CameronPoe, how do you dare to talk about America and Bush, if you ain't even american. Sir you are offending our great world leader citizens so I beg you to apologize in order to please them.CameronPoe wrote:
The fact that they were based in several of our countries you unbelievable moron!!!!! Sheesh. Some people. Do you read ever or do you generally just waltz into debates with vague and incorrect impressions of what is going on in the outside world?CreepingCharlie wrote:
I'm sorry go back to your fucking country and worry about it rather than pick apart ours. What does having secret prisons (well not anymore) have to do about your country???? NOTHING!!
Us doesn't want their help as Iraq did not want US help?DBBrinson1 wrote:
How is locking up enemies of the US and our Allies is a betrayal? Gitmo ain't torture. However being a prison guard there is. Look at any Arab state prison. Those guys in Gitmo are getting far better treatment compared to any prison in their own country. Punished by the European Union? How has the European Union really helped us in the first place? England has, but France & Germany have been against the US all along. You are fooling yourself if you think that any country granting the CIA/NSA access to airspace or airports is getting nothing in return. I've got more news for you. The Muslim community probably never respected you guys anyways. I don't find these "secret prisons" sickening. Do you know what I find sickening? People who fly planes into buildings, People who strap bombs to their sons and daughters, People who videotape beheadings and then broadcast them on the Internet..... If the majority of your country thinks the way you do, then the US doesn't want your help.CameronPoe wrote:
This US administration has betrayed the trust of several of its allies and must pay the price. Deplorable behaviour like this disgusts me - operating under the noses of friendly governments to carry out interrogation and, if Gitmo is anything to go by, torture. This betrayal of trust must be punished by the European Union - no longer should we turn a blind eye to CIA & military flights passing through our airports. The EU should publicly decry the behaviour of the United States to restore some respect we may have lost among the muslim community and the middle east and to restore respect in and value to OUR independent sovereignty. What a kick in the teeth. Not surprising at all but sickening all the same. The EU should be far more reluctant and less forthcoming in helping the USA in future, at least while this administration runs the show.
A lot of these arguments flying back and forth are irrelevant. The fact of the matter is my level of respect for the current United States government was low to begin with. It has been steadily dropping further and further as their acts plunge them closer to being the moral equivalents of the terrorists. My primary gripe is not about the probable/possible torture, etc. it's about the fact they were carrying out US government business under the noses of allied western nations without them knowing about it - pissing all over their sovereignty so to speak. Countries like Poland and Romania. The US even conceded, after all of the recent intense pressure over their actions, that they flew prisoners through Shannon airport in the Republic here. In the spirit of trust and good faith the government of the Republic chose not to exercise their right to search US military planes as they made onward journeys back and forth to the middle east. That trust was broken. Not only did they break our trust but they damaged the incumbent government here as the Irish public are extremely anti-war as it is. Torture all you want, it doesn't surprise me and I know that my complaining doesn't affect this one bit, but don't fucking torture people in my backyard or move them about through my backyard. /rant over/
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-09-07 16:04:24)
But you can't just go around legally doing illegal things POE, it just aint right.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
+1 for you not for your opinion, which I don't share, but for the respect showed for all non american people in the topic. You don't bring shame to your own country like many others do in this forum.AAFCptKabbom wrote:
Back on topic:
Of course they are secret prisons! Imagine if they weren't - terrorist would be trying to free them or terrorizing innocent people near where they are being held to get them free!
Bush admitting they were being held in secret prisons is news! They were being held somewhere - If you watched the news you knew these terrorist leaders were caught - where did you think they were being held the Paris Hilton!!! Old news and certainly not an issue. BTW - is the U.S. the only country that does this???
Terrorist being interrogated for information that would help find other terrorist and possibly prevent terrorist acts that could result in the deaths of innocent people! What!, are you surprised, offended, concerned, etc.!!
Are countries that capture terrorist just supposed to arrest them and be considerate of their feelings, treat them nice, and just put them in a prison, and not ask them questions that might offend them!!!
