or heavy with 2 shots. (also does dmg to all vehicles but not really effectivly)
Last edited by DrunkFace (2006-09-15 19:33:18)
leetkyle wrote:
Jbrar wrote:
Being a successful and effecient sniper requires skill, something the whiners don't have.
He's not good enough for matches. Not being a dick, just saying.Towelly wrote:
You have no idea how many screenshots he will now post.....Ben>You wrote:
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Teamwork, yeah, the medics almost always have the lock on that. On the right map with the right user support can get a lot of team points too. But as for flag points and kills snipers can do just as well as either of those two classes and better, and no question better than assault, spec ops, AT and engineer typically (on foot, obviously engies in AFVs can do really well).
Play AT instead of sniper, the shotties are great for close in combat and for the medium range shots you have a one-hit guaranteed kill with the AT. You then replace claymores (occasionally useful), with anti-vehicle capacity, which is probably the best "teamwork" possible on most maps (even though taking down enemy vehicles gets you no team points!).BolvisOculus wrote:
There should absolutly never be a one shot kill weapon in BF2. It would be the worst thing implemented.
In other words, AT is a close-combat capable, anti-vehicle/chopper capable, sniper who has body armour.
I know what I think is more useful.
But yes, I also play a fair bit of sniper because sometimes it is fun too.
Last edited by Moggle (2006-09-15 20:04:48)
I know mate, I know. I was simply commenting on how everytime someone says something about snipers Todd seems to produce 30 odd over used and recycled screenshots of him doing ok.Ben>You wrote:
He's not good enough for matches. Not being a dick, just saying.Towelly wrote:
You have no idea how many screenshots he will now post.....Ben>You wrote:
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.
Sorry, we're talking at cross puposes again. I wasn't talking about match play, this was about the general context, as the post I quoted seemed to be about too.Ben>You wrote:
1. Teamwork points, or points in general in matches do not matter.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Teamwork, yeah, the medics almost always have the lock on that. On the right map with the right user support can get a lot of team points too. But as for flag points and kills snipers can do just as well as either of those two classes and better, and no question better than assault, spec ops, AT and engineer typically (on foot, obviously engies in AFVs can do really well).
2. Flag capture wise, Medic, Support, Spec Forces, Assault, Engineer (and AT depending on the map and control point being captured) are safer bets than a sniper. If you wish I shall go into detail.
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.
In match play I think I've said, maybe five medics and one support guy makes perfect sense to me; if it's an infantry battle I can't imagine anything else would kick as much ass, as a rule. I don't know what the KDRs might be in a scrimmage but I'm imagining that if you were MEC and you and your boys are totally wiping the floor with the opposition then you'd want to have ammo so you didn't have to pick up dropped kits from the opposition as you could easily run out of ammo long before an opportunity to respawn.
Eight? Twenty? LOL Do we want faster scoring rate or better KDR? Outkilling the enemy team or just the entire server?Towelly wrote:
You have no idea how many screenshots he will now post.....
No, I'm not joking, I'm talking from personal experience.DrunkFace wrote:
Are you joking? You need a much better computer and conection to be a good sniper then to just run at an enemy firing your automatic weapon. Why do you think my sniper rifle ratio sucks so much?? Its because I have a shit computer and have to get within 100-200 metres of an enemy to take a shot, and even then the body/head are blurred into 1 and there movement is lagged and jerky making the HS almost imposible to judge correctly.Todd_Angelo wrote:
The only thing I'm halfway decent at in BF2 is sniper so that's what I play. Even if I had the right kind of reflexes to play up close and personal with automatic weapons my connection and computer aren't really up to it.
