BF2S Forums 9/11/2001

Whether you were 2 then


Or 7 now


Patricia was 2 years old when here mother, police officer Moria Smith was killed in the attacks at the WTC.


It is still an event the tears at America's Heart.

Islamic terrorists basically say "We want to see you die, and all that you stand for, too."
Does that make you want to forgive them?  If they apologized, or at least stated they were wrong to kill nearly 3,000 civilians, I would forgive them.  But my vengeful nature does not want to forgive someone who wants to kill me and my family.

Does this reflect poorly on me? somewhat

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2006-09-12 07:48:49)

IG-Calibre wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

It doesn't help that the US claims to want 'freedom' for Iraq and yet calmly overlooks the misery served upon the Palestinians day after day since 1948.

So have the British, the french, the Germans, etc.

However they do not  financially back Israel or arm it, ya dig?

Somebody has to.  Damn near every country in that region wants them wiped off the face of the planet.

IG-Calibre wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

Also worth noting, the core tenant & teaching that underpinned Christs message to humanity was "forgiveness" yet not one "Christian" american has responded to my question several pages back, as, to whether they had forgiven the actions of the people in the various 9/11 tragedy's.

Would you?

Yes I have had people close to me die from terrorist bombs and I have buired them.  I have forgiven the perpetrators and asked for forgiveness for them. Why do you think forgiving is a sign of weakness or something? do you not realise how much strength it takes?

No I do not think it is a sign of weakness. I also think that it is understandable for a person who has lost someone close to them to remain angry. I think it takes a big person to forgive, I don't look down on people who have a hard time doing so also.

Last edited by Kmarion (2006-09-12 08:19:42)

AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:

This can only benefit you, but I cannot tell you what to do. If you would, go find and download the song Believe, by the band Yellowcard. It is a song written in memory of, and for the brave men and women of the New York Fire Department.

“ Think about the love inside the strength of heart
Think about the heroes saving life in the dark
Climbing higher through the fire, time was running out
Never knowing you weren’t going to be coming down alive
But you still came back for me
You were strong and you believed

Everything is gonna be alright
Everything is gonna be alright
Everything is gonna be alright
Be strong. Believe.
Be strong. Believe.

Think about the chance I never had to say
Thank you for giving up your life that day
Never fearing, only hearing voices calling out
Let it all go, the life that you know, just to bring it down alive
And you still came back for me
You were strong and you believed

Everything is gonna be alright
Everything is gonna be alright
Everything is gonna be alright
Be strong. Believe.

(Again today, we take into our hearts and minds those who perished on this site one year ago, and also those who came to toil in the rubble to bring order out of chaos, to help us make sense of our despair)

Wanna hold my wife when I get home
Wanna tell the kids they’ll never know how much I love to see them smile
Wanna make a change or two right now
Wanna live a life like you somehow
Wanna make your sacrifice worthwhile

Everything is gonna be alright
Everything is gonna be alright
Everything is gonna be alright
Be strong. Believe.

Everything is gonna be alright
Everything is gonna be alright
Everything is gonna be alright
Be strong. Believe.

Think about the love inside the strength of heart
Think about the heroes saving life in the dark
Think about the chance I never had to say
Thank you for giving up your life that day

(The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here)”

http://www.eprimedesigns.com/ks/press/?p=20

That post is ruined by the Yellowcard lyrics...

usmarine2005 wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

So have the British, the french, the Germans, etc.

However they do not  financially back Israel or arm it, ya dig?

Somebody has to.  Damn near every country in that region wants them wiped off the face of the planet.

That kind of contradicts the laws of nature - the principle of 'survival of the fittest' that most neo-cons would prescribe to. If it can't exist on its own, should it?

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

However they do not  financially back Israel or arm it, ya dig?

Somebody has to.  Damn near every country in that region wants them wiped off the face of the planet.

That kind of contradicts the laws of nature - the principle of 'survival of the fittest' that most neo-cons would prescribe to. If it can't exist on its own, should it?

So it was ok to toss women and children in ovens just because they are Jews because the were not the fittest?  Survival of the fittest eh?  So why are people bitching about the US invading countries if the world is survival of the fittest?

FourthHorseman wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

Also worth noting, the core tenant & teaching that underpinned Christs message to humanity was "forgiveness" yet not one "Christian" American has responded to my question several pages back, as, to whether they had forgiven the actions of the people in the various 9/11 tragedy's.

I'm pretty sure you're just baiting people for a response here. However, since I easily fall into these kinda traps...

Yes, I forgive them. It still hurts, but I forgive them. I lost my sister in Tower 2, but I forgive them. This is why:

These men did terrible, evil things, but they were only men, as flawed as the next. What they did amounts to premeditated murder, thousands of times over, but they truly believed that their actions would accomplish something, and so they were willing to die for that. It is a fallacy, and a twisted malicious belief that murder of civilians is the path to victory, but it is what they believed, and they died for it. 