Were they possibly tortured into giving secrets related to their terrorist organization? Maybe, possibly, etc.
Being sent to GITMO acknowledges that we got the info we needed and that they are still alive - more than what we can say for the people they are responsible for ordering terrorist attacks against!!! Can anyone name a noted captured terrorist that is not accounted for? I looked and I can't find one.
I pose this thought and opinion: Captured terrorist are being shipped to GITMO, they will at one point be seen in GITMO by doctors and humanitarian rights representatives - that speaks volumes. They are not being shipped back to where they were captured because the risk is too high they would either be "really" tortured or possibly released or broken out of prison. IMHO - I don't see an issue with what is being done at all! I do not advocate brutal torture or killings to get information or to make a point like that done to those who were kidnapped tortured and murdered in Iraq and other places by terrorist. Nor do I agree that terrorist who are captured should be treated as if they beat someone up and taken to jail in our respective countries - this is some serious shit - enjoy the relative safety of where you are and the freedom of speech you take for granted.
Kaboom.
You were defining torture as just brutality like some half wit, and the relevance to the op is I lived through internment where people were snatched by the British and taken to prison camps for little more that being a Catholic where they were tortured until they confessed they were terrorists and committed acts of terrorism which in later years all turned out to be complete bullshit - they would of been sentenced to death only it had been abolished. Further more I'm not defending "terrorists" I'm defending the innocent or are you too thick to understand that? has the penny dropped yet for you? can you grasp that simple "ideology" - I'm standing up against tyranny maybe you will grow some balls and do the same some time. thats what set's us apart from the terrorists..DBBrinson1 wrote:
I wasn't defining torture. I was merely pointing out yet another flaw in your ideology. Where do you get off about being the moral authority on torture? Look at what Saddam and his children did to their own citizens. That was torture. I'd be willing to bet that the apprehender's government knew about his "snatching" and even authorized the US to do it. Where is your "rule of international law" when 9/11 happened? How about before that during the first attack on the WTC? Or the the attack on the USS Cole? Or the bombing of the Marine Barracks in Tripoli?IG-Calibre wrote:
Wow what a naive definition of torture most of the civilized world shares a wider definition of it than your narrow view (thank god). You say these people are held for a reason, why because some faceless CIA agent says their a terrorist? i've said it before and i'll say it again GTFO.
You say these people are there for a reason, well most people are in jail for a reason moron because they have committed a crime, which they have been convicted of through the criminal system. What fucking right does America have to be snatching people off streets and out of their houses in European citys at their whim to hold for years without charge? the rule of international law doesn't break down because 9/11 happened - much as Bush likes to think it gives him carte blanche for his administration to do as they like. I'm Born and raised in Northern Ireland mate and lived through internment so don't try and teach your granny to suck eggs, civilised society conducts its self with laws and regulations, checks and balances, I don't give a fuck about Israel or any other bullshit that can be discussed to death in their own threads. this thread is about US admitting that they are holding prisoners in secret prisons and breaking the Law's which up hold civilised society. stick with it or post your BS else where
As to your last rantings -I do not understand what relevance to the original topic that you live in Ireland (northern apparently) and use the Internet to teach you grandma how to suck eggs, so I won't address it. My replies did /do address the topic on secret prisons, and its related to the security of MY country. I'm sorry you don't enjoy the same opinion as I do and it makes me sad there are people like you out there defending terrorists and them being detained in "secret" prisons.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2006-09-07 16:08:26)
ive been saying that for the last 6 yearssergeriver wrote:
An impeachment over here please.
EDIT: i would give u +1 but not enough post=/
Last edited by dpglotus (2006-09-07 16:15:24)
For all those people bitching to all the foreigners here, keep your government, we don't want it. USA is a great country with a terrible government, headed by Bush, who is fascist and he takes a dump over Geneva Conventions and over the whole world. We can give our viewpoints coz everything has to do with mankind, so stop bitching at us.