The broadband service in Ireland is about the worst in western Europe, apparently there are countries in South America with better connection speeds and reliability than are typical here. You know what scope lag is? Well do you ever get it when you zoom a gun with iron sights? I do, practically guaranteed if I'm moving and the enemy is moving, even if he's the only moving object on screen. This is even at 800 x 600 with most settings on low and no antialiasing. Hell, in SF I get stutters running in hallways with nobody else present.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here but that's exactly how I play. Hence why I now have higher flag points than Nyte, after using my second account as a training-in period to get used to how to shoot, use the kit properly etc. where I tended to hang back to stay safe.DrunkFace wrote:
Plus I find camping waiting for a good shot realllly reallllllllllllly Boring, so most times I play sniper its similar to nytes style, attacking flags, getting a couple of medium range kills in, but 95% of my kills are within assault rifle effective range which makes me a great target for anyone who can fire accuratly. 1 v 1 I should win, but when are you ever fightiing only one other person? not often in my experience.
*sigh* If we're talking about public servers it depends on the player, not the kit.DrunkFace wrote:
A sniper for all its played, is not a great kit for the team.
Well that's open to question. Surely it's up to each guy's preferences and abilities? I play sniper because it's what I'm best at. Your mileage may vary.DrunkFace wrote:
But (barring the ultimate specialist sniper) any good player will do just as well and most time better with any other kit.
You raise some valid points except you're forgetting flags, which snipers can cap quite well and defend perhaps better than any other class (at least in the short term). With ticket bleed from flags being so significant in some maps and situations it makes the question of sniper effectiveness not quite to easy to dismiss.DrunkFace wrote:
Yes a sniper can be useful to the team but every other kit is 'more' useful. A sniper can only kil infantry, while every other class can also kill infantry but can do somthing extra....
If a supply crate is on the roof, or a friendly support player has dropped a bunch of ammo bags in the flag room or on the stairs, a sniper can hold the TV station single-handedly against waves of infantry, even if they attack in pairs or as small squads. A good squad would be hard to defeat but that would be true regardless of what was waiting for them inside.
Someone has to do it, lots of bias to combat here... and a picture's worth a thousand words and all thatTowelly wrote:
I know mate, I know. I was simply commenting on how everytime someone says something about snipers Todd seems to produce 30 odd over used and recycled screenshots of him doing ok.Ben>You wrote:
He's not good enough for matches. Not being a dick, just saying.
One, I try not to use screenies in more than one thread (but some are too good to miss up ), two, doing OK? Highest score/most kills/highest KDR in the entire server using a 'useless' kit, that's merely OK is it? Mmmkay.Towelly wrote:
...Todd seems to produce 30 odd over used and recycled screenshots of him doing ok.
you use screens in almost every thread about snipers.
And you are? I don't take any offence at this, it's a good point actually and it raises an interesting thing I wanted to ask about.Ben>You wrote:
He's not good enough for matches. Not being a dick, just saying.Towelly wrote:
You have no idea how many screenshots he will now post.....
Scrims take place on locked servers, right? So they have to be unranked and until recently that meant no unlocks, which is why we've heard it said many times that's why clan players prefer to use unlocks for normal play so they don't get used to something else. Correct? So that means that no matter how well or how badly you do in scrims it won't show on your stats.
Now, the standard of players in clans... the better ones obviously since some are going to be Mickey Mouse... is supposed to be WAY higher than on public servers, right?
See where I'm going with this? So good competitive players should have mega stats in terms of KDR, SPM and a few other areas... if only for recent play since you can improve a lot, and quickly, once you get competitive... since they're supposedly so much better than the general standard seen in the average public server. Shouldn't they?
And?stryyker wrote:
you use screens in almost every thread about snipers.
casual observationTodd_Angelo wrote:
And?stryyker wrote:
you use screens in almost every thread about snipers.
Casual observation: you post negatively (and incorrectly) about snipers practically every time the subject comes up.
proof.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Casual observation: you post negatively (and incorrectly) about snipers practically every time the subject comes up.
And you clog my bandwidth with repetitive screenshots of mediocrity, all2Todd_Angelo wrote:
Casual observation: you post negatively (and incorrectly) about snipers practically every time the subject comes up.
Your talking about with claymores right? because the rifle is next to useless in this situation?Todd_Angelo wrote:
If a supply crate is on the roof, or a friendly support player has dropped a bunch of ammo bags in the flag room or on the stairs, a sniper can hold the TV station single-handedly against waves of infantry, even if they attack in pairs or as small squads. A good squad would be hard to defeat but that would be true regardless of what was waiting for them inside.