Whether or not you agree with what they did, they were following their beliefs, their jihad code. This type of action is the greatest thing these radical extremists can do for their religion, martyrdom for their faith. So, as they destroyed so many lives here, they fulfilled their goal, simply by carrying our their beliefs.

My beliefs are different. I am a Christian, and I respect their right to not be Christian. While this is not a courtesy these people offer to us, I offer it to them willingly.  That is how I can forgive them; MY belief system allows me to feel loss, and grief and pain, but to take comfort that maybe all those souls were taken care of in another realm. I may be right or wrong in my faith, they may be right or wrong in theirs. But it doesn't matter, really. All that matters is what you believe. 

Forgiveness does not come cheap, mind you. But I know that not all Muslims want the jihad to continue, any more than we Christians want to see any innocent Muslims hurt or dead. It is, basically, the same religion, told in two different ways. And, while neither Christianity or Islam has always followed the basic tenets of peace, there is always hope for the future. And that, ultimately, is how I can forgive these men. Today's struggles may destroy us all, but there is always the hope that time will see the end of wars like this.

I assure you no baiting intended, and god bless you and give you strength.  It is no easy thing to do - even on a faceless internet message board, & a daily struggle to endure every day, but we cannot have any reconciliation & peace in this world; or our lives, without forgiveness first.

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2006-09-12 09:36:40)

Only Americans...

Not to many people care about the Thousands of lives taken from other Countrys every week.

I have no faith in religion, I have no belief in religion. But that does not mean that I have no beliefs. I believe in people. I believe in my friends. I believe in my family. I believe in my Country. I believe in the Army that exists to protect our country. I will forgive those who have done wrong, if seek forgiveness for what they have done.

I will not, however, forgive those who perform an act of hatred and anger so openly, and do not seek our forgiveness, but seek our death. You can show them all the mercy you wish, and as you rise to announce that they have been forgiven, only you will feel the pain of their blade as they use your mercy and penchant to forgive them, and use it to stab you in the back.

Just because you forgive them, it is not enough. Who is to say they will not use that forgiveness to gain themselves a foothold which to use against you? Whether you trust them or not, that window of forgiveness can be used for their own advantage, to further their goal of destroying us.

I am lucky to not have lost anyone the the 9/11 attack, especially with a majority of my extended family who live in New York City, but I cannot ignore, nor can I forgive those who so openly took so many lives of such innocent people, just for their belief. Even though they did what they did for their belief, I cannot condone it, nor could I ever allow myself to forgive such a heinous act.

And before you think I and singleing out the Muslims for their religion, remember I stated I have NO religion I believe in. As I do not condone what the Muslims have done in the name of their Jihads against us, nor would I ever condone what the Christians did during their Crusades in Europe hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

Fighting for your beliefs is one thing...but killing and destroying those who do not similarly share your beliefs, in the name of your beliefs, is not a thing I can condone. Nor am I saying that fighting and killing for your beliefs is right either, I do not think that killing in the name of your beliefs should EVER be forgiven. I think of it as merely hiding behind your beliefs and using them as a reason to justify your taking of life.

I know this is vastly off the posted topic, but I cannot continue to watch the people who are already off-topic (no matter how slightly) to merely say that "These are our beliefs, if we have them, as do they, we must forgive them."

That is your belief, and I will not take that from you. But I will NOT for one second allow it to be even implied that taking so many innocent lives can EVER be justified, even if it is in the name of your beliefs, no matter what they may be.

Your belief's are one thing, but do NOT use them as an excuse to justify the loss of so many lives. It is disrespectful to those whose lives vanished in that attack, as it is similarly disrespectful to those who have lost in that attack, as well as to the men and women who gave their all, sometimes including their body and life, to preserve and save the lives that were in danger before, and after the towers' collapse.

Last edited by ChrisRedfield[RE] (2006-09-13 00:00:08)

Off topic a little here but does anyone feel Israel gets more preferential treatment than anyone else on this planet? In my opinion they are the perpetrators of State terrorism on a continuous basis, have built up nuclear arms in a manner that has seen other nations invaded for similar practices and they subject the Palestinians to treatment reminiscent of Northern Ireland at the height of the troubles or apartheid era South Africa. A perfect example of this is their soccer team, they are hated so much by their neighbours that they can't even compete in the Middle Eastern qualification zone and what do FIFA and UEFA do? ...give them special allowance to compete in the European qualification zone! Could you imagine FIFA allowing apartheid era South Africa to qualify in the Asian qualification zone? FIFA banned South Africa during the apartheid regime but Israel get rewarded.