Btw, here you have a nice story about your admirable human rights lover Bush and how he did lie.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/14/opini … mp;emc=rss
Btw, here you have a nice story about your admirable human rights lover Bush and how he did lie.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/14/opini … mp;emc=rss
No you can't, I'm argentine not american.dpglotus wrote:
ive been saying that for the last 6 yearssergeriver wrote:
An impeachment over here please.
EDIT: i would give u +1 but not enough post=/
For most of my response see post #129.DBBrinson1 wrote:
How is locking up enemies of the US and our Allies is a betrayal? Gitmo ain't torture. However being a prison guard there is. Look at any Arab state prison. Those guys in Gitmo are getting far better treatment compared to any prison in their own country. Punished by the European Union? How has the European Union really helped us in the first place? England has, but France & Germany have been against the US all along. You are fooling yourself if you think that any country granting the CIA/NSA access to airspace or airports is getting nothing in return. I've got more news for you. The Muslim community probably never respected you guys anyways. I don't find these "secret prisons" sickening. Do you know what I find sickening? People who fly planes into buildings, People who strap bombs to their sons and daughters, People who videotape beheadings and then broadcast them on the Internet..... If the majority of your country thinks the way you do, then the US doesn't want your help.
On specifics:
France & Germany have been against the US all along? Maybe that's why the US military ferry soldiers towards the middle east through the two countries with the consent of said countries. Are you saying that JUST BECAUSE France and Germany decided not to support the war on Iraq for retrospectively completely legitimate reasons (although at the time France did have ulterior motives) that they are now no longer US allies? Gimme a break. The US violated the sovereignty of Poland for fuck sake: they SENT troops to Iraq.
PS Muslims have infinitely more respect for Europe than they do for USA, that's for sure.
PPS To legitimise inhumane behaviour you constantly call upon horrific graphic images of the debauchery of the terrorists: that doesn't make your behaviour any more respectable.
Let's forget about the obvious here for a sec, and pretend to go along with the preposterous suggestion put forth by our friend Jenkinsbball that if a man is indeed a terrorist he loses his rights. Yes, I know this is stupid, but lets play the game in retarded rules.Jenkinsbball wrote:
Terrorists don't deserve rights. They deserve to be beheaded and have it broadcasted all over the internet and cable news networks. When someone kills an american while trying to ransom him/her for one of their memeber(s), we should take the people they want into an open field and kill them the same way they kill our captured civilians/GIs... and televise it for everyone to see we're sick of their uncivilized bullshit.
GWB said: "This program has helped us to take potential mass murderers off the streets, before they were able to kill."
http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoChanne … 2d19a48d8e
O M F G ? ? ? Since that is the case, I am a terrorist who hasn't yet committed a crime. Gitmo for me plz, I've never been to Cuba and I hear its nice.
Jenkinsbball, hope Abu Graib sounds good because you are a terrorist who hasn't yet committed a crime. Fuck, we all are!!!
ƒ³
"we have taken potential mass murderers off the streets" OMG LOCK EVERYONE UP!! unbelievable how does that man get away with a statement like that.. ""All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
I have the right to want and not want to know things. That is my right that I fought for in the US Marines (hhhmmmmm I wonder if you ever did?) and I will exercise it freely. What I did do is openly applaud those who keep us safe every day and approve of their methods no matter the cost. Terrorists being secretly tortured will never hinder our liberties, just theirs, and I am ok with that. And seing how these acts are not being committed on U.S. soil, and are being performed by men who are not members of our armed forces then it is not illegal. People ( like you) forget that CIA, NSA, and FBI are not uniformed members of the armed forces, therefore any act they commit cannot and will not be considered an act of war. Watch Munich....they are paid by the box. So to conclude, fuck terrorists and fuck you for sympathizing for them. You may not have said it but this is war, your with us or them.JimmyBotswana wrote:
You are a faggy little baby because you don't want to know what is going on and would rather be kept ignorant. Secret prisons are the hallmark of every dictatorship. Move to North Korea if you don't want to know who your government is jailing and what is does to its prisoners.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Listen, things happen every day that we never know about. We don't want to know them. I like it that way. If they are keeping us safe by torturing disgusting, civilian killing terrorists then I am ok with that. I am pretty sure that if the terrorists were not being terrorists then they would not be in their current torture prediciment. The CIA are the guys out there doing things in the shadows that allow us to sleep safe EVERY night and I wont be a faggy little baby and complain about them......I applaud them.