All flags have more the 1 entry point, most more then 2. Also to mine off a flag restricts friendly movements too, not allowing them to leave the area. And can't C4 be used inthe same way, without TKs and with a automatic weapon?
So how does this make sniping easier? It requires you to place 1 exactly accurate shot in a very small area. Any lagg you will notice much more when your trying to snipe as your ONE shot will miss. with an automatic weapon half your bullets can miss but you can just 'spray' and will most likly hit your target enough to kill them.Todd_Angelo wrote:
The broadband service in Ireland is about the worst in western Europe, apparently there are countries in South America with better connection speeds and reliability than are typical here. You know what scope lag is? Well do you ever get it when you zoom a gun with iron sights? I do, practically guaranteed if I'm moving and the enemy is moving, even if he's the only moving object on screen. This is even at 800 x 600 with most settings on low and no antialiasing. Hell, in SF I get stutters running in hallways with nobody else present.
Same player, Most times the non sniper kit is better.Todd_Angelo wrote:
*sigh* If we're talking about public servers it depends on the player, not the kit.
Snipers don't win many CQC fights so how can you say they are better then other classes at capping flags which is all about CQC. claymores? you have 2, and they don't protect a whole area, plus as mentioned above they restrict friendly troop movments aswel. A gun and grenades are much more useful.Todd_Angelo wrote:
You raise some valid points except you're forgetting flags, which snipers can cap quite well and defend perhaps better than any other class
Now don't get me wrong, I dont dislike the sniper kit and don't want it removed, Its just I don't see how it is helpful to the team over other kits. Fun to play Yes, but really not that healpful (in comparison).
I think we can safely stop trying to score points off each other now. You play competitively don't you? Can you be of any help with the scrim questions?stryyker wrote:
proof.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Casual observation: you post negatively (and incorrectly) about snipers practically every time the subject comes up.
Simple solution: don't look.Towelly wrote:
And you clog my bandwidth...
And you can do better then?Towelly wrote:
...with repetitive screenshots of mediocrity, all2
That's a rhetorical question LOL
Clays, grenades; rifle and pistol if you can see them coming (like over the ridge to the south-east on Sharqi, as they cross the street on Warlord).DrunkFace wrote:
Your talking about with claymores right? because the rifle is next to useless in this situation?Todd_Angelo wrote:
If a supply crate is on the roof, or a friendly support player has dropped a bunch of ammo bags in the flag room or on the stairs, a sniper can hold the TV station single-handedly against waves of infantry, even if they attack in pairs or as small squads. A good squad would be hard to defeat but that would be true regardless of what was waiting for them inside.
Yes, I was talking about a particular flag.DrunkFace wrote:
All flags have more the 1 entry point, most more then 2.
Clays/mines recognise friendlies on most servers, obviously I was talking about when this is the case. I remember it's different in Oz.DrunkFace wrote:
Also to mine off a flag restricts friendly movements too, not allowing them to leave the area.
It doesn't, believe me! I regularly get two double-zooms in a row if the server is a bit laggy. I was simply illustrating that with these problems I'm still better off being sniper than another kit.DrunkFace wrote:
So how does this make sniping easier?Todd_Angelo wrote:
The broadband service in Ireland is about the worst in western Europe, apparently there are countries in South America with better connection speeds and reliability than are typical here. You know what scope lag is? Well do you ever get it when you zoom a gun with iron sights? I do, practically guaranteed if I'm moving and the enemy is moving, even if he's the only moving object on screen. This is even at 800 x 600 with most settings on low and no antialiasing. Hell, in SF I get stutters running in hallways with nobody else present.
And then on top of that we've got the puff-of-dust-no-hit problem!DrunkFace wrote:
It requires you to place 1 exactly accurate shot in a very small area. Any lagg you will notice much more when your trying to snipe as your ONE shot will miss.
Depends on the sniper. I'm not saying I can (although my infantry KDR is currently better than the average guy using automatic weapons, and, significantly, it and my kill rate are higher that the original poster's!) but some players sure as hell can, at least two or three have posted in this thread above me.DrunkFace wrote:
Snipers don't win many CQC fights...