Last edited by deeznutz1245 (2006-09-07 16:43:08)
Malloy must go
FUCK YOU BUSH HATERS, I hope the mujahadeen beheads you fagots
Another great example of Bush followers intelectual aptitude.ssj3barua wrote:
FUCK YOU BUSH HATERS, I hope the mujahadeen beheads you fagots
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=21799
While I hope the CIA mistakes you for a terrorist, kidnaps you, holds you incommunicado for over four years while transferring you from prison to prison in a dozen different countries where the local experts practice their own special brand of torture. And then your fellow countrymen decide you must be guilty because you were arrested and volunteer for the firing squad.ssj3barua wrote:
FUCK YOU BUSH HATERS, I hope the mujahadeen beheads you fagots
that just quonfused me so ill say itsergeriver wrote:
No you can't, I'm argentine not american.dpglotus wrote:
ive been saying that for the last 6 yearssergeriver wrote:
An impeachment over here please.
EDIT: i would give u +1 but not enough post=/
WTF
Ill tell you what before spouting off at the mouth why dont you try loading body bags into the back of a plane first. And carrying letters of the dead to their intended recipients. Before saying your entire it doesn't affect me crap.Takedazor wrote:
Good post Jimmy i think the same way.JimmyBotswana wrote:
Ya. Sure. That's what the "terrorists" need to worry about. US citizens storming the prisons and killing them. What are you high? This isn't 14th century Europe and Americans aren't armed with torches and pitchforks.phnxfrhwk wrote:
Oddly enough would you really want the world knowing where we keep them? If we did that then hell half of the US population would be down there trying to kill them (if it wasn't in Cuba anyways). The terrorists are probably a heck of a lot safer there with the CIA and the CIA's interrogation (which is probably just sodium penthanol anyways).
First of all, we don't even know who is in there. Sure, they could be terrorists, or they could be political prisoners. These are secret prisons. The government doesn't tell us who is in there. Stalin said his prison camps were full of terrorists and counter-revolutionaries. In reality they were full of people he deemed to be enemies, people opposed to him, political prisoners. When the government incarcerates people it deems to be enemies of the state and doesn't tell the people who they are or what they have done, that is the definition of tyranny.
I find it funny when ppl just say, "hey this doesn't affect my life who cares if there are secret prisions or not", i wonder what the german people think about the nazi camps at that time, i bet +/- the same. So as long as your life goes the way you want they can bend the constitution, torture ppl, target civilians in wars, attack sovereign country's and so on.
Thats the way things go and they only change when ppl realise their lifes are affected and that is went shit hit the fence, for the germans that time was when they realised they were loosing the war and bombs where falling from the skies like rain then they started thinking is it really good for me to continue with the nazi goverment? Well you know they did this and that.
In only one of this ways are americans going to get some sense into their heads.
That is if they get one too many soldiers killed at wars, when you know that one of your buddies, son, father is killed in the war you can change your opinion on war very fast like appened in vietnam.
The economy crashes because of war wage so people are getting fired and start thinking well this isn't working.
Other way is for someone to stop them.
After lots of posts i've seen i realised only 1thing, most of the american people just don't care about if other people get killed, put to prison tortured etc, they just wanna get on with their life living the old fashion american way.
As long as it doesn't affect me i don't care that is the american slogan. In europe ppl think a little bit diferently and i'm glad of it because this way of life just makes me sick.
Your president is caugh lying and lying and lying and you say "who cares" and even worst you believe somethings he says, how can you believe the word of a man that lied so many times? Would you believe your neighbour if he lied as often as Bush?
A lot of stuff from the 9/11 didn't came out too but who cares right? Why bother get into details? It's only some thousand people and most of it you didn't even knew.
Question "what did iraq had to do with 9/11 mister bush?"
Response "Nothing"
After he said it otherwise before...
So question yourselfs american and think for a while, did this this man that lied 100times told you the truth about 9/11? was it really the talibans? Does iran got or will get nuclear weapons? Is there a 2nd 9/11 plan so that america can attack iran?
That last one i can aswer and the response is yes but gess what i'm not the one who's going to die on it so if i were american i would say "who cares if the CIA sponsoring taliban carries out attacks on it's how ppl" that is americans problem.
But i'm not like that, people should care and question things but they don't and it's just sad because that's the way some people really are.
Sorry about going off topic a lot just couldn't help it.
first of all the president doesn't make decisions by himself thats why we have a system of checks and balances in effect with the senate and congress.
I don't hold bush in the highest regards either but that doesn't mean I look for every possible excuse to degrade the American government. I question, I research and I form my own opinion.
And for the CIA to have secret prisons. OMFG who would have freaking guessed!!! The CIA doing something clandestine.....come on people thats what they are there for.
And no we don't have pitchforks and torches. We have guns...lots of them.
yeah Im glad Americans think differently than europeans do otherwise we might still be paying taxes to the Queen of England right now.
And oug I think its more along the lines of "Known Terrorists" as far as potential mass murderers.
You're ok dude, it's a little sarcasm regarding some american dudes in this topic bitching at the foreigners talking about Bush.dpglotus wrote:
that just quonfused me so ill say itsergeriver wrote:
No you can't, I'm argentine not american.dpglotus wrote:
ive been saying that for the last 6 years
EDIT: i would give u +1 but not enough post=/
WTF
So you're happy shipping your fellow soldiers home in boxes because your Commander-in-Chief lied to your government and people about the need to go to war in Iraq? Your brothers and sisters in the military are dying because you went in to fight a war under false pretences and you're applauding the President for it?deeznutz1245 wrote:
I fought for in the US Marines (hhhmmmmm I wonder if you ever did?) and I will exercise it freely. What I did do is openly applaud those who keep us safe every day and approve of their methods no matter the cost. Terrorists being secretly tortured will never hinder our liberties, just theirs, and I am ok with that. And seing how these acts are not being committed on U.S. soil, and are being performed by men who are not members of our armed forces then it is not illegal. People ( like you) forget that CIA, NSA, and FBI are not uniformed members of the armed forces, therefore any act they commit cannot and will not be considered an act of war. Watch Munich....they are paid by the box. So to conclude, fuck terrorists and fuck you for sympathizing for them. You may not have said it but this is war, your with us or them.
Give me strength.
No. You missed it, *sigh* again. I was illustrating how you implied that torture was detaining someone with out reason. I didn't and still don't agree.IG-Calibre wrote:
You were defining torture as just brutality like some half wit, and the relevance to the op is I lived through internment where people were snatched by the British and taken to prison camps for little more that being a Catholic where they were tortured until they confessed they were terrorists and committed acts of terrorism which in later years all turned out to be complete bullshit - they would of been sentenced to death only it had been abolished. Further more I'm not defending "terrorists" I'm defending the innocent or are you too thick to understand that? has the penny dropped yet for you? can you grasp that simple "ideology" - I'm standing up against tyranny maybe you will grow some balls and do the same some time. thats what set's us apart from the terrorists..
How do you know that there is torture going on in those camps. You just assume? Or you just don't know and your bias against the US and its policies have led you toward your conclusion... Do you have proof? Why would Bush tell everyone if we were practice breaking your holy "international law" (which only seems to apply to the US)?
Yet again, I don't think you are defending the innocent. I don't think the CIA picks people up for the hell of it. What were you saying everytime an American was taken hostage by a religious nut job and whisked away to his/her private "secret" prison?