I didn't "[snipers can cap] quite well and defend perhaps better than any other class (at least in the short term)."DrunkFace wrote:
...so how can you say they are better then other classes at capping flags...
Yeah, often that's true for the reasons you mentioned. But if you can kill more people than anyone on the other team, often with fewest deaths too, and protect a bunch of flags along the way then darn tootin' it helps. The point of the defences we snipers have to do here is that supposedly this is impossible, which is clearly not the case. It may be hard, and sure as hell not everyone can do it (including most people who knock snipers of course), but it's absolutely possible on certain maps, even routine, if you're decent.DrunkFace wrote:
Now don't get me wrong, I dont dislike the sniper kit and don't want it removed, Its just I don't see how it is helpful to the team over other kits. Fun to play Yes, but really not that healpful (in comparison).
Snipers are effective, but the overuse of them by one team will equal a loss.
Matches are all about tickets, true. I play Sniper 75% of the time in matches and scrims and my KDR is still around 10 : 1 at the end. When I am finished defending flags and chokepoints we usually win the match. I have an 80% win-succesrate whenever I play in a match.Ben>You wrote:
1. Teamwork points, or points in general in matches do not matter.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Teamwork, yeah, the medics almost always have the lock on that. On the right map with the right user support can get a lot of team points too. But as for flag points and kills snipers can do just as well as either of those two classes and better, and no question better than assault, spec ops, AT and engineer typically (on foot, obviously engies in AFVs can do really well).
2. Flag capture wise, Medic, Support, Spec Forces, Assault, Engineer (and AT depending on the map and control point being captured) are safer bets than a sniper. If you wish I shall go into detail.
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.
So this might not be what you see on average in clanplay, but it is what I do in matches.
So am i helping the team then?Ben>You wrote:
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.
These aren't one-off rounds either, rat>Ben.
JEEZUZZ!! I have NEVER experienced a sniper who actually works with me in public. Only time you see them is hiding in a freaking bush when you rush past them to cap a flag. maybe it's a fact that people don't know how to use the kit. But by now as Bf2 has been played for quite a few hours , there should be some people who knows what they're doing. But there aren't!!!!R3v4n wrote:
Did you know that shooting the Helo with the M95 will take off 1 bar of health, just last night my team downed a helo as a squad of snipers the helo was strafing the arty island and all six of us opened up on it, it was on fire in no time. can a squad of assault do that?, or medic?, or spec ops? i think not. Have you actually seen two snipers work together? as a TEAM? They communicate. They can pin the enemy, they can strike at moral, sure there are people that cant sniper but there are also people that cant fly, they learn. And you bearz have 134 hours as sniper, but 80% vehicle whorage? wtf?
Sniper's jobs are the same in bf2 as they are in RL, its the team work that every one needs, we need to learn to work with the sniper. as the snipers works with us.
In other words- Sniper is a shitkit for lazy inbreads who are afraid of real infantry battle!!
So what?ssonrats wrote:
So am i helping the team then?Ben>You wrote:
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/ … een034.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/ … een002.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/ … een001.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/ … een021.jpg
These aren't one-off rounds either, rat>Ben.
when I take a screenshot of my stats it's because it has been an awesome round. I assume it's the same for you? How about letting us see one of your usual average rounds instead of bragging with your best, eh?
yeah theres a lot of stuff to read, so i didnt...but i just played in a match last night Cal 8v8 on bf2 pro.... both teams had snipers and this was on mashtuur city....not exactly the most ideal map to snipe on...the enemy commander would be sniper (occassionally) and so did i ( also occassionally)....when we got all but one base and are just defending em cuz we decided just to bleed em out, hell y not be a sniper...you can droppem faster, they'll never have a chance at getting close to your base and if they do you got other infantry there in your squad to take them out...and if worst comes to worst you throw a clay on the flag, hide around the corner and boom 2 seconds later your in the clear again.