I'm guessing that you grew some balls and stood up to the British then? What sets me apart from you is that I actually trust my Government and believe our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I also believe the right people
are (for the most part) in charge and looking out for the best interests of my countrymen and myself.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
thanks for sharing your deep and insightful understanding of the geopolitical situation in the middle east and for illuminating this rather dark and dull thread with the dazzling brightness of your sheer brilliant intellect. Tell me did you type it all yourself or did someone give you some help? you do America proud her heart swells with pride i'm sure..ssj3barua wrote:
FUCK YOU BUSH HATERS, I hope the mujahadeen beheads you fagots
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2006-09-07 16:58:10)
Aardfrith how do you dare to answer that way to a true hero, you never were in the US Marines like Batman said.aardfrith wrote:
So you're happy shipping your fellow soldiers home in boxes because your Commander-in-Chief lied to your government and people about the need to go to war in Iraq? Your brothers and sisters in the military are dying because you went in to fight a war under false pretences and you're applauding the President for it?deeznutz1245 wrote:
I fought for in the US Marines (hhhmmmmm I wonder if you ever did?) and I will exercise it freely. What I did do is openly applaud those who keep us safe every day and approve of their methods no matter the cost. Terrorists being secretly tortured will never hinder our liberties, just theirs, and I am ok with that. And seing how these acts are not being committed on U.S. soil, and are being performed by men who are not members of our armed forces then it is not illegal. People ( like you) forget that CIA, NSA, and FBI are not uniformed members of the armed forces, therefore any act they commit cannot and will not be considered an act of war. Watch Munich....they are paid by the box. So to conclude, fuck terrorists and fuck you for sympathizing for them. You may not have said it but this is war, your with us or them.
Give me strength.
Btw I completely agree with your post dude.
Man, you want to kill the guy with so many hard to spell words? He knows the word fuck, and perhaps two or three more insults. That's all m8.IG-Calibre wrote:
thanks for sharing your deep and insightful understanding of the geopolitical situation in the middle east and for illuminating this rather dark and dull thread with the dazzling brightness of your sheer brilliant intellect. Tell me did you type it all yourself or did someone give you some help? you do America proud her heart swells with pride i'm sure..ssj3barua wrote:
FUCK YOU BUSH HATERS, I hope the mujahadeen beheads you fagots
Really? I hope some day you aren't torn away from your family and held in some prison under god only knows what circumstances, or treated in a manner where you are in constant fear of losing your life, while you are tortured (humanely - see American definition of torture lmao) with no contact with the outside world. you would wake each day with a song in your heart and a smile on your lips grateful that you a "potential mass murder" (cause a CIA man said so thats good enough to merit it) are being kept from doing any harmDBBrinson1 wrote:
No. You missed it, *sigh* again. I was illustrating how you implied that torture was detaining someone with out reason. I didn't and still don't agree.IG-Calibre wrote:
You were defining torture as just brutality like some half wit, and the relevance to the op is I lived through internment where people were snatched by the British and taken to prison camps for little more that being a Catholic where they were tortured until they confessed they were terrorists and committed acts of terrorism which in later years all turned out to be complete bullshit - they would of been sentenced to death only it had been abolished. Further more I'm not defending "terrorists" I'm defending the innocent or are you too thick to understand that? has the penny dropped yet for you? can you grasp that simple "ideology" - I'm standing up against tyranny maybe you will grow some balls and do the same some time. thats what set's us apart from the terrorists..
How do you know that there is torture going on in those camps. You just assume? Or you just don't know and your bias against the US and its policies have led you toward your conclusion... Do you have proof? Why would Bush tell everyone if we were practice breaking your holy "international law" (which only seems to apply to the US)?
Yet again, I don't think you are defending the innocent. I don't think the CIA picks people up for the hell of it. What were you saying everytime an American was taken hostage by a religious nut job and whisked away to his/her private "secret" prison?
I'm guessing that you grew some balls and stood up to the British then? What sets me apart from you is that I actually trust my Government and believe our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I also believe the right people
are (for the most part) in charge and looking out for the best interests of my countrymen and myself.