Go you. We should get more of us to post this kind of thingssonrats wrote:
So am i helping the team then?Ben>You wrote:
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/ … een034.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/ … een002.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/ … een001.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/ … een021.jpg
These aren't one-off rounds either, rat>Ben.
Of course there are. You're either unlucky enough not to have played with one or you simply didn't notice. If you hang out in either of the TV2 Sharqi servers though you should have played with Chillin&Killin, InvisiKiller, Clean.Sweap or one of his clanmates at least once though. I think Jemme101 plays on some TV2 servers too. And if you were really lucky you'd have been on the same teamklassekock wrote:
But by now as Bf2 has been played for quite a few hours , there should be some people who knows what they're doing. But there aren't!!!!
Well maybe not lazy but it is an easy pick for people who aren't great players.klassekock wrote:
In other words- Sniper is a shitkit for lazy inbreads who are afraid of real infantry battle!!
Hey, I'm definitely of the opinion that you don't have to be better to point out a weakness or something but he says in his post they aren't one-off rounds.klassekock wrote:
So what? when I take a screenshot of my stats it's because it has been an awesome round. I assume it's the same for you? How about letting us see one of your usual average rounds instead of bragging with your best, eh?
Anyone can attempt to knock a screenshot saying it's an exception (or the other tack, saying that good/better-than-average rounds are "mediocre") but I've played on the TOP server in the US a bunch of times and lemme tell you, even playing in squads with their mates, on home turf, some of them sometimes have rounds where they don't kick ass. And when you play solo on a public server it's a whole different ballgame, so come on people, be reasonable; nobody kicks ass every game and I bet even the greats have so-so rounds every now and then, no matter what class they play. Books_DCDF assured me that even he has them.
Jemme101 wrote:
Matches are all about tickets, true. I play Sniper 75% of the time in matches and scrims and my KDR is still around 10 : 1 at the end. When I am finished defending flags and chokepoints we usually win the match. I have an 80% win-succesrate whenever I play in a match.Ben>You wrote:
1. Teamwork points, or points in general in matches do not matter.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Teamwork, yeah, the medics almost always have the lock on that. On the right map with the right user support can get a lot of team points too. But as for flag points and kills snipers can do just as well as either of those two classes and better, and no question better than assault, spec ops, AT and engineer typically (on foot, obviously engies in AFVs can do really well).
2. Flag capture wise, Medic, Support, Spec Forces, Assault, Engineer (and AT depending on the map and control point being captured) are safer bets than a sniper. If you wish I shall go into detail.
3. In a match, infantry only or not, snipers won't get a good kdr, thus not helping the team the way they should.
So this might not be what you see on average in clanplay, but it is what I do in matches.
Interesting. Now this raises another question, how much weight should we give bearz's statements about clan play?sharpshot19 wrote:
yeah theres a lot of stuff to read, so i didnt...but i just played in a match last night Cal 8v8 on bf2 pro.... both teams had snipers and this was on mashtuur city....not exactly the most ideal map to snipe on...the enemy commander would be sniper (occassionally) and so did i ( also occassionally)....when we got all but one base and are just defending em cuz we decided just to bleed em out, hell y not be a sniper...you can droppem faster, they'll never have a chance at getting close to your base and if they do you got other infantry there in your squad to take them out...and if worst comes to worst you throw a clay on the flag, hide around the corner and boom 2 seconds later your in the clear again.
When it comes down to it,Sniper is probably the most played kit,maybe medic is very close.
Sniping is fun,and if i/they want to help the team i can cover a few flags.
But i reserve the right to not help my team and sit a mile away from the action shooting at people because it's what i enjoy.
The same Sniper argument is brought up here everyday,hows about we just leave it?
Oh no,half my team is snipers!!!Nobody cares,let them,or switch team.
Sniping is fun,and if i/they want to help the team i can cover a few flags.
But i reserve the right to not help my team and sit a mile away from the action shooting at people because it's what i enjoy.
The same Sniper argument is brought up here everyday,hows about we just leave it?
Oh no,half my team is snipers!!!Nobody cares,let them,or switch team.
Topic closed